OO Gauge class 71 Electric Locomotive

[Judge Dread]

Looks like my DC kits Class 71 model with a 'cut and shut' Hornby Class 90 chassis (later version with twin worm drive) may be on its last tour of duty- sorry Charlie, still DC did sell me the body, underframe and bogie parts so I could build my own chassis.

 

Looks like my DC kits Class 71 model with a 'cut and shut' Hornby Class 90 chassis (later version with twin worm drive) may be on its last tour of duty- sorry Charlie, still DC did sell me the body, underframe and bogie parts so I could build my own chassis.

I went down the same road when I got Ken Gibbons to build me one of Charlie's kits. This one is on it's second power bogie having worn out the first one on "Brockley Green S.E.4." in it's E.M. guise. Now it runs on "Meopham East Junction" with a "Black Beetle" power plant.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Judge Dread

[bigherb]

What we now call a class 71.

 

The electric locos were originally known as "HA" and the small electro-diesels as "JA" (first six, later class 73/0 or "JB" (the rest).

Yes that's what I thought, but then SM's post doesn't make sense that's why I wanted clarification.

[DJM Dave]

Hello Dave glad to see things are progressing well with this venture positive news seems to be so rare these days.

Might sound like a daft question and one that's probably already been answered on here but here goes.

Are the batch numbers confirmed as I was thinking of ordering 2 of these little puppies.

 

OOS71-001 E5003 BR GREEN SMALL YELLOW WARNING PANEL

OOS71-004 71013 BR BLUE WITH FULL YELLOW ENDS

 

Any clue on dates for E5003 carrying the small yellow panel?

 

This is only possible because of cancelling my order for a CL205 DEMU in blue with Kernow now that the price has had to be hiked up 

so kind of  bad news good news situation.

 

Many thanks Trailrage

 

edited for having sausage fingers which are not much use for typing!!

 

Hi mate,

 

Yes the batch numbers are confirmed as per Kernow's list.

No idea on the livery thing, and I have some information coming that I'll put on my website showing all works info, and livery changes/dates etc.

 

Cheers

Dave

[The Stationmaster]

Yes that's what I thought, but then SM's post doesn't make sense that's why I wanted clarification.

Sorry, slippery finger on my part - it should have read JA (and is now corrected thanks).

[DJM Dave]

Shouldn't do, the red/white stripe had gone by the time of yellow warning panels.

Just as a thought. I wonder if any of them ( by that I mean just 1 will do) had a small yellow panel but didn't have the red stripe removed when the panel was applied?

 

I only ask because I havnt managed to find a picture of one like it, but then we all said that about the green FYWP of E5010 that appeared a month ago on a slide on e-bay.

 

I've found upper front yellow warning panels and lower front yellow warning panels, so I'm always hoping for a new potential livery.

[JSpencer]

Interestingly, the photo of a class 71 just after commissioning shows a green akin to carriage colour than loco:

 

But a later photo with a stripe seems to hint at loco green.

Edited November 15, 2014 by JSpencer

[bigherb]

Just as a thought. I wonder if any of them ( by that I mean just 1 will do) had a small yellow panel but didn't have the red stripe removed when the panel was applied?

 

I only ask because I havnt managed to find a picture of one like it, but then we all said that about the green FYWP of E5010 that appeared a month ago on a slide on e-bay.

 

I've found upper front yellow warning panels and lower front yellow warning panels, so I'm always hoping for a new potential livery.

Not sure I was only a nippa when they they changed green just remember the stark contrast from the original malachite to the plain coach green. Whether some lost the red strip still in malachite I don't know but don't remember plain coach green with a red stripe. Towards the mid sixties they only seemed to come out to play when it was dark, couldn't really tell what colour they where then.

[Mike Storey]

Looks like the 74 could be a goer then - won't have to worry about the paint shade as I remember them (in their blue days) as particularly dusty and grimy compared to the 71's, except when they had to work a special.

[DJM Dave]

Looks like the 74 could be a goer then - won't have to worry about the paint shade as I remember them (in their blue days) as particularly dusty and grimy compared to the 71's, except when they had to work a special.

Hi Mike,

 

Yes the 74 will go ahead. Research stuff on that loco s hard to come by as the NRM only has the designs of the braking system, so it might take longer to happen.

