RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 23, 2015 Bachmann production runs are based more on a firm order book unlike Hornby which tends to speculate what the demand will be. This leads to Hornby with either not enough or too much. The only way there will be excess Bachmann locos is if retailers suddenly find themselves getting mass cancellations due to the unexpected prise increase since announcement. Even here I suspect those cancelling will be balanced out by those sitting and waiting to see the model before they buy. So while we cannot exclude the idea of bargains appearing eventually, it is less likely to happen. Of course if everyone waits for prices to drop to bargain levels, then manufacturers will cease making detailed models and go for design clever. In practice everyone won't. I brought 1 HAL and 1 bil at full discounted price when they came out, but only brought extra BILs when they were put in the bargain bin. Obviously by announcing a model earlier Bachmann will be able to get an idea of firm orders before deciding on the numbers in a production run, but to some extent this relies on them providing a reasonably accurate price when they announce a model. I have certainly no intention of pre-ordering anything until I know pretty well how much it will cost. If the majority of buyers did the same, retailers would not have the pre-orders in the book to help them decide how many they should order so almost certainly they will order less. For oft repeated and therefore easy to find coaches, vans etc. I am unlikely to pre-order anything if the advantage of a pre-order price guarantee is lost. Being abroad postage from the UK is an issue. By pre-ordering I am more than likely to incur a postal charge for each item as they will be sent individually. Wait until its in stock and I can usually combine it with other things, so over time the savings on postage can be considerable. Since Hattons has sent me a number of emails recently advising that the pre-order price cannot be maintained but not offering even a slight (loyalty?) discount compared to the "in stock" price, I will be cancelling all those pre-orders where I still expect to be able to buy the model once it's available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I think I need to explain point 1 better, since I am sure many will not understand how Bachmann UK can commission a model and not know the price - even if it is in US$. The reason for point 1 is that the price quoted for the model may include elements or not. Let us guess that the price is $75. If that is the price delivered to Barwell, all well and good. If however that is the price in China (much more likely) then Kader will organise and charge for export, shipping and customs clearance and these will all be added to the bill. Most likely to be what's known as the Factory Gate Price to which, as I understand it, the Chinese authorities then add taxes and duties which are variable, but the tendency is for them only to vary in one direction. CHRIS LEIGH 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Obviously by announcing a model earlier Bachmann will be able to get an idea of firm orders before deciding on the numbers in a production run, but to some extent this relies on them providing a reasonably accurate price when they announce a model. I have certainly no intention of pre-ordering anything until I know pretty well how much it will cost. If the majority of buyers did the same, retailers would not have the pre-orders in the book to help them decide how many they should order so almost certainly they will order less. For oft repeated and therefore easy to find coaches, vans etc. I am unlikely to pre-order anything if the advantage of a pre-order price guarantee is lost. Being abroad postage from the UK is an issue. By pre-ordering I am more than likely to incur a postal charge for each item as they will be sent individually. Wait until its in stock and I can usually combine it with other things, so over time the savings on postage can be considerable. Since Hattons has sent me a number of emails recently advising that the pre-order price cannot be maintained but not offering even a slight (loyalty?) discount compared to the "in stock" price, I will be cancelling all those pre-orders where I still expect to be able to buy the model once it's available. Unfortunately Bachmann cannot get a firm price when announcing their plans now. Either they estimate demand, and announce things when they are almost ready to be released which can lead to duplication and wrong numbers produced OR they make a stake, tell us the price later which slows down demand. I think we see why their program is now conservative. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2015 Obviously by announcing a model earlier Bachmann will be able to get an idea of firm orders before deciding on the numbers in a production run, but to some extent this relies on them providing a reasonably accurate price when they announce a model. I have certainly no intention of pre-ordering anything until I know pretty well how much it will cost. If the majority of buyers did the same, retailers would not have the pre-orders in the book to help them decide how many they should order so almost certainly they will order less. For oft repeated and therefore easy to find coaches, vans etc. I am unlikely to pre-order anything if the advantage of a pre-order price guarantee is lost. Being abroad postage from the UK is an issue. By pre-ordering I am more than likely to incur a postal charge for each item as they will be sent individually. Wait until its in stock and I can usually combine it with other things, so over time the savings on postage can be considerable. Since