OO Gauge class 71 Electric Locomotive

[73080]

I have no doubt that the DJM Class 71 will at least equal the Hornby version in cosmetic terms.  Therefore, if I wanted a model to sit on the shelf, I would probably order the DJM version.

 

So why am I going to order a Hornby Class 71 instead ?

 

DJ has shown that he is a skilled design engineer.  I have yet to be convinced that he has skills as a production engineer, and I want my Class 71 to work.

 

In view of quality control concerns, I try to purchase models from a shop where I can test the models first. This year, the first models I tested for Hornby Grange, 'Wincanton' and 2-BIL syp were all perfect.  The first 60103 had a wobbly wheel, but the second one was OK and purchased.  Hornby success rate 80% - not brilliant, but I don't believe DJM will beat it.

 

There are no DJM models to compare, so in coming to my judgement I have used the Dapol 4mm Classes 22 and 52 as proxies, which I understand were designed by DJM (please correct me if I am wrong).  The first Class 22 had the worst wobbly wheels I have ever seen on any manufacturers non-steam locos.  Second one tested was OK and purchased.  Class 52 - two different batches tested - both had unacceptably wobbly wheels.  Hence no purchase, and Heljan models retained.  Success rate 25%.

 

The final clincher is that I will be able to test a Hornby Class 71 before purchase, so I will be able to ensure that it works.  DJM Class 71 would have to be mail order, and I am not willing to risk it until DJM can show that he knows how to quality control production, and ensure all models are fitted with perfect wheels.

 

For me, Hornby announcing the Class 71 is the best news out of Warley !

[DJM Dave]

I have no doubt that the DJM Class 71 will at least equal the Hornby version in cosmetic terms.  Therefore, if I wanted a model to sit on the shelf, I would probably order the DJM version.

 

So why am I going to order a Hornby Class 71 instead ?

 

DJ has shown that he is a skilled design engineer.  I have yet to be convinced that he has skills as a production engineer, and I want my Class 71 to work.

 

In view of quality control concerns, I try to purchase models from a shop where I can test the models first. This year, the first models I tested for Hornby Grange, 'Wincanton' and 2-BIL syp were all perfect.  The first 60103 had a wobbly wheel, but the second one was OK and purchased.  Hornby success rate 80% - not brilliant, but I don't believe DJM will beat it.

 

There are no DJM models to compare, so in coming to my judgement I have used the Dapol 4mm Classes 22 and 52 as proxies, which I understand were designed by DJM (please correct me if I am wrong).  The first Class 22 had the worst wobbly wheels I have ever seen on any manufacturers non-steam locos.  Second one tested was OK and purchased.  Class 52 - two different batches tested - both had unacceptably wobbly wheels.  Hence no purchase, and Heljan models retained.  Success rate 25%.

 

The final clincher is that I will be able to test a Hornby Class 71 before purchase, so I will be able to ensure that it works.  DJM Class 71 would have to be mail order, and I am not willing to risk it until DJM can show that he knows how to quality control production, and ensure all models are fitted with perfect wheels.

 

For me, Hornby announcing the Class 71 is the best news out of Warley !

Hi mate,

 

Fully understand where your coming from, and I empathise completely.

However, you will still be able to test a DJM class 71 in your local model shop when it's out.

 

Only the crowd sourcing ones will be non stockists as a way of getting the model off the ground and paying for the development.

This has, I'm glad to say, been very sucessful allowing me to produce the first ( that I believe) fully crowd funded mass produced RTR model that I know if.

 

Stockists will get to order and stock the 71 and the 74 after it, with the 71 being made available with different running numbers 6-12 months after the initial models are delivered to 'sign ups'

 

Cheers

Dave

[woodenhead]

Like others I will be glad when Dave has some actual models out to prove his capability and supply line.

 

But I believe that it was some of the quality control issues with Dapol products that led him to go it alone because the models looked amazing but were suffering in the electrical and mechanical component elements,

 

I look at the likes of Hattons and Kernow using his business as an indicator of his ability.

[mikesndbs]

Just look at the kind of train we will be able to re create! 

 

Come on Dave full steam, well weak field ahead 

[cctransuk]

The final clincher is that I will be able to test a Hornby Class 71 before purchase, so I will be able to ensure that it works.

 

Are you sure about this?

 

Can you test a Hornby 'Exeter' before purchase?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[amwells]

When I read about the duplication, I was both disappointed and unsure if what to do. Let me explain...

 

I'm disappointed with any duplication of models unless there's a material difference in quality. There actually haven't been many duplicates which fit into this category, but the recent spate of announcements seem to, ie Adams Radial, King and 71.

 

Why was I unsure what to do... I was delighted when DJ announced they would crowd fund the 71 as I didn't believe anyone else would do it. So delighted that I believe I was one of the first to stump up cash. Now, given my stated dislike of duplication, what should I do?

- Cancel my 'pledge' for the DJ version in the hope that it would convince Dave to stop development and focus on a different prototype, or advance his 59 which I'm very keen on (and given that Hornby are unlikely to stop their 71 development now)?