 

Mind you, having reached the tipping point and working towards tooling of the 71, there is still sign ups required for the 71, to ensure the whole project keeps on track ( excuse the pun)

 

Cheers

Dave

[Mike Storey]

Hi Mike,

 

Yes the 74 will go ahead. Research stuff on that loco s hard to come by as the NRM only has the designs of the braking system, so it might take longer to happen.

 

Mind you, having reached the tipping point and working towards tooling of the 71, there is still sign ups required for the 71, to ensure the whole project keeps on track ( excuse the pun)

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Thanks Dave, but I very much expect that once the first model gets reviewed here and in the mags, the rest will fly out of the container before you blink. If they don't, I will keep my promise towards the cause, but I would rather convert my drinking vouchers into a blue 74 or two.

[DJM Dave]

Thanks Dave, but I very much expect that once the first model gets reviewed here and in the mags, the rest will fly out of the container before you blink. If they don't, I will keep my promise towards the cause, but I would rather convert my drinking vouchers into a blue 74 or two.

Hi Mike,

 

I think that those that were fence sitting will over the next few weeks and months, order models as they see evidence it's proceeding.

 

Lots more info still to come so the project will keep in the public eye right through its gestation period.

 

Cheers

Dave

[The Stationmaster]

Interestingly, the photo of a class 71 just after commissioning shows a green akin to carriage colour than loco: image.jpgimage.jpg

 

But a later photo with a stripe seems to hint at loco green.

I think they went through several greens at various time during their career and before it got simpler when they were painted blue.

[Gwiwer]

Delighted for all involved that the 71 is a runner (pardon the pun) and as I've suggested before once the 74 is formally announced there's some money waiting here.   

[phil gollin]

.

 

Did the class 71s (all greens and blue) go through the carriage cleaning plants which were notorious for fading unvarnished paintwork.  Certainly I remember some pretty faded blue examples.

 

.

Edited November 16, 2014 by phil gollin

[Southernman46]

No, as the 3rd rail would not have gone through any carriage washing plant - even with the booster set but I stand to be corrected.

 

More likely to have got sea-salt weathered courtesy of Dover Town yard.

 

My (blue) recollections are they weathered to an "average" blue colour - all were out of use about 6 - 7 years after even the 1st blue repaints - very few would have got a second coat.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Southernman46

[Mike Storey]

Anything with a third rail can go through a washer! That's how all the EMU's get washed!! However, I am not aware that E or ED locos ever went through them as a matter of course - they certainly didn't at the carriage servicing depots where I supervised during the 80's (Gillingham, Ramsgate and Lover's Walk). I think I recall a washer at one end of Hither Green in the late seventies, but I never saw it used, Does anyone know ( or am I confusing it with Slugs' Island?, or Slade Green as it was officially known)?

 

Blue did fade faster than the greens previously used, as the green was originally applied as several under and gloss coats in much the traditional way as for carriages (not sure if that applied to later variants), whereas blue was a two pack paint with satin finish, designed to be applied quickly and easily. It did not wear terribly well, but it did the job, given re-paints were many, many years apart in those days. Saying that, the first batch of NSE colours were a disaster through carriage washers. I remember we ran a pristine NSE liveried 4CIG through the washer at Lovers Walk, for Chris Green's inspection, who was waiting at Brighton station. The red had run terribly into the blue, and the white had streaked down the sides. He was not pleased.

 

Part of the problem must also have been the use of the range of "DP" (development product) cleaning solutions developed by BR. The one for the carriage washers was an acidic solution (called Exmover, DP 21 I think, unless that was the one for toilets!). This was brought in to try to remove the brake dust grime (basically red hot iron filings that would weld themselves into the paintwork and turn brown) that used to cover the lower half of EMU's (and all shoe-braked stock) within weeks of coming out of a paint shop. The pH of each washer tank was supposed to be checked regularly to ensure it wasn't too acidic, in which case more water was added. You can imagine the results if, the pH wasn't properly checked and if this was also supplied to TMD's for loco washing, presumably mostly by brush. We also used to brush clean really dirty EMU's, before they went into the washer, with the same solution. Thus, if anyone is that worried about the absolutely correct shade of paint for anything after, say, 1965, and before vinyls came into general use in the 90's, just think about that.

