Oxfordrail - Adams Radial

[Oldddudders]

UK oooUK ooo' ' u opinion upiuoiiI

Indeed.

[rovex]

UK ooo

UK ooo

' ' u opinion upiuoii

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Which is what happens when you don't turn your phone off before putting it back in your pocket

[Robin Brasher]

The picture shows the difference between the two LSWR liveries carried by 488 on the Bluebell Railway. The model Adams Radial in front is a kit built model in Drummond passenger green livery normally carried between 1895 and October 1917 although some engines remained in this livery until the early 1920s. This is the same livery as the Hornby M7 number 245 and the Hornby LSWR terrier.

 

The second Adams Radial is the Oxfordrail version. This is in Adams pea green livery as applied between 1885 and 1895. The lining on the tank sides is curved at the corners whereas the simplified lining applied under Urie between October 1917 and December 1922 was square at the corners.

[Oldddudders]

So I walked into Paignton Model Shop and there was 30584. Last one, said the proprietor, so that clinched it! You wouldn't want the poor little thing to be lonely, after all. We joked about how hard he'd had to try to make the sale. The shop had also sold a number of the first release, and none had come back, so people must be broadly pleased. I can't test this before I get home in early May, but it looks lovely. The visible motor-block is not a deal-breaker for me.

 

I have no doubt the Hornby model will be spiffing, too, but Oxford got there first and I am pleased with my purchase.

[Robin Brasher]

I have compiled the enclosed list of Adams Radials seen in and around the Swanage Railway from Swanage 125 Years of Railways by Brian Jackson. The number 0416 and other numbers starting with 0 would not come out on my spread sheet.

 

It shows that there are plenty of other variations of the Adams Radial for Oxfordrail to produce in LSWR Adams, Drummond, Urie and SR green.

Adams Radial.xlsx

[Cityfan]

I have purchased the LSWR version but the numbers 488 are very feint and flat and I would like to add more 3 dimensional numbers.

Does anyone know something appropriate is available?  Thanks.

[bigherb]

 The number 0416 and other numbers starting with 0 would not come out on my spread sheet.

 

Put an apostrophe before the 0 keeps the zero showing, '045

 

[luke_stevens]

I have purchased the LSWR version but the numbers 488 are very feint and flat and I would like to add more 3 dimensional numbers.

Does anyone know something appropriate is available?  Thanks.

I know Roxey Mouldings do some etched SECR numbers, but I don't think they'd be right.

http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/category/63/4mm-scale-etched-accessories-by-roxey-mouldings/

 

The other option would be to contcat the Historical Society for the London and South Western Railway, and ask if they know.

http://www.lswr.org/

 

Good luck.

 

Luke

[Cityfan]

Thanks for your reply Luke.

[luke_stevens]

I have purchased the LSWR version but the numbers 488 are very feint and flat and I would like to add more 3 dimensional numbers.

Does anyone know something appropriate is available?  Thanks.

Found what I was looking for:

 

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/lswr_sr_fittings.htm

 

E41 - £2.50, LSWR  Etched brass, Adams' loco numbers: four sets of 0-9

 

Luke

[Cityfan]

Many thanks for this link Luke.

Malcolm

[No Decorum]

So I walked into Paignton Model Shop and there was 30584. Last one, said the proprietor, so that clinched it! You wouldn't want the poor little thing to be lonely, after all. We joked about how hard he'd had to try to make the sale. The shop had also sold a number of the first release, and none had come back, so people must be broadly pleased. I can't test this before I get home in early May, but it looks lovely. The visible motor-block is not a deal-breaker for me.

 

I have no doubt the Hornby model will be spiffing, too, but Oxford got there first and I am pleased with my purchase.

If you’re pleased with your purchase now, wait until you run it. Superb.

[Robin Brasher]

Oxfordrail Adams Radial with a professionally built T3 both in Adams pea green livery.  The T3 is in a richer colour than the Radial.

[bertiedog]

It looks like there  will always be a problem with LSWR pea greens, as there are no original samples, and anyway they would have altered by now. The green used by the Bluebell was researched, but I believe in the end a choice had to be made, and the Oxford is pretty near it.

As Hornby is doing the same livery and loco comparisons will be possible, but which will be correct cannot really be determined.