Hattons has sent me a number of emails recently advising that the pre-order price cannot be maintained but not offering even a slight (loyalty?) discount compared to the "in stock" price, I will be cancelling all those pre-orders where I still expect to be able to buy the model once it's available. As it appears that Hattons are simply guessing the prices they are advertising for some Bachmann items (note the ludicrous example of the Brighton atlantic) it should hardly come as a surprise - especially in an era of rising prices - that they are 'under-guessing'. Presumably they are doing it to encourage pre-orders in which case when firm prices eventually emerge they should hardly be surprised if orders evaporate or that people pre-order from their local model shops who offer far more realistic estimates, including 'price TBA' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawyermodels Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Had my rep in yesterday and he said they are in the country and ready for dispatch this week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebell Model Railway Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Kernow has had theirs saw the Facebook post this afternoon but no LBSC version yet, they have the others... so they are just arriving. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatWesternFan220 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Can someone post pictures of the Southern green example when they get the chance? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Can someone post pictures of the Southern green example when they get the chance? As soon as Rails announce they have stock I will pop down and pick mine up and take some photos - a belated birthday present. I'm sure that someone will beat me to it though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatWesternFan220 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 There's some up on ebay already. WOW! Already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Can someone post pictures of the Southern green example when they get the chance? Don't have any pics I can post but I can tell you that you won't be disappointed. The SR livery is beautifully done and it'll pull anything reasonable that you put behind it. CHRIS LEIGH 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 All this guff about the LBSC one being a sell out, millionaire making model... The previous pregroupingmodels (L&Y, GCR locos etc) were limited editions of preserved examples which have been well documented in preservation, the SECR c class although not limited was a special livery of a loco which sits in the heart of many modellers and resides in an affluent part of the country where many modellers often see the real thing, which unlike the others.. Still chuffs about most weekends still. This LBSC one is not preserved, not a limited edition and not one too many relate too (even the preserved E4 has (read used to a long time back) wear a different variation of this livery (carrying a name for a start)). I'm sure it's a lovely model, I have one on order, but when it arrives it'll be out of its box on a branch line with some terriers (which too aren't worth a million and are also in LBSC livery, and most it them preserved and operational to). I agree to a certain extent here, I don't think that this model will quite have the selling power as 592 did. Here's my reasoning, bearing in mind that I think only a very small proportion of people in the market for this model will want it because it exactly fits their era and area of operation: 1. Whilst it is a lovely novelty to have an umber livery, its not as pretty and complex a livery as the SECR livery. 2. As pointed out above, the umber offering is not of a preserved locomotive, whereas the Southern liveried version is. B473 may steal some of the thunder away from the LBSCR livery, especially for those who can only afford one E4 and have to choose between a locomotive that they have ridden behind, or a novelty livery. 3. There is no matching stock RTR for the locomotive in this livery - 592 has the Birdcages on the way, and can at least realistically run with Mk1s, Maunsells, Pullmans and Bulleids for the time being. B473 can realistically run in front of Hornby's Maunsells, as well as the aforementioned preservation-era carriages. They would have also been seen with Birdcage sets in Southern days. I do however feel that it will still fly off the shelves purely because it is something different. I worry that, whilst not a special edition, it may be released in similar numbers to the C class and as such will sell out. Perhaps not as fast as the C class, but in a year or so it will be commanding very high prices on eBay. I can only afford one E4 at this time and have opted for B473, assuming that I can get my hands on one next week, as I have always collected Bluebell locos, am very fond of this particular locomotive and have some matching stock to run it with. I have to accept that this means I will probably miss out on the LBSCR version. I'm just glad that Bachmann opted against a lined early emblem example, as this would have made the decision even harder! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebell Model Railway Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I also agree Chris, I have said to a few within my own model group, I don't think the pre-grouping livery LBSC version will sell out like 592 did in a matter of a week or 2? Although I have both the LBSC and SR version on order, they are both nice models, but I don't expect them to sell out quickly and I think that's mainly down to the price increase people cancelling orders ect... and seeing if the price comes down in a month or 2.But we shall see, sadly where I have ordered from haven't got them yet, and it doesn't look like the LBSC ones are here yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatWesternFan220 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I received an email from Rails today, "I am writing in regards to the above pre-order you have with us for the 30-525. We have now go a price for this item and are just contacting you to confirm this is ok, this item is now £195.46.If you could get in contact with us to confirm this is ok we can then process and dispatch your order when this comes in, The latest date we have got for this item is April/May time." £195.46 FOR A TANK ENGINE?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I received an email from Rails today, "I am writing in regards to the above pre-order you have with us for the 30-525. We have now go a price for this item and are just contacting you to confirm this is ok, this item is now £195.46. If you could get in contact with us to confirm this is ok we can then process and dispatch your order when this comes in, The latest date we have got for this item is April/May time." £195.46 FOR A TANK ENGINE?! Seems like a typo as their website has all versions for £93.46, suggest contact them by phone to get your order corrected Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I received an email from Rails today, "I am writing in regards to the above pre-order you have with us for the 30-525. We have now go a price for this item and are just contacting you to confirm this is ok, this item is now £195.46. If you could get in contact with us to confirm this is ok we can then process and dispatch your order when this comes in, The latest date we have got for this item is April/May time." £195.46 FOR A TANK ENGINE?! I wrote the review this week. The RRP is £99.95. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 27, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Had the Bluebell E4 still been in LBSCR Umber and Bachmann had produced that version, then I think we might have seen a C Class 592 scenario again - although perhaps not if Bachmann had upped the production quantity in the expectation of higher sales. My 473 is on the way. Very impressed by Kernow MRC (as usual). They emailed to advise that they couldn't maintain their pre-order price but nevertheless offered me a discount compared to their new price of £93.95, so there is still an incentive to pre-order from them. I wonder if anyone else is doing this? Edited March 27, 2015 by brushman47544 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservationModeller Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I received an email from Rails today, "I am writing in regards to the above pre-order you have with us for the 30-525. We have now go a price for this item and are just contacting you to confirm this is ok, this item is now £195.46. If you could get in contact with us to confirm this is ok we can then process and dispatch your order when this comes in, The latest date we have got for this item is April/May time." £195.46 FOR A TANK ENGINE?! 30-525 is the Shakespeare Express train pack, as opposed to an E4... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lee Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Quoted from today's Kernow newsletter:- Our Bachmann delivery this week has the E4's and numerous wagons to choose from: They only show the green and blacks ones, not the LBSC option. No sign of it when I looked at the Hattons website. (I have a pre-order for a green one from Hattons.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimHearne Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Quoted from today's Kernow newsletter:- They only show the green and blacks ones, not the LBSC option. No sign of it when I looked at the Hattons website. (I have a pre-order for a green one from Hattons.) I had a pre-order for an Early black E4 with Hattons. I contacted Hattons this morning when the Kernow newsletter told me Kernow had some in stock. They couldn't tell me when they were getting stock, or if they would be getting enough stock to cover all pre-orders. So i bought one from Kernow (same price) and cancelled the Hattons one. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted March 27, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 27, 2015 Most of the major box shifters seem to have the BR and SR ones in except Hattons oddly and that is who I have two pre-orders with. Bit worrying.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tim Hall Posted March 27, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2015 Hmm, Hattons have been late with a couple recently.......got my J15 locally before they had it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 27, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2015 Sorry to hear of your anxiety but the obvious course of action is to look elsewhere and avoid pre ordering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR Dave Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Rails don't seem to have them yet. Strange that the LBSCR doesn't seem to be available anywhere yet either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatWesternFan220 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 30-525 is the Shakespeare Express train pack, as opposed to an E4... My apologies. It was early in the morning and I couldn't read the email very clearly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil gollin Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 . Oh ! Are Hornby playing their 2-Bil (and others) games again ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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