The Official Rapido APT-E Thread

[experimental]

E trains last powered trip to York, the day I saw her for the first time and it changed my life.

 

Ive got E train in my bloody now. LOL!!!!

 

Interesting that both power cars only have one wiper, normally PC1 had 2, PC2 had 1.

Edited June 28, 2014 by experimental

[Mr_Tilt]

 

Interesting that both power cars only have one wiper, normally PC1 had 2, PC2 had 1.

 

PC1's second wiper got smacked by a bird on one of the very last test track runs and it broke off, but I thought we'd fixed it before the York run. Seemingly not so.

[Southernman46]

It's 40 years old and it still looks so cool - what price a run on HS1 to see just how fast it could really go....

Edited June 28, 2014 by Southernman46

[Steve-e]

Does anyone know the overall length the model will be for the 4 car set? Just so I can start thinking about siding lengths.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Steve

[aptp]

E trains last powered trip to York, the day I saw her for the first time and it changed my life.

 

Hi Paul

 

did you know E-Train was going to the NRM that day or was it pure luck or fate that you chose the day to go train watching?

 

Rob

www.APT-P.com

Edited June 28, 2014 by aptp

[RedgateModels]

Wonder if it will fit on Summat Colliery?

[Colin_McLeod]

Competition Time.

 

How many times did Andy Y say "Yep" in the APT-E video?

 

 

 

Seriously though, it was a great 3/4hr's viewing.

[sandwich station]

Here is the other BTF about E train, and the best of the time.

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f16_1314673094

 

Enjoy

 

Thanks for that experimental, interesting short film.

[Ian J.]

I've just watched the video. The content, great; the presentation, not so. There were times when I couldn't make out what the interviewees were saying, and obviously there were times when the unattended(?) camera's auto-focus was wrong. Also, people walking in front of camera and arseing about in the background is not good. Some temp barriers like those at museums or red carpet events could have been put up with notices stuck to them to keep people back. So for an event such as this one I would have expected something a little more polished. With just one additional person as camera operator / sound technician, a few wireless tie-pin mics and maybe an additional light or two plus reflectors, it could have looked much more professional. I realise of course that such things cost money, but it would have improved the feel of the announcement no end if a bit more thought and resource had gone into the filming of the interviews.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Ian J.

[Miss Prism]

Given the body tilt angle is to be derived solely from track radius, it would seem the only way this could be implemented could be from the rotation of the bogie(s) relative to the body. Here is the bogie yaw to track radius relationship for the power car. I've not included the asymptote on the right-hand side of the plot, and it will be interesting to read at what radius the model's tilting mechanism 'kicks in'.

[JSpencer]

Andy Ys presentation is just an interview. It was probably just Andy, tripod and camera.

I think it would be a bit much to expect television standard considering it is not actually going on tele. (If it were I retract the argument).

 

BTW Jason, those coffee table books also got translated into other languages. I have French versions of these books showing the APT-E as well.

Likewise I would echo others here in that having the interior likes DCC controlled would be a nice additional touch (though not vital), as most Brits are now used to seeing 4 car set controlled by one chip managing the interior likes as well. (Alternatively the circuit could have a motion sensor, that switches them on as soon as the train starts moving and only switches off again if the train stops for say 5 minutes).

Edited June 29, 2014 by JSpencer

[Mr_Tilt]

Does anyone know the overall length the model will be for the 4 car set? Just so I can start thinking about siding lengths.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Steve

 

If it's exactly 1/76 scale, and it seems it may be, it'll be 1153 mm long. That's scaled down from the real thing's dimensions.

 

I've just watched the video. The content, great; the presentation, not so. There were times when I couldn't make out what the interviewees were saying, and obviously there were times when the unattended(?) camera's auto-focus was wrong. Also, people walking in front of camera and arseing about in the background is not good. Some temp barriers like those at museums or red carpet events could have been put up with notices stuck to them to keep people back. So for an event such as this one I would have expected something a little more polished. With just one additional person as camera operator / sound technician, a few wireless tie-pin mics and maybe an additional light or two plus reflectors, it could have looked much more professional. I realise of course that such things cost money, but it would have improved the feel of the announcement no end if a bit more thought and resource had gone into the filming of the interviews.

 

I feel you're being more than harsh there.

 

The background noise level in the Shildon Loco Shed is horrendous, especially when the 'Station Announcer' does her thing. There were only two guys from BRM there and they were both working flat out to cover the event. Plus everyone and their mother was galloping around the place and we'd have needed a large team of crowd controllers to keep them in place. All the barriers that were available were being used to keep the aforesaid people (and their mothers...) from the 3D scanning area anyway.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Mr_Tilt

[Ian J.]

...I feel you're being more than harsh there...

 

 

Agreed, but ever since RMweb moved over to BRM, I'm less inclined to be forgiving. When Andy Y did these things as an independent, I had no problem with it being one man and an auto camera, but BRM are a professional company and can do better. And it's not like there would need to be a whole team of people for the filming part, it just needed one body more for the technical aspects, and a preparedness to do things with a little more planning.