The later Southern Livery should be more accurate as it was standard colour shade, as the Big Four tended to use published formula pigments, and more modern colour comparators were available. Few paints are ever stable after exposure to sun and weather.

Stephen.

[Oldddudders]

If you’re pleased with your purchase now, wait until you run it. Superb.

In fairness, the shop proprietor said he'd run one on his layout and found it to be exactly as you say. He also sold me a decoder, so once back in France we should be good to go.

[Edwardian]

Is it not the case that the Oxford nor Hornby Adams livery versions are correct only for the locomotive in preservation? 

 

This, I confess, puts me off, because I don't really see myself modelling the Bluebell Railway in the '60s or '70s or whenever it was that the loco actually ran in that condition. 

 

I would have thought that the most obvious and popular choice for modellers would be to use these locomotives on the Lyme Regis branch for which they were famous, or fictional variants thereof, but as the Radials only came to the branch in 1913, surely they would have been wearing Drummond livery?

 

If so, would not Drummond livery have been a better choice?

 

Hornby has managed a Drummond M7, after all.

 

Still, Kernow has shown no interest in a LSWR-liveried O2, the class superseded by the Radials on the Lyme Regis branch.

 

I suppose the 'pretty-but-inaccurate-preserved locomotive' model is par for the course these days.   

[Graham_Muz]

Is it not the case that the Oxford nor Hornby Adams livery versions are correct only for the locomotive in preservation? 

 

This, I confess, puts me off, because I don't really see myself modelling the Bluebell Railway in the '60s or '70s or whenever it was that the loco actually ran in that condition. 

 

I would have thought that the most obvious and popular choice for modellers would be to use these locomotives on the Lyme Regis branch for which they were famous, or fictional variants thereof, but as the Radials only came to the branch in 1913, surely they would have been wearing Drummond livery?

 

If so, would not Drummond livery have been a better choice?

 

Hornby has managed a Drummond M7, after all.

 

Still, Kernow has shown no interest in a LSWR-liveried O2, the class superseded by the Radials on the Lyme Regis branch.

 

I suppose the 'pretty-but-inaccurate-preserved locomotive' model is par for the course these days.

I can confirm that both the Oxford and Hornby versions of 488 are / will be in 'as preserved' condition and livery, Hornby have certainly to my knowledge never implied otherwise. The filled in coal rails are the most obvious clue.

I certainly believe that the market is much larger (although watered down due to the duplication) for people wishing to obtain the as preserved loco than wanting to built a pre grouping Lyme Regis layout.

 

With respect to the Kernow O2 in LSWR livery your statement "Kernow has shown no interest" is factually incorrect as there has been such discussions, I know as I have been having them with Kernow, around the potential market size and possibility and indeed it may not be ruled out for a future production run, however the current batch will need to sell out first to justify an overall production run size to allow further livery variations.

[rue_d_etropal]

photos I have seen made me thing the green was actually paler, or maybe that was light shining. Trouble is that without suitable coaches in LSWR livery it will either have to run as preserved, or pulling wagons.

Any way, I wonder if they have considered another version. One was bought by the army and used at Longmoor, and whilst there was modified at Swindon, with typical GWR safety valve cover! If it was also in Longmoor blue livery it would make an interesting colour alternative.It ran on olther army lines, but no mention of livery.

Quite a few Longmoor locos could be(and some have been) done from r2r locos,

Edited April 25, 2016 by rue_d_etropal

[Edwardian]

photos I have seen made me thing the green was actually paler, or maybe that was light shining. Trouble is that without suitable coaches in LSWR livery it will either have to run as preserved, or pulling wagons.

Any way, I wonder if they have considered another version. One was bought by the army and used at Longmoor, and whilst there was modified at Swindon, with typical GWR adornment! If it was also in Longmoor blue livery it would make an interesting colour alternative.

 

Catterick Camp Railway, and, I assume, War Department lined black like the Beyer Peacock 2-4-0T it superseded.  Early 1920s (1921?) as I recall.  I will be modelling this at some point, but the book I need is out of print.  

