Hattons announce 14xx / 48xx / 58xx

[coachmann]

Fair enough, but wouldn't it be easier to spray it using Halfords Matt Black aerosol? (comes out slightly satin).

Spot-on.

[No Decorum]

I recently bought a model of 1420 which is based on the South Devon Railway. This is a replacement for my Airfix model which had a poor performance although the model railway press gave it excellent reviews when it came out. I sold the Airfix model to Hattons but kept the autocoach.

 

After oiling it I ran the Hattons model in for 15 minutes at the Godlingston Trials at Swanage. At 40% power on the Gaugemaster model D controller running in light it overtook a Hornby 'Duchess of Atholl' hauling 10 coaches at 60% power.

 

After running in I attached the Airfix autocoach. 1420 normally started at 20% power in both forward and reverse but it did sometimes need a helping hand to start. It ran very smoothly and was a huge improvement on the Airfix model. It also ran much better than the Hornby H class. I liked the packaging and comprehensive instructions on the Hattons model.

 

The picture shows 1420 at Dunster station on the layout in the barn at Godlingston Manor, Swanage.

Forgive my disagreement but I would regard a model which sometimes needs a helping hand to start as unacceptable. Even my dodgy H Class doesn’t need that.

[The Black Hat]

Forgive my disagreement but I would regard a model which sometimes needs a helping hand to start as unacceptable. Even my dodgy H Class doesn’t need that.

 

You could both buy a Q6, stick it on the back as banker and never need worry about whether it will take the load or not for it will just get pushed.

[The Johnster]

Fair enough, but wouldn't it be easier to spray it using Halfords Matt Black aerosol? (comes out slightly satin).

 

 

Agreed, but I was reticent to advise a contributor who might be inexperienced in painting to try using spray rattlecans for a first attempt, which need to be used in a properly ventilated area, ideally with a facemask, with the workpiece supported in a booth, and some practice to apply effectively.  It is possible to make a real mess of not just the workpiece but the surrounding area as well if you don't know what you are doing with a rattlecan!  Plus brush painting leaves him the opportunity to leave the buffer beams and not have to repaint them, a possible consideration for others reading the post who have pre-nationalisation liveried models with numbers on the buffer beams.

 

I was, admittedly, making a possibly unwarranted assessment of his experience and ability, but judged that the nature of a question to which an experienced modeller would know the answer warranted this.

Edited November 23, 2017 by The Johnster

[Robin Brasher]

The Johnster raised some interesting points in post 2083 about spraying models. In addition I am not sure whether the Halfords spray is compatible with plastic. It was not compatible when they used cellulose spray as I found out when spraying an Airfix Ford Cortina Cambridge blue to match my father's car. I have only used spray a couple of times and both these were outside without any protective gear: once to spray some ballasted track track colour and the other to respray a play worn Dinky car. I have always brush painted model locomotives and carriages in a well ventilated room as it is safer, I have more control about what I am doing and creates less mess.

 

Turning to No Decorum's point in post 2081 I think that the reason that my 14xx failed to start was more to do with dirt on the wheels or the track than a fault on the locomotive. I had the same problem with my dodgy H class but locomotives with lots of pick ups like the Duchess and the Merchant Navy always seem to start. Our club layout is in a barn and is subject to drafts, changes in temperature and dampness so it is not the ideal place to run an 00 gauge model railway. Over the next year we hope to install electric heating and a new floor so this should provide a better environment for the models and the operator.

[TheSignalEngineer]

I've not had any problems with Halfords acrylics, but I always test on a scrap bit of plastic first when using a new colour.

[coachmann]

Agreed, but I was reticent to advise a contributor who might be inexperienced in painting to try using spray rattlecans for a first attempt, which need to be used in a properly ventilated area, ideally with a facemask, with the workpiece supported in a booth, and some practice to apply effectively.  It is possible to make a real mess of not just the workpiece but the surrounding area as well if you don't know what you are doing with a rattlecan!  Plus brush painting leaves him the opportunity to leave the buffer beams and not have to repaint them, a possible consideration for others reading the post who have pre-nationalisation liveried models with numbers on the buffer beams.

 

I was, admittedly, making a possibly unwarranted assessment of his experience and ability, but judged that the nature of a question to which an experienced modeller would know the answer warranted this.

On RMweb, one can safely assume one is talking to Railway Modellers...   

Edited November 23, 2017 by coachmann

[railroadbill]

Halfords matt black car spray paint

 

The Halfords car paint is acrylic and fine on plastics, like this Jinty body.   The matt black is very useful,  as is the grey primer. I've never had a Halfords paint nozzle block up.  I've  sprayed models in the garden on a reasonably warm and dry day.  (Summer is for painting) :-)

 

 

 

This is a plastic body painted with Halfords matt black, then Testors dullcote (from spraycan as well) as final coat. Renumbered to an S&D jinty.  The spray can does give an even covering even if you're not too practiced with it.

