Heljan GWR 47xx Night Owl

[adb968008]

Just a quick addendum, my attention was drawn to the coupling rods......

 

Absence of the 2.5ba nut we’ve become used to... these bolts are prototypically accurate for the loco... just compare them to the real thing..

[bike2steam]

Alas the map on the Michael Clemens site doesn't reveal the extensive list of Red routes from which 47XX were barred including a number of useful diversionary routes,  they were also quite heavily restricted as far as sidings etc were concerned - far more so than 'Castles' in fact. 

 

Perhaps the longer 20 foot wheelbase ( as opposed to the near 17 foot of the 28's) had something to do with it, even tho' the drivers on the middle axles had thinner flanges. And perhaps hammer-blow at higher speeds had the civil-engineer worried about the weaker bridges ????

Edited April 3, 2018 by bike2steam

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 The smokebox end on shot certainly is 'knobbly'! Looks more like a gearwheel than a smokebox; It will be interesting to see how some deal with that...

 

It’s a whopper In weight...592g... but that’s the loco and tender

The tender itself packs 104g..!!! The loco alone is 488g... (by comparison Bachmann jubilee is 284g).... I wish all steam locos were as heavy as this....

 Well, those of us that need plentiful traction anyway! The O2 tender was similarly overweight, I took the ballast out, very simple indeed. For running and pulling power the 47xx  looks to be from the same mould as the O2, which is all to the good.

 

Don't be tempted to remove the crankpins, see the O2 thread!

[B15nac]

Is there any detail under the boiler between the frames? Looks very good.

 

 

Regards Neil

[rovex]

Mines arrived.3D6CA38B-9042-40D2-943F-274A933C4423.jpeg

 

...

 

Joys of working from home, but Back to work now, playtime later.

 

Thanks for posting this review. Having decided not to buy one, I impulse bought on Thursday when I saw it was out and was priced at £150 (rather than £200). Then all the detractors got going and I was beginning to regret it. But now I've read your review and seen the photos you've posted I am feeling rather happier about it.

 

Now if only I had a railway to run it on.

 

Rovex

[adb968008]

Is there any detail under the boiler between the frames? Looks very good.

Regards Neil

I don’t know as I have ever seen a rtr steam loco assembled like this before... (I haven’t disassembled an O2 so assume it’s similar.

 

The motor is completely contained within a metal block, that free floats as a unit inside the boiler

 

No wires, it connects via contacts on the chassis to the boiler/motor block.

Inside is our old friend the miniature can motor that looks like the class 15 / Garratt motor.

 

Edited April 3, 2018 by adb968008

[Horsetan]

Interesting to see that the driving wheels are now the correct crankpin-on-spoke, as opposed to the between-spoke shown on the preproