Ozexpatriate Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) A recently departed mate of mine used to rib me mercilessly saying "How on earth did they manage to come up with a ratio of 4mm to the foot, mixing two different measuring systems up!" I'd never really thought about the craziness of it before that. I guess it was much more fun than using the ratio 1:76?Indeed, and 3.5mm to the foot is arguably even worse as a mix of units. At least American O scale was 1:48 (a quarter inch to the foot) and so is at least in a consistent set of units. But 0 scale / 7mm is 1:43.5 or thereabouts. There are certain things you only understand once you've lived in a place for a long time.Two (perhaps three, or four or more) countries, separated by a common language (and measurement units). What I find most ironic is how Americans like to celebrate their independence of "all things British" yet cleave so dearly to Imperial units (sort of, until we start talking about liquid measures*) more than any other country in the world - Britain included. * What's a pint again, precisely? Edited July 20, 2014 by Ozexpatriate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted July 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 20, 2014 I just love reading the measurements in British layout articles... "Well, I used 25mm x 100mm timber for the baseboards..." Mate, we call that a 1x4. "..covered with a sheet of 610x2440mm plywood on top..." And we call that a 2x8 foot sheet. -Jason What I can't find out is whether a 25 by 100 mm board is that or 19 mm by 94 mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 What I can't find out is whether a 25 by 100 mm board is that or 19 mm by 94 mm.In the US: A 1x4 is ¾" × 3½" (19 × 89 mm) A 2x4 is 1½" × 3½" (38 × 89 mm). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 87004 Posted July 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 20, 2014 What I find most ironic is how Americans like to celebrate their independence of "all things British" yet cleave so dearly to Imperial units (sort of, until we start talking about liquid measures*) more than any other country in the world - Britain included. * What's a pint again, precisely? From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallon The gallon currently has one definition in the imperial system, and two definitions (liquid and dry) in the US customary system. Historically, there were many definitions and redefinitions. The imperial gallon The imperial (UK) gallon, now defined as exactly 4.54609 litres, is used in some Commonwealth countries and was originally based on the volume of 10 pounds (approximately 4.54 kg) of water at 62 °F (17 °C). The imperial fluid ounce is defined as 1⁄160 of an imperial gallon; there are four quarts in a gallon, two pints in a quart, and 20 fluid ounces in an imperial pint. The US liquid gallon The US gallon, which is equal to exactly 3.785411784 litres, is legally defined as 231 cubic inches.[1][2] A US liquid gallon of water weighs about 8.34 pounds or 3.78 kilograms at 62 °F (17 °C), making it about 16.6% lighter than the imperial gallon. There are four quarts in a gallon, two pints in a quart and 16 fluid ounces in a US pint, which makes a US gallon equal to 128 fl. oz. In order to overcome the effects of expansion and contraction with temperature when using a gallon to specify a quantity of material for purposes of trade, it is common to define the temperature at which the material will occupy the specified volume. For example, the volume of petroleum products[3] and alcoholic beverages[4] are both referenced to 60 °F (16 °C) in government regulations. The US dry gallon This gallon is one-eighth of a US Winchester bushel of 2,150.42 cubic inches; it is therefore equal to exactly 268.8025 cubic inches or 4.40488377086 L. The US dry gallon is not used in commerce, and is not listed in the relevant statute, which jumps from the dry quart to the peck.[5] My brain hurts! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 In the US: A 1x4 is ¾" × 3½" (19 × 89 mm) A 2x4 is 1½" × 3½" (38 × 89 mm). In UK, my timber supplier understands imperial, and knows what 4 by 2 is. Traditionally that is sawn size, so if you ask for 4 by 2 planed, it will be smaller. Changing to metric was a pretty crappy idea, in some ways. Bricks, most things are smaller. During 'the change' you had adverts saying something like ' We've gone metric, our 4 by 2's are now sold in 10ft lengths'... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 On the old Fraser Canyon 'HO' layout at Egham club we had one guy who was a flight engineer. We had to have all the switches upside down (up for on) because that's the way they are on a Boeing flightdeck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Indeed, and 3.5mm to the foot is arguably even worse as a mix of units. At least American O scale was 1:48 (a quarter inch to the foot) and so is at least in a consistent set of units. But 0 scale / 7mm is 1:43.5 or thereabouts. Two (perhaps three, or four or more) countries, separated by a common language (and measurement units). What I find most ironic is how Americans like to celebrate their independence of "all things British" yet cleave so dearly to Imperial units (sort of, until we start talking about liquid measures*) more than any other country in the world - Britain included. * What's a pint again, precisely? Not sure how Jason will feel about being obliquely described as 'American'. Canada does not cleave to the imperial system. It has the same awful, half-baked halfway system that we do. Worse in that their roads and speed limits etc are all Kilometres yet the railway is still in miles because it has to be. Everything was measured and marked in miles and you have locations that are called things like Ten Mile where changing it would not only be ludicrous but would miss the point entirely. I'm reminded of Ronnie Barker's famous lecture on metrication. I recall during the struggle to cope with metrication, going to our local timber yard to buy some 2 by 1. The guy in the office carefully converted it to metric and gave me the docket to take out into the yard. The guy with handsaw studied it for a couple of minutes, gave me a sideways look, and said "So you want 2 by 1 then?" CHRIS LEIGH 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted July 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 20, 2014 . Bricks, most things are smaller. Imperial bricks are still available. I know, I had some building work done on my 1960 house and the builder took a sample to the brick library and came back with something that at first glance cannot by seen to be any different. (the length is slightly shorter, height and depth are the same.) Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
autocoach Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 California tried to go metric under the first 8 year reign of governor Jerry Brown. He has wisely avoided it during his current second reign. There are still a few old highway mileage signs that tell you it is 500 km still to go to to Los Angeles around I believe. I think having large numbers for measurements sort of puts the US mind off track. It is certainly mentally discouraging when driving to LA. It appears lands with larger distances need larger units of measurement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted July 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 20, 2014 Half baked works well in the UK Metric fuel consumption is absurd and creates confusion where Audi released the A1 in responce to the V6 Clio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Clarke 1980 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I shall be ordering mine in the next week or so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted July 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2014 I shall be ordering mine in the next week or so Oh good. We are back on topic again. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