 

 

 

As always there is a third way between the old Airfix 14xx (and later and current Hornby ones) and the Hattons one that does look rather good in the pictures...   yes it's the vintage K's kit!!

 

 

Will it ever be finished? What box did I put the chassis in? But on the plus side you can have whatever motor you like and the body is quite weighty. 

 

A slightly tongue in cheek 14xx pic, but again the black is Halfords matt black and the green is Halfords Rover Brooklands Racing green acrylic spray paint.  It is of course a well known fact that that green is an exact match for BR loco green, er, probably... 

Edited November 23, 2017 by railroadbill

[BWsTrains]

I was, admittedly, making a possibly unwarranted assessment of his experience and ability, but judged that the nature of a question to which an experienced modeller would know the answer warranted this.

Johnster,

 

Apologies that this is off topic but you reminded me of a sidesplitting event when a chemist in our industrial lab (ICI - 1967) decided to "dry clean" his bright orange tie (OK - it was the 60's). Throwing it in a beaker of some chlorinated solvent, probably "carbon tet" it promptly dissolved in a flash turning the whole beaker's contents bright orange! Look on his face - priceless!

 

I guess the moral is never assume anything about anyone's competence, whatever their credentials

 

Colin

Edited November 24, 2017 by BWsTrains

[57xx]

The Johnster raised some interesting points in post 2083 about spraying models. In addition I am not sure whether the Halfords spray is compatible with plastic. It was not compatible when they used cellulose spray ...

 

Halfords sprays have been acrylic for many many years now and there is no problem using them on plastics. 

[coachmann]

RTR models are now made from a different plastic than in olden days and it is more like styrene. However, care still needs to be taken because the manufacturers paint is sometimes oily and requires a thorough washing. Following preparation I usually give RTR models a light spray with Halfords Plastic Primer to neutralize the original finish and to show up surface blemishes.

Edited November 24, 2017 by coachmann

[Pteremy]

Thanks for all the good advice - I will certainly give a repaint a try rather than wait for any further variations to appear. 

[Captain Kernow]

Thanks for all the good advice - I will certainly give a repaint a try rather than wait for any further variations to appear. 

If you have a garden shed with some kind of a bench or wide-ish shelf, you could use an old cardboard box for a 'spray booth', pick up a mask from somewhere like B&Q (try a proper 3M one or similar, with a full seal around the mouth and nose), and then warm the shed up with a hot air heater or similar for 15 mins or so, before you spray with the Halfords spray can.

 

I agree that summer is the best time to spray models, but I also do it in colder weather, but I always warm the shed up first as described above, then put the sprayed model carefully in a shoebox (it is usually mounted on a piece fo 2 x 1 timber or similar, that I can grab hold of without spoiling the painted finish), put the top on the shoebox, and then take it quickly but carefully back indoors to dry off properly. The Halfords aerosol cans don't take too long to get 'touch dry' in any case, provided the temperature is right.

 

I wouldn't advise taking a model straight from a warm house to a cold shed, spraying it, and expecting a decent finish. Condensation would probably spoil things.

[The Johnster]

Thanks for all the good advice - I will certainly give a repaint a try rather than wait for any further variations to appear. 

 

Good man!  You are on the threshold of being a 'proper' modeller which will release you from dependence on RTR liveries and products.  With the addition of transfers and etched number plates, I promise you'll never look back, mate.  And you'll have a different sort of pride in your models that you've put some of your own effort into.

 

Try your new techniques on a scrap workpiece first, ideally of the same material as the model you will be working on, which is not always easy to determine in the case of plastic, where different chemical constitutions and molecule sizes make for quite different surfaces which take different paints in different ways.  This will establish if the paint you are going to use is suitable, and give you practice in you brushing and finishing techniques; these have to be self taught by experience.  Perhaps have a go on your old Airfix first.

 

Good luck with 1420, we are looking forward to the photos of the superbly finished loco!

[Ben Alder]

Being a hundred miles or more from a Halfords, I use Games Workshop Chaos Black spray on loco bodies, which gives good results. Although a primer, it has a semi matt finish and two or three light coats leave a ready surface for any transfers. I usually finish off with either their satin varnish or Army Painter matt depending on how high up the pecking order of cleaning the engine is. Primary priming is done with Humbrol spray grey primer, which despite Humbrol's deserved current reputation does its job perfectly.

[Paul_sterling]

Being a hundred miles or more from a Halfords, I use Games Workshop Chaos Black spray on loco bodies, which gives good results. Although a primer, it has a semi matt finish and two or three light coats leave a ready surface for any transfers. I usually finish off with either their satin varnish or Army Painter matt depending on how high up the pecking order of cleaning the engine is. Primary priming is done with Humbrol spray grey primer, which despite Humbrol's deserved current reputation does its job perfectly.

 

Hi Ben,

 

Out of interest (as I'm completely unawares) is there something wrong with the Humbrol product/i.e. what is the reputation?

 

Paul. 