[Mike Storey]

Anything with a third rail can go through a washer! That's how all the EMU's get washed!! However, I am not aware that E or ED locos ever went through them as a matter of course - they certainly didn't at the carriage servicing depots where I supervised during the 80's (Gillingham, Ramsgate and Lover's Walk). I think I recall a washer at one end of Hither Green in the late seventies, but I never saw it used, Does anyone know ( or am I confusing it with Slugs' Island?, or Slade Green as it was officially known)?

 

Blue did fade faster than the greens previously used, as the green was originally applied as several under and gloss coats in much the traditional way as for carriages (not sure if that applied to later variants), whereas blue was a two pack paint with satin finish, designed to be applied quickly and easily. It did not wear terribly well, but it did the job, given re-paints were many, many years apart in those days. Saying that, the first batch of NSE colours were a disaster through carriage washers. I remember we ran a pristine NSE liveried 4CIG through the washer at Lovers Walk, for Chris Green's inspection, who was waiting at Brighton station. The red had run terribly into the blue, and the white had streaked down the sides. He was not pleased.

 

Part of the problem must also have been the use of the range of "DP" (development product) cleaning solutions developed by BR. The one for the carriage washers was an acidic solution (called Exmover, DP 21 I think, unless that was the one for toilets!). This was brought in to try to remove the brake dust grime (basically red hot iron filings that would weld themselves into the paintwork and turn brown) that used to cover the lower half of EMU's (and all shoe-braked stock) within weeks of coming out of a paint shop. The pH of each washer tank was supposed to be checked regularly to ensure it wasn't too acidic, in which case more water was added. You can imagine the results if, the pH wasn't properly checked and if this was also supplied to TMD's for loco washing, presumably mostly by brush. We also used to brush clean really dirty EMU's, before they went into the washer, with the same solution. Thus, if anyone is that worried about the absolutely correct shade of paint for anything after, say, 1965, and before vinyls came into general use in the 90's, just think about that.

 

I realise I must correct the first sentence of this, as I now see what Southernman was getting at! Of course the 3rd rail does not extend through the washer, but EMU's can go through as at least one set of shoes will be on the juice on one side or the other. A 71 of course would have to be dragged or propelled through, by an ED or a compatible EMU, but I have never personally seen that happen.

[Oldddudders]

I think I recall a washer at one end of Hither Green in the late seventies, but I never saw it used, Does anyone know ( or am I confusing it with Slugs' Island?, or Slade Green as it was officially known)?

 

That was the Grove Park washer, which had been commissioned as part of Kent Coast electrification, circa 1961. It was very close to a siding in Hither Green downside where they were wont to park ELs, sometimes 3 or 4 together, but I can't imagine an EL going through the washer, as it would be in the way of the EMUs, quite apart from the current collection issues. I imagine the ELs were "allocated" to Stewarts Lane, as was the EDL fleet, and there was a washer there, of course. It would seem sensible for there to have been a wash before e.g. working the Golden Arrow, or even the Night Ferry.

[Mike Storey]

That was the Grove Park washer, which had been commissioned as part of Kent Coast electrification, circa 1961. It was very close to a siding in Hither Green downside where they were wont to park ELs, sometimes 3 or 4 together, but I can't imagine an EL going through the washer, as it would be in the way of the EMUs, quite apart from the current collection issues. I imagine the ELs were "allocated" to Stewarts Lane, as was the EDL fleet, and there was a washer there, of course. It would seem sensible for there to have been a wash before e.g. working the Golden Arrow, or even the Night Ferry.

 

Thanks Ian - that would explain it. I never did work that patch. And of course, I had forgotten the washer in SL.

[Oldddudders]

Thanks Ian - that would explain it. I never did work that patch. And of course, I had forgotten the washer in SL.

I had two years as ASM at Grove Park. I've never recovered.....

[The Stationmaster]

Anything with a third rail can go through a washer! That's how all the EMU's get washed!! However, I am not aware that E or ED locos ever went through them as a matter of course - they certainly didn't at the carriage servicing depots where I supervised during the 80's (Gillingham, Ramsgate and Lover's Walk). I think I recall a washer at one end of Hither Green in the late seventies, but I never saw it used, Does anyone know ( or am I confusing it with Slugs' Island?, or Slade Green as it was officially known)?

 

Blue did fade faster than the greens previously used, as the green was originally applied as several under and gloss coats in much the traditional way as for carriages (not sure if that applied to later variants), whereas blue was a two pack paint with satin finish, designed to be applied quickly and easily. It did not wear terribly well, but it did the job, given re-paints were many, many years apart in those days. Saying that, the first batch of NSE colours were a disaster through carriage washers. I remember we ran a pristine NSE liveried 4CIG through the washer at Lovers Walk, for Chris Green's inspection, who was waiting at Brighton station. The red had run terribly into the blue, and the white had streaked down the sides. He was not pleased.