winky84 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 ordered mine today... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Not sure how Jason will feel about being obliquely described as 'American'.Chris, I didn't think I did that. Canada does not cleave to the imperial system.Yes. I understand that, I was referring to the United States. Like the Boeing flight deck, up is 'on' for light switches in the US. But, we're way off topic - I'm sorry for the digression. Edited July 21, 2014 by Ozexpatriate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelpara Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Any idea what number we are up to now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
autocoach Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Then the US should convert to light-years (PS: So could Canada ) AU = Astronomical Units..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Not sure how Jason will feel about being obliquely described as 'American'. Canada does not cleave to the imperial system. It has the same awful, half-baked halfway system that we do. Worse in that their roads and speed limits etc are all Kilometres yet the railway is still in miles because it has to be. Everything was measured and marked in miles and you have locations that are called things like Ten Mile where changing it would not only be ludicrous but would miss the point entirely. I'm reminded of Ronnie Barker's famous lecture on metrication. I recall during the struggle to cope with metrication, going to our local timber yard to buy some 2 by 1. The guy in the office carefully converted it to metric and gave me the docket to take out into the yard. The guy with handsaw studied it for a couple of minutes, gave me a sideways look, and said "So you want 2 by 1 then?" CHRIS LEIGH I grew up with both imperial & metric systems and can convert between the two with ease. I then moved to France, can now also switch between euros and pounds, driving a left or right hand car or either the left or right hand side all with ease. Can also speak two langauges fluently, which is dead handly as when I went into the French archives looking at docs a couple of hundred years old, I was able to readily understand the former French imperial system of measurement. Which is a similar structure but not the same measures as the UK one, a French "livre" (pound) being a tad heavier than the English one. French TV sizes are still in "puce" meaning inch (width of a thumb, puce being the French word for thumb), and I am "une toise" tall (a measurement around 2 yards long). I guess understanding all these double standards is part of being Gemini!! The French also tried to decimalise time, only artists and poets were invited to help. This lead to months being named wintery, rainy, foggy, grape harvest etc etc, weeks would have had 10 days, and each day of the year had its own name.... "If we are brocolli today and my aunt takes 3 days to get then then she will arrive on cow day!!" Thanks to the artists and poets, no one could ever use the system and it died quite quickly when Napoleon arrived in a power. Edited July 22, 2014 by JSpencer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted July 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 24, 2014 WAY off topic In this country the "metric martyrs" have a lot to answer for. At one time (thanks to the EU?) we were on a steady course to metrication. Greengrocers had to display weights in kilos (as well as pounds if shown), meaning a transparent pricing structure. At one town where we shop there were two greengrocers, one showing only metric and one both systems. When the MMs got their way the one showing both went back to pounds only, claiming "old folk don't understand those foreign weights". I'm one of the old folk and understand only too clearly this shyster whose prices ended up quite a bit higher than the all metric greengrocer nearby. The "old folks" carried on buying in pounds and getting ripped off, the other greengrocer lost trade and closed. We stopped shopping at this rip-off merchant on principle, who wouldn't have got away with it if he had to show metric pricing as well. Keith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The decision to adopt the Metric system in the UK was made by Parliament in 1965, and the Metrication board set up in 1969. We joined the EEC in 1973, so metrication cannot be blamed on the EU. Sorry if that sounds a bit snotty but I do get annoyed when everything going on in the UK gets blamed on the "EU". I half expect Beeching to be revealed as an EU inspired plot to boost German and French car production sometime soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted July 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 24, 2014 The decision to adopt the Metric system in the UK was made by Parliament in 1965, and the Metrication board set up in 1969. We joined the EEC in 1973, so metrication cannot be blamed on the EU. Sorry if that sounds a bit snotty but I do get annoyed when everything going on in the UK gets blamed on the "EU". I half expect Beeching to be revealed as an EU inspired plot to boost German and French car production sometime soon. I also take that stance but in this instance it was the EU (BTW A decision to adopt the metric system and actually implementing it are not the same thing.) IIRC was a directive from the EU on using metric units for certain products which sparked the "Metric Martyr's" campaign. The UK had been required to phase out certain imperial units in a given time span See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_80/181/EEC Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf27 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I remember when this topic was about the APT-E! Cheers Shane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted July 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 24, 2014 I remember when this topic was about the APT-E! Cheers Shane Me too. The APT-E's speed record is quoted in Imperial units, so that's that!!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted July 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 24, 2014 I remember when this topic was about the APT-E! Cheers Shane What's the APT-E? Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 it would be interesting to get a feel for how many orders have been so far received on this assuming its not commercially sensitive info. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 it would be interesting to get a feel for how many orders have been so far received on this assuming its not commercially sensitive info. You or some family member could always place an order from time to time to see what number pops out. You'll end up with around 10 APT-Es.... but at least you will know how are being sold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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