- Keep supporting DJ and hope that he will be given permission to produce a preserved version with the NRM? Despite Hornby saying that they will produce it, and although I want a model of that version, I really don't want models of the same class that inevitably look slightly different from different manufacturers (and I don't mean as a result of detail differences!!)?

 

So, I spoke to my wife and explained the situation. She asked me if I thought I would get a high quality model from DJ. I explained (admitted?) that I have several models of a model called a western and wagons called FEAs and MRAs which DJ was heavily involved in and they are excellent. (I didn't admit to having Well Tank and J94 models on order!). Her advice? Stick with DJ. He had the initiative to announce it, I'm happy with the quality I've seen already, and to some extent, she said I should support 'the little guy' (no offence intended there in stating that, just comparing to the 'big 2' manufacturers).

 

So that's what I'm doing. My pledge stays and I hope others also keep the faith. And I hope the NRM also takes Dave up on the excellent proposal to release the exclusive edition he's offered.

[DJM Dave]

When I read about the duplication, I was both disappointed and unsure if what to do. Let me explain...

I'm disappointed with any duplication of models unless there's a material difference in quality. There actually haven't been many duplicates which fit into this category, but the recent spate of announcements seem to, ie Adams Radial, King and 71.

Why was I unsure what to do... I was delighted when DJ announced they would crowd fund the 71 as I didn't believe anyone else would do it. So delighted that I believe I was one of the first to stump up cash. Now, given my stated dislike of duplication, what should I do?

- Cancel my 'pledge' for the DJ version in the hope that it would convince Dave to stop development and focus on a different prototype, or advance his 59 which I'm very keen on (and given that Hornby are unlikely to stop their 71 development now)?

- Keep supporting DJ and hope that he will be given permission to produce a preserved version with the NRM? Despite Hornby saying that they will produce it, and although I want a model of that version, I really don't want models of the same class that inevitably look slightly different from different manufacturers (and I don't mean as a result of detail differences!!)?

So, I spoke to my wife and explained the situation. She asked me if I thought I would get a high quality model from DJ. I explained (admitted?) that I have several models of a model called a western and wagons called FEAs and MRAs which DJ was heavily involved in and they are excellent. (I didn't admit to having Well Tank and J94 models on order!). Her advice? Stick with DJ. He had the initiative to announce it, I'm happy with the quality I've seen already, and to some extent, she said I should support 'the little guy' (no offence intended there in stating that, just comparing to the 'big 2' manufacturers).

So that's what I'm doing. My pledge stays and I hope others also keep the faith. And I hope the NRM also takes Dave up on the excellent proposal to release the exclusive edition he's offered.

Hi mate,

 

I read and re read your posting and thank you, and your good lady for the kind words and thoughts that went into them.

 

I will be putting out a press release on Tuesday which will be quite exciting, and will clarify lots of things on this model, from laser scanning, to progress to duplication and my thoughts on it, to crowd sourcing and to the future of this locomotive in OO and possibly beyond.

 

It should prove to be an interesting read. ;-)

 

Cheers and thanks for keeping the faith, I won't let you or any other crowd sourcing 'club' members down!

 

Cheers

Dave

[Gwiwer]

I trust Dave Jones.

 

From before he went solo he has been open, honest and frank with the modelling community and has sought our advice - his customers - at every turn.  Remember the Western?  Every little detail was checked and cross-checked with those who knew them intimately and the results (Dapol quality control excepted) are stunning.

 

After several supply and distribution issues I feel I cannot trust Hornby.  Their product range is far larger but the quality has also been very variable.  They currently don't have a "customer interface" since Simon Kohler moved on but his was only a small part of the total operation anyway.

 

Hornby has only announced a class 71.  DJ Models has stated that "The 74 will follow the 71".  

 

I have no sensible use for a class 71 and with the greatest respect to those involved I cannot afford one for display only.  But I do have a use for at least one class 74, possibly two, and have made mention of this before.  That was acknowledged by DJ.  So while I haven't been a part of the class 71 crowd-sourcing to get the project going I know where my Pounds (or converted Aussie Dollars) will end up.

[jsp3970]

I really want to get one of the DJM 71's and am saving my money to order one. Hopefully when the time comes, before Christmas, I will still be able to get one. It currently converts to about $250 Canadian.

 

I am thinking that if we support this initative Dave may be interested down the road in producing over models, I would be cheering for early AC locomotives as if you guys haven't got sick of me mentioning them in other posts!

[jsp3970]

Ok so I obviously had a mental breakdown because I forgot that living in Canada I don't pay VAT, which takes off a nice chunk. However I would have to pay the shipping and I am not sure how much this will weigh. At the cheap rate, less than 1kg,  it comes out to about $200 now.

Edited November 24, 2014 by jsp3970

[Dogmatix]

I was quite surprised to see posters of a 71 at the Hornby stand at Warley; I did not know they were doing one, too. The man on the stand told me that theirs will have the same sort of features as other recent Hornby diesels - motor amidship with flywheels, NEM coupling pockets (or dovetail shafts) mounted on extending close coupling mounts.... He also indicated that Hornby would do the preserved version.