 

The background noise level in the Shildon Loco Shed is horrendous, especially when the 'Station Announcer' does her thing. There were only two guys from BRM there and they were both working flat out to cover the event. Plus everyone and their mother was galloping around the place and we'd have needed a large team of crowd controllers to keep them in place. All the barriers that were available were being used to keep the aforesaid people (and their mothers...) from the 3D scanning area anyway.

 

 

Re the noise in the shed, the tie pin mics would be for each person, so that would help to reduce the background noise. Just the one mic on the camera doesn't stand a chance in such an environment. It perhaps could have been filmed away from the APT-E's nose, which while I can understand the desire to have it in shot, it wasn't absolutely necessary. Jason's interview was in a better, but less iconic, location, it just needed a little more light and someone on the camera to 'react' to Jason's trademark enthusiastic animated delivery.

[durham light infantry]

Agreed, but ever since RMweb moved over to BRM, I'm less inclined to be forgiving. When Andy Y did these things as an independent, I had no problem with it being one man and an auto camera, but BRM are a professional company and can do better. And it's not like there would need to be a whole team of people for the filming part, it just needed one body more for the technical aspects, and a preparedness to do things with a little more planning.

 

 

 

 

Re the noise in the shed, the tie pin mics would be for each person, so that would help to reduce the background noise. Just the one mic on the camera doesn't stand a chance in such an environment. It perhaps could have been filmed away from the APT-E's nose, which while I can understand the desire to have it in shot, it wasn't absolutely necessary. Jason's interview was in a better, but less iconic, location, it just needed a little more light and someone on the camera to 'react' to Jason's trademark enthusiastic animated delivery.

Just being objective. Where is the video footage from Railway Modeller, Hornby Magazine and Model Rail?

 

Mike

[Andy Y]

Andy Ys presentation is just an interview. It was probably just Andy, tripod and camera.

I think it would be a bit much to except television standard considering it is not actually going on tele. (If it were I retract the argument).

 

 

That's it; spot on - apart from the final scenes where Chris helped out after my SLR was having a disagreement with SD cards over buffering.

 

Agreed, but ever since RMweb moved over to BRM, I'm less inclined to be forgiving. When Andy Y did these things as an independent, I had no problem with it being one man and an auto camera, but BRM are a professional company and can do better. And it's not like there would need to be a whole team of people for the filming part, it just needed one body more for the technical aspects, and a preparedness to do things with a little more planning.

 

 

Ben Jones was doing separate features, which should be available to BRM readers at a future point, with Chris doing the videoing (with a camera 6 times the price of the one I was using and proper mics etc) whilst I was doing longer pieces with folk. So, in total you'll have a lot more material from two approaches; Mike's point above is pertinent.

 

I know I'm no video whizz and I know the equipment's a compromise but I felt it was important to do it, a one off chance.

[toboldlygo]

It's so hard to resist isn't it!!!

 

The lure to the Dark-side is too strong...

 

The APT-E does have a certain Star Wars look about it.

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

I happen to agree with Ian J above, not because I would expect a full camera crew to be deployed to an event like this, but because the issues identified are potentially avoidable.

 

The autofocus "hunting" - IIRC a factor in the first interview with Jason Schron - can be avoided by disabling it, focusing manually and then ensuring the participants stay relatively still.

 

Poor sound quality is harder, however careful selection of interview position can help here.

 

People walking around the edge of the shot aren't an issue - after all, they were really there and are part of the story - but if they suddenly appear in the corner of the frame it is distracting.  The way to avoid this to get some shots that actually feature people walking around just before or after doing the main interview, then when editing down the material to intercut one or two of these shots into the interview near the beginning (ideally when Jason is referring to "how excited everyone is" or similar) and it will introduce them to the viewer so they don't jar when they appear in the background....

 

I also disagree that just because the filming is "for the internet" it doesn't need to be the best quality possible.  Increasingly the internet is the place people go to for any form of content, and they expect it to be as good as they find elsewhere. 

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Ben A

[Steve-e]

Not trying to "embrasser leur derrière” for the French Canadians or “Kiss eu gwaelod” For the Welsh Canadians but……

 

Personally I have enjoyed the coverage so far from both Rapido and RMweb I like the relaxed, non-fussy crazy approach, they have even mentioned rivet counting in an enjoyable way which they would not have been able to convey in a written article or at a sit down, hands glued to the table type interview.

 

Yes the sound does die in the second section but can be rectified by…. erm… turning it up… it did come across as an informal video taken on the day which I feel suits the Rapido/RMWeb style. I'm sure one of the things mentioned when BRM took over RMWeb was that things wouldn't change and personally have seen more of an influence in BRM By RMWeb than of BRM on RMweb.

 

If this is the way forward for Rapido, RMweb and BRM then it is good for the future of model railway, I’m sure if some Xbox/PS4 Kid was to browse YouTube and come across the video he may stop, look and like the crazy Canadian guy enthusing about a cool looking train and his / her perception of Railway Modellers/Modelling changes for the better then that’s great.