 

Collectors may prefer preserved examples, but the appetite for RTR pre-Grouping has barely been tested by adequate releases, so does not admit of a firm negative conclusion.  The lack of joined-up releases for the period, which the random inaccurate preserved releases only help to perpetuate, effectively discourages the new-modeller and novice returnee alike from considering the period.  Build it and they will come, however, and the "low demand" argument is, IMHO, at best unproven and at worst a gutless fallacy relied upon to justify concentrating upon the low-hanging fruit that is still the 1950-60s market.

 

There was no suggestion that the "as preserved" models were being passed off as anything else, though I bet more than a few mistaken purchases are made.  The complaint is that they are good only for the preservation modeller, and I have seen far more pre-Grouping layouts around than layouts of preserved lines.

 

Perhaps I should have said that Kernow have demonstrated no interest in a pre-Grouping O2, as they have not, so far as I was aware, and I do not think I can be expected to have taken into account any private discussions in making that assessment.  The fact that there is no tooling option for the Gate Stock pre-1933 (or so) suggests that Kernow is not serious about a pre-Grouping version of the locomotive.  I would be delighted to be proved wrong on this one, as I would certainly buy one!. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

Not in the best condition or the best light, but a preserved interpretation of Adams green:

[Dunsignalling]

Surely just a case of commercial realism. Oxford are pragmatically catering for eras of known demand rather than taking a punt on a hitherto neglected one which may or may not be big enough to make it worth their while.

 

Any new entrant to the r-t-r model railway scene would do the same. Were I in their position, I would certainly take note of how long-standing participants in the industry approach things. That can, I think, be summed up as "pre-group will either be a goldmine or a disaster and we'd rather somebody else finds out which." 

 

The time for pre-group versions will be, as intimated by Kernow Models, once the models have covered their costs and the shelves are (almost) bare, as a small batch tacked on to a second wave (if any) of the more mainstream model.

 

After establishing the demand for the model itself in the popular market segments, a modest foray into true pre-1923 liveries may be expected, though anything that requires significant re-tooling is unlikely during the early years of such a process. 

 

Once a toe has been placed in the water, it will be up to those who have been clamouring for such models to demonstrate that there really is a worthwhile demand, and not sit on the side-lines carping that the chosen livery is five years out of their period. It won't take too many flops to make the industry write the segment off altogether. 

 

Another problem (or perhaps a different face of the same one) is that long-standing exponents of pre-group modelling are accustomed to making their own models or getting professional modellers to do it for them so getting exactly what they want is their default position. Most of these guys also have very definite views on how things should be done and, for many of them, that doesn't involve plastic. 

 

Good luck with all of that........

 

John  

 

PS. Crunch Question: If you had to make the decision as to which of at least four LSWR liveries to apply to a proper pre-group O2 or Radial, which would you chose and would you still buy if that actually chosen turned out not to be your preferred one?

Edited April 25, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Mad Carew]

I daresay these things will take time, but I think the decades' long focus on the last decade or so of steam is bound to run out of steam sooner or later and those manufacturers prepared to prepare for tapping other markets, like-pre-grouping, have a great opportunity. 

 

It is a shame that so much effort goes on scanning inaccurate preserved locomotives and reproducing the same anomalies only smaller!  For me there is no point in an accurate model of an inaccurate reconstruction, but, hey, that's just me!

 

It remains to be see if there turn out to be more models of the Bluebell than of the Lyme Regis branch!

[BG John]

PS. Crunch Question: If you had to make the decision as to which of at least four LSWR liveries to apply to a proper pre-group O2 or Radial, which would you chose and would you still buy if that actually chosen turned out not to be your preferred one?

I might be tempted by one in a livery suitable for 1905, if it's fairly straightforward to convert to EM. Or a pre 1892 one if it can be converted to P4.

[mvrnut]

Dunsignaling,

       To answer your crunch question, I would prefer to see LSWR liveries firstly in the Drummond passenger loco livery and second choice would be for the Urie livery. But then my modelling period is mainly 1930"s so definitely Maunsell livery.

 

Cheers,

Chris

[Robin Brasher]

I hope that in the future Oxfordrail will issue the Adams Radials in their original state in LSWR Adams, Drummond and Urie green and in Southern olive green. There were 71 Radials in LSWR days.There is more scope to put them on authentic layouts than the three survivors which limit their use to models of the Lyme Regis branch and the Bluebell Railway.