[coachmann]

Hi Ben,

 

Out of interest (as I'm completely unawares) is there something wrong with the Humbrol product/i.e. what is the reputation?

 

Paul. 

From my experiences, six tins of unstirable putty that was supposedly Gloss #7 Cream. The same colour that was mostly oil with little colour. #89 satin black tha was anything but despite constant stirring. The same colour refusing to dry. A tin of gloss red that was maroon. The worst though was the #89 satin black, which I had used for 40 years for brushing on footplates etc after painting & lining  locos. When the paint took days to fully dry out, it made my job impossible. I turned to other paint manufacturers and would not go back to Humbrol at this stage of the game.  

Edited November 30, 2017 by coachmann

[Sir TophamHatt]

Sorry, I know this is going to sound a little silly but what is the difference between a 58xx and a 14xx?

Looking at the 14xx but want a weathered one and for the logo to be Great Western instead of GWR in green... so basically the 58xx.

[The Fatadder]

A 1400 (or 4800 before the war) was auto fitted while a 5800 was not. I have converted a 5800 to 1400 (adding the auto bits), which isn’t too hard (but would be a little more difficult on a weathered one)

 

For a great western branded tank you would be looking at a 48xx number not a 14xx

Edited November 30, 2017 by The Fatadder

[The Johnster]

There was no difference other than the fitting of auto gear and the battery and wiring to work the buzzer that communicated between the trailer(s) and the loco on an auto train.  The 14xx were numbered in the 48xx series until the winter or 1947, a particularly severe one, led to a coal shortage and the conversion of some locos, including 28xx 2-8-0s, to oil firing; these were allocated the 48xx number series and the auto fitted 0-4-2 tanks renumbered in the 14xx series; the 58xx were left alone.

 

Other experiments included the mounting of a jet engine on a flat wagon, which was then chained to the track and left to blast away at a snow drift on the Abergavenny-Merthyr route; the oil firing at least worked, but this must have been massive fun!

[BWsTrains]

Sorry, I know this is going to sound a little silly but what is the difference between a 58xx and a 14xx?

Looking at the 14xx but want a weathered one and for the logo to be Great Western instead of GWR in green... so basically the 58xx.

Hi, I sent you a PM with some useful stuff to answer your questions. I've already posted on RMWeb quite some time ago.

[Ben Alder]

Hi Ben,

 

Out of interest (as I'm completely unawares) is there something wrong with the Humbrol product/i.e. what is the reputation?

 

Paul. 

As Coachmann said, and then some....Quality control problems out in China to the extrent production was taken back to the UK for some of the range, but it I suspect has fallen foul of Hornby's cash problems and is not a high priority at the moment for them. There are a few threads about it here, and a look at some modellers forums will highlight feelings about the range. Part of the problem with the enamels, which I think is a declining sectoer these days, can be attributed to the restrictons on composition that has affected all oil based paints, but their acrylic brushing ones are equally variable. Supply is another problem, with basic colours unobtainable for months on end. Fortunately there are plenty better alternatives available, but it it sad to see an iconic name sink so low, and hopefully whatever emerges from Hornby's present situation will enable some form of reconstruction to it.

 

Sorry for thread drift, BTW. I have been following this one through nostalgia mainly, having had an original Airfix one when it appeared - a real beauty at the time, which ended up like the proverbial shovel, with a replacement Dapol chassis and a set of tractionless drivers, which transformed its running. I only got rid of it a couple of years ago, having retained it by sentiment although it sat in a cupboard doing nothing for decades. It is now running on an adults trainset who has just started in the hobby and is delighted with it, as I am in that it still is giving entertainment and pleasure.

[OnTheBranchline]

So is the consensus "buyer beware" or "it's a good 'un" because I feel like I am getting mixed messages from reading this thread.

[Ian Hargrave]

So is the consensus "buyer beware" or "it's a good 'un" because I feel like I am getting mixed messages from reading this thread.

This is a timely coincidence taking the performance of Hornby's latest offering into account. Read my posts 75 and 80 on that particular thread.

 

Beware the term 'consensus' here.The Hattons/DJM divides opinion from the starting gate.So my own experience is with three of them.They are all eBay purchases so I bought at very reasonable cost. All were initially noisy but with running and the recommended lubrication they are now smooth and quiet with superb slow speed control (DC). They look the part,despite the flaws with coupling rods,lack of ash pan etc.Their performance is prototypical with excellent haulage capability. Let's just say I am one happy customer

 

Usual disclaimers

[The Johnster]

I think criticism of the Hornby, which I have contributed to by the way, should take the low price into account; I am prepared to forgive a lot in this model so long as the running is acceptable!  One would expect the Hatton's/DJM to be better on a 'pays your money takes your choice' basis, and the improved running when the model is run in is a good sign, but the cost for a loco on the 'like one but don't actually need one for an accurate model of my prototype' list is enough to dissuade me.  If it was on the 'definitely needed' list I'd bite the bullet!