 

Part of the problem must also have been the use of the range of "DP" (development product) cleaning solutions developed by BR. The one for the carriage washers was an acidic solution (called Exmover, DP 21 I think, unless that was the one for toilets!). This was brought in to try to remove the brake dust grime (basically red hot iron filings that would weld themselves into the paintwork and turn brown) that used to cover the lower half of EMU's (and all shoe-braked stock) within weeks of coming out of a paint shop. The pH of each washer tank was supposed to be checked regularly to ensure it wasn't too acidic, in which case more water was added. You can imagine the results if, the pH wasn't properly checked and if this was also supplied to TMD's for loco washing, presumably mostly by brush. We also used to brush clean really dirty EMU's, before they went into the washer, with the same solution. Thus, if anyone is that worried about the absolutely correct shade of paint for anything after, say, 1965, and before vinyls came into general use in the 90's, just think about that.

The 'active' ingredient in Exmover is oxalic acid which has the excellent property of being highly effivcient at removing brake block dust (which is as good as iron filings by any other name and can thus damage paintwork by rusting).  While Exmover is very good at removing brake block dust it is also very effective at damaging painted surface unless it is thoroughly rinsed off while still wet - once it dries it forms a thin veneer of staining which goes white unless it has any unremoved dirt in it which stains it other colours; it also then starts a long term effect on paint but much of the whiteness is usually unrinsed Exmover.

 

It cannot easily be removed by subsequent washing in a carriage washing plant although we used to find that it could be removed by vigorously hand washing a vehicle using GIC (BR General Interior Cleaner) which also had the advantage, when properly rinsed, of leaving a nice shiny finish.  Easy enough (but time expensive) on coaching stock but virtually impossible on locos as very few depots had any staff able to do loco cleaning.  So that - apart from road dirt - was how diesel loco paint finishes were 'attacked' by cleaning plants.

[Southernman46]

This was brought in to try to remove the brake dust grime (basically red hot iron filings that would weld themselves into the paintwork and turn brown) that used to cover the lower half of EMU's (and all shoe-braked stock) within weeks of coming out of a paint shop.

Hmmmm - wire brushing brake cocks - did a fair share of that at Sludge Island   

[JSpencer]

Hi Mike,

I think that those that were fence sitting will over the next few weeks and months, order models as they see evidence it's proceeding.

Lots more info still to come so the project will keep in the public eye right through its gestation period.

Cheers

Dave

And some of us may order a second one! I am still hesitating over getting a blue one after all this time but think I will succumb in the end.

[TRAILRAGE]

Just found a pic on John Evans FLICKR site (tried to put link up but wont let me copy and paste) of what is said to be E5003 at Crewe south shed in Feb 67 with a hefty chunk out of its side. Its still in plain green with no body side stripe and no yellow end. it also says when released it was a Cl 74 E6107 .

There is also a shot on Transport Photographs (also on FLICKR) showing 3 class 71 one of which is said to be E5003 still in light green but with red? body side stripe and no yellow end apparently in October 63

This is being released  OOS71-001 E5003 BR GREEN SMALL YELLOW WARNING PANEL

 

Just a little confused!!!!!!!

 

Any clarification on what livery variation it carried would be gratefull as my knowledge of these classes is pretty much non existent

 

Muchos Gracias

 

Trailrage

[gardenwall]

Just found a pic on John Evans FLICKR site (tried to put link up but wont let me copy and paste) of what is said to be E5003 at Crewe south shed in Feb 67 with a hefty chunk out of its side. Its still in plain green with no body side stripe and no yellow end. it also says when released it was a Cl 74 E6107 .

There is also a shot on Transport Photographs (also on FLICKR) showing 3 class 71 one of which is said to be E5003 still in light green but with red? body side stripe and no yellow end apparently in October 63

This is being released  OOS71-001 E5003 BR GREEN SMALL YELLOW WARNING PANEL

 

Just a little confused!!!!!!!

 

Any clarification on what livery variation it carried would be gratefull as my knowledge of these classes is pretty much non existent

 

Muchos Gracias

 

Trailrage

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