Washout at Dawlish

[Zomboid]

Obviously it was all hot air.

I doubt the Dartmoor route if it existed would be an option at present either, though.

[eastwestdivide]

Here we go again. https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/dawlish-sea-wall-damaged-storm-1285826

 

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/government-offers-no-miracle-cure-1277575 I vividly recall the fishy-named Secretary of State stating to camera that there would be a £2B sum of money available to ensure 'resilience' of the line at Dawlish. Also the previous Prime Minister stated to camera on site that 'whatever it will take' will be done to assure the future of the line.

 

All political windbaggery.

 

From Network Rail via the quoted "devonlive" story:

 

Following visual inspections this morning we can confirm that the railway between Dawlish and Dawlish Warren sustained damage last night as a result of Storm Emma. There is no structural damage to the sea wall, and the integrity of the railway itself has not been damaged, which is testimony to the quality of the strengthening works Network Rail delivered in 2014.

 

However, 10-15m of fencing and associated coping stones has been damaged, some of which is now lying on the railway. This needs to be made safe and Herras temporary fencing put in place.

 

A substantial amount of ballast has been washed across the track along a 150m length of railway. Network Rail Engineers are now working to remove and replace the ballast.

[brushman47544]

Obviously it was all hot air.

I doubt the Dartmoor route if it existed would be an option at present either, though.

 

At least you could snowplough that...

[Gwiwer]

The Dartmoor route would surely be closed by thick snow right now.  It lies in the midst of the Met. Office's Red Alert warning area through which all travel should be avoided.  Yes it could be ploughed but only up to a point.  Given that it also included one of the highest summits in England and that Dartmoor is notorious for foul weather I suggest that even had any trains been able to reach Exeter or Plymouth they would have got no further.  In fact most trains were suspended throughout the Red Alert area before trouble hit.  Which is more than can be said for those SWR customers who became trapped, through no fault of the operator, overnight on trains stalled in snow and ice on the Southampton - Bournemouth and Salisbury - Exeter routes.  Even then SWR had posted "Do not travel" advice long before those passengers chose to disregard it.

[locoholic]

Which is more than can be said for those SWR customers who became trapped, through no fault of the operator, overnight on trains stalled in snow and ice on the Southampton - Bournemouth and Salisbury - Exeter routes.  Even then SWR had posted "Do not travel" advice long before those passengers chose to disregard it.

You do seem to be saying that there are some trains which passengers should not board! Do you think SWR was reckless in running the train that got stuck?

[jamie92208]

Perhaps this is the time to send a class 802 along that stretch to give it a good warranty test.

 

Jamie

[Gwiwer]

You do seem to be saying that there are some trains which passengers should not board! Do you think SWR was reckless in running the train that got stuck?

Absolutely not. The advice was just that and not an instruction. SWR will have been monitoring weather conditions closely and if there had been a reason to suspend service that would have happened.

 

The full version of events which caused overnight stranding to some trains and delayed others (SWR and GWR) by several hours will emerge but for now we have to understand that already severe weather might have become locally worse and resulted in a train losing power. Once it stopped and others stopped behind the severity of conditions likely prevented it from powering and moving again.

 

In this weather there have been many loss-of-power incidents. Most of them only momentarily or occasioning slight delays of a few minutes at worst while action was taken to restore and proceed.

[Gary H]

Perhaps this is the time to send a class 802 along that stretch to give it a good warranty test.

 

Jamie

Funnily enough, an 802 left Plymouth in the London direction just after dinner time on Thursday Ironically "escaping" all the tide and snow-related problems by just 3 or 4 hours!!

Its as if it was saying "I gota get outa here!"  

[Re6/6]

Just a thought....certainly if the Okehampton route was in place there would be no way through these last couple of days, but a snow event like now is very rare hereabouts. Southerly and southeasterly gales with accompanying rough seas and spring tides are not rare at all.

 

However often the SW Peninsula lot speak up about it all we seem to get is duplicitous claptrap from those in position to do something about it.

 

 

...Oh and what about  the MP Anne-Marie Morris (she of the whip withdrawn) the MP for Dawlish. I don't think that we've heard a peep from her since the re-opening in 2014.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Re6/6

[corneliuslundie]

If the two politicians made statements on camera presumably recordings exist and could be used as evidence of the statements, in court if necessary.

Jonathan 

[rodent279]

The 1936 inland route involved 4 tunnels totalling 2 miles in length so if they follow a similar line for a new approach it won't be cheap - and that's without considering the change from what was then a route almost entirely through open country to one which would now involve at least some areas which have been developed. The total length of the 1936 route was 8m 61 ch although if the 1937 variant were to be adopted it would rise to 13m 09ch but that would, I reckon, definitely involve residential property demolition at the Exminster end. A quick look at Google maps suggests that if the 1936 route were to be adopted it would go through an area which has become considerably built up on the inland side of Teignmouth in particular.

 

As for an idea of cost HS1 cost =£84million per mile, HS2 is estimated to be likely to cost =£116 million per mile although these are very broad brush comparisons and could be misleading for all sorts of reasons. The 1936 scheme envisaged retaining the coastal route although the possibility of a station on the new line to serve Teignmouth was considered. Incidentally the 1936 route was 69ch shorter than the existing coastal route - any deviation around what has become built up inland of Teignmouth will either increase the length of result in more tunnelling.