[rembrow]

For me there really is no choice, I have pre-ordered and paid for two DJ Class 71s and will continue with that support, I believe that companies like DJ Models along with Realtrack and Oxford Rail are the future of British outline rtr models, as they are run by people who have a passion for the hobby rather than the 'professional' directors that are moving into Hornby who see things in a totally dispassionate manner. Dave, with Charlie and Taff, have opened up a dialogue with their potential customers and enthusiasts, to seek feedback and give progress, which none of the larger businesses have had the courage to do in the open, frank and honest way that we have seen from DJ and Realtrack. By supporting Dave we are investing in the future of British outline rtr models, I believe. I have not had such a buzz for my hobby that has come from the announcements this year, for some time.

[DJM Dave]

For me there really is no choice, I have pre-ordered and paid for two DJ Class 71s and will continue with that support, I believe that companies like DJ Models along with Realtrack and Oxford Rail are the future of British outline rtr models, as they are run by people who have a passion for the hobby rather than the 'professional' directors that are moving into Hornby who see things in a totally dispassionate manner. Dave, with Charlie and Taff, have opened up a dialogue with their potential customers and enthusiasts, to seek feedback and give progress, which none of the larger businesses have had the courage to do in the open, frank and honest way that we have seen from DJ and Realtrack. By supporting Dave we are investing in the future of British outline rtr models, I believe. I have not had such a buzz for my hobby that has come from the announcements this year, for some time.

Thank you mate, very humbling post.

Cheers

Dave

[Accurascale Fran]

One distinct advantage the DJM one should have over the Hornby version is that it wont have the stupid coupling system Hornby applies on its model diesels. Well I hope not! 

[Gwiwer]

Thank you mate, very humbling post.

Cheers

Dave

 

And one with which I whole-heartedly agree.  Sometimes one "Agree" is not enough.

[jsp3970]

I guess I will have to wait for the announcement that Dave is going to make. Its 3:20 in the morning now for me and time I get to bed. Guess I have to wait longer than most to find out what it is.

 

I hope it is good news, as I posted above I plan on ordering one very soon!

[mikesndbs]

Hmm, it will have a easy to use coupling system won't it?

 

Otherwise I am still more than happy to stick with Dave's one and Hornby can go and do one

[southernelectric]

Come on Dave....let's see that press release it's 16:09 already ;-)

[Mod4]

See here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93059-new-green-fywp-e5010-announced-and-repaint-of-nrm-e5001/

 

and also here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93060-class-71-kickstarter-press-release/

 

both posted in the DJModels section earlier today

[mikesndbs]

OK, I am building up my knowledge of these locos nicely been in touch with a chap who used to drive them, great detail about that.

Also now know they had a whistle and not horns, very nice.

Would love to see some pics of the cab layout including the pan up/down controls?

[southernelectric]

See here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93059-new-green-fywp-e5010-announced-and-repaint-of-nrm-e5001/

 

and also here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93060-class-71-kickstarter-press-release/

 

both posted in the DJModels section earlier today

 

Oops!   Thanks for the links....   

Edited November 25, 2014 by southernelectric

[Dave Scott]

OK, I am building up my knowledge of these locos nicely been in touch with a chap who used to drive them, great detail about that.

Also now know they had a whistle and not horns, very nice.

Would love to see some pics of the cab layout including the pan up/down controls?

Whistles were fitted to the 71s and EMUs up to the 4 CEP. It was mid 60s that retrofitting horns took place. One small point for Dave - early versions like the EMUS did not have red blanks until mid 60s. I find having red blanks on my MLV anoying

[Bert Cheese]

There are some cab pics at the Southern Electric Group site here: http://www.semgonline.com/electric/class71_3.html

 

Remarkably simple looking, the single power control handle being retained in the class 74 conversions, unlike the 73's with their dual interlocked control handles.

[jsp3970]

There are some cab pics at the Southern Electric Group site here: http://www.semgonline.com/electric/class71_3.html

 

Remarkably simple looking, the single power control handle being retained in the class 74 conversions, unlike the 73's with their dual interlocked control handles.

Thanks for the link. Never seen any photos of the controls of a 71, looks so basic compared to modern power.

[TRAILRAGE]

What we don't know is the final spec for the Hornby CL 71 model 2-BILL style details with motor bogie or full fat like the CL60, or even how that will effect the end RRP.

With Hornby still trying to recover from many problems they still seem to be up against it with most modellers. Although  its always good to see a manufacturer announce a release,

It's just a shame that duplication of two smaller companies has occurred.

Personally my money is staying with DJM in good faith. With regular CAD CAM updates and request for info or detail options its obvious that Dave has a passion for what he does.

I think rembrow said it better than anybody about supporting the future of the Hobby.

 

Think I might have to start saving for the 74 now!

 

Drooling in anticipation Trailrage