 

Also from a personal point I feel more comfortable as a modeller with this approach of openness and engagement to give a sense of involvement with the final product.

 

The world is changing…..  choice is good …. Involved choice is better….

Edited June 29, 2014 by Nes

[Gerald Henriksen]

I happen to agree with Ian J above, not because I would expect a full camera crew to be deployed to an event like this, but because the issues identified are potentially avoidable.

Not with a one man crew using non-professional equipment in the time constrained circumstances in the environment Andy had.  It was a busy day for everyone with lots of things to be done, the fact that they had time to do an interview was a bonus for us.

 

the autofocus "hunting" - IIRC a factor in the first interview with Jason Schron - can be avoided by disabling it, focusing manually and then ensuring the participants stay relatively still.

 

Andy is busy doing the interview, not making sure everybody stands still so they stay in frame and focus, with the added complexity of taking advantage of the APT-E expert walking past and agreeing to join the interview.

 

Poor sound quality is harder, however careful selection of interview position can help here.

 

You are in a big, echo filled, box with announcements, general background noise from people talking, and other noises that are louder than normal thanks to the surroundings. There was no position inside that building, and in particular no location with APT-E as a background, that wouldn't have the noise issues.

 

I also disagree that just because the filming is "for the internet" it doesn't need to be the best quality possible.  Increasingly the internet is the place people go to for any form of content, and they expect it to be as good as they find elsewhere.

 

They must be disappointed then, because there is a lot of stuff on the Internet that is orders of magnitude worse that what you people are complaining about.

 

Personally, I am grateful Andy took time out of his day to record the video at all, and I certainly hope that he will continue to provide us with this bonus content that is almost certainly beyond his job description. 

[Ian J.]

As I said initially, all of the those issues could have been dealt with a little bit of advance planning and one extra bod and a few bits of equipment.

 

I was thinking about how I might approach filming in an informal manner but retaining as much quality as possible, and it occurred to me that Jason's style of delivery would suit a handheld camera that can react a la the now departed TV chef Keith Floyd and his cameraman 'Clive' (and others)...

 

Please note: I'm not having a go at Andy Y here. He's done a service in getting those interviews and the content was on the mark. My gripe is about how it could have been better with a bit more forethought.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Ian J.

[PaulRhB]

Personally I think the CGI explosions were a bit poor and with a green screen and gimball mount it could have been made to look like the APTE was restored . . . 

[Andy Y]

If we were deploying extra resources to do a couple of interviews I'd get a better interviewer for a start.

 

Mind you I do still think about the two cameramen, I think it was four sound guys, a couple of directorial sorts doubled up with a team of clipboard holders, one of whom was probably responsible for making sure everyone had a hi-vis on (for at least half a day) to get a couple of minutes (at most) footage of one of the A4s being positioned on the turntable at the NRM for BBC's One Show last year. Due to the 'unique way the BBC is funded' half of our street paid for that I think; OK it's a small street but it was a bit of overkill.

[Ian J.]

A full crew wouldn't be necessary for simple interviews and the BBC were obviously doing 'more' with a programme like 'The One Show' than you were with Jason and the other interviewees. By having someone to look after the camera and sound, it would have freed you up to concentrate on the questions and interacting with the interviewees, and allow the technician to cover the other bases.

 

Edit: my 'Agree' was for the BBC paragraph and not your first line, btw.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Ian J.

[RedgateModels]

If it's exactly 1/76 scale, and it seems it may be, it'll be 1153 mm long. That's scaled down from the real thing's dimensions.

 

Good, I make it less than 4ft then, so it will fit on the sector plate - should raise some eyebrows on a 1958 themed Colliery

[Phil Parker]

It's easy to say that another person and a bit more kit would have resulted in higher production values - they would. But who's going to pay for that extra person and more kit? As Andy has mentioned, the will be a better quality video from BRM but it's likely to be on a DVD attached to a magazine you will have to pay for.

 

I saw some of the shooting as I was running around with my MREmag hat on talking to people. The place was fairly chaotic and the big Shildon shed noisy. What you got is a film shot on a shoestring to share the feel of the event. Should it have been binned for quality issues? By the sound of it, yes, if anything less than broadcast quality isn't acceptable anyway. That video is the cherry on the cake of the RMweb coverage - far from essential but (IMHO) worth a go.

 

Shooting BBC quality video is tough and expensive. A series of wobbly camera Floyd will cost as much as running BRM RMweb and most of Warners for a year! All that casual stuff is the result of lots of planning and plenty of re-takes. To give you an idea of this, my section of the August issue BRM DVD lasts 9 minutes and took or an hour to shoot with minimal re-takes.

 

Personally, I hate wobbly camera stuff. You can't ask for more equipment and dispense with the tripod. At the end of the day, no-one was forced to watch and unlike the BBC or any DVD production, doing so cost you nothing.