 

So in other words building a new inland route is likely to be neither cheap nor - probably - wholly welcomed in certain parts of Teignmouth (if nowhere else), and it certainly won't be completed by the next winter storm season.

Is there an online map of the 1936/37 route proposals?

[bike2steam]

Sad they closed the Teign Valley line.

[Dunsignalling]

According to the local news report (BBC Spotlight) a few minutes ago, NR have confirmed there is no structural damage at Dawlish but state that removal of the debris that has been spread over the line, including a granite coping stone weighing at least a ton (origin not revealed) will take until tomorrow morning.

 

John

Edited March 2, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

Sad they closed the Teign Valley line.

Even when it was there, it could only take a fraction of the main line traffic when diversions became necessary. 

 

John

[Chris M]

If the line along the sea wall was ever closed I would miss it more than any other line the whole world.  

[olivegreen]

We have been round and round the subject of alternative routes for the seaside stretch between Exeter and Newton Abbot many times.  The simple, though rather unpalatable facts are that an alternative route is unlikely to be built in the lifetime of any of us writing on this forum, I'd suggest, however much the local media and population protest.

Once elected by his or her constituency, an MP's loyalty is to parliament, not directly to his or her electors: given that, and that public money would be at stake for building such an alternative route, which would need parliamentary authority, and given also the percentage of the UK population that lives (in railway terms) south west of Exeter (I don't know what it is, but it is not very high), I doubt that any MP - even a West Country one - would vote for massive expenditure on something that inconveniences that relatively small population for just a few days a year on average. Especially when enormous amounts of taxpayers' money is already pretty much committed to other railway projects that should serve a far higher percentage of the population - HS2 being one, of course.

This is not a political comment, just a fact of governmental life: it is less onerous to accept slings and arrows from the locals, and pay the repair bills, than to vote for new build. Which is why we should continue to expect drivel and platitudes from MPs!

 

 

(Edit: typos - as usual!)

Edited March 2, 2018 by olivegreen

[Siberian Snooper]

If the line along the sea wall was ever closed I would miss it more than any other line the whole world.

 

Yeah, it's the only one we've got.

[brianusa]

Politicians are notorious for saying one thing to calm the moment but a moment later have forgotten all about it.

 

Brian.

[APOLLO]

In Japan they built a new major two runway airport in the sea. I'm sure that an adequate sea wall can be built at Dawlish.

 

 

Brit15

[Dunsignalling]

We have been round and round the subject of alternative routes for the seaside stretch between Exeter and Newton Abbot many times.  The simple, though rather unpalatable facts are that an alternative route is unlikely to be built in the lifetime of any of us writing on this forum, I'd suggest, however much the local media and population protest.

Once elected by his or her constituency, an MP's loyalty is to parliament, not directly to his or her electors: given that, and that public money would be at stake for building such an alternative route, which would need parliamentary authority, and given also the percentage of the UK population that lives (in railway terms) south west of Exeter (I don't know what it is, but it is not very high), I doubt that any MP - even a West Country one - would vote for massive expenditure on something that inconveniences that relatively small population for just a few days a year on average. Especially when enormous amounts of taxpayers' money is already pretty much committed to other railway projects that should serve a far higher percentage of the population - HS2 being one, of course.

This is not a political comment, just a fact of governmental life: it is less onerous to accept slings and arrows from the locals, and pay the repair bills, than to vote for new build. Which is why we should continue to expect drivel and platitudes from MPs!

 

 

(Edit: typos - as usual!)

If the projections for sea level rise over the next half-century turn out to be accurate, defending the coastal line will become next to impossible anyway.

 

More seriously, many of those living along it will find themselves displaced, too.

 

HS2 is, in truth, primarily about extending the magic 100-minute London commuter belt a hundred miles further north so any bleating about what it costs will be ignored.

 

John

[Re6/6]

https://www.dawlishbeach.com/2018/03/dawlish-weather-and-tides-for-02-02-2018/

[eastwestdivide]

Seems to be at least partly open now - according to realtimetrains at http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C51353/2018/03/03/advanced

today's 0540 Plymouth-Padd got through, but there are lots of cancellations later.

The 0928 Exeter St Davids to Penzance (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C51831/2018/03/03/advanced) has just set off, passing Starcross as I write this.

Edit: that last one lost over 20 mins between Exeter and Teignmouth, but got there nonetheless.

Edited March 3, 2018 by eastwestdivide

[Dunsignalling]

They appear to be doing better than some.

 

From what I've been able to glean from Open Train Times, it doesn't look like SWR will be attempting to run anything west of Salisbury until after lunch.

 

John

Edited March 3, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Gwiwer]

Up line open under caution and pilotman working I believe. Both were signalled for bi-directional working some years back to allow for just such an event as this while passing some traffic

[Kris]

In Japan they built a new major two runway airport in the sea. I'm sure that an adequate sea wall can be built at Dawlish.

 

 

Brit15

 

 

With enough money almost anything is possible. 

Looking at where this airport is, I suspect that it does not have to deal with waves of the size of power of those seen regularly at Dawlish, let alone the exceptional sized waves that are seen when trains are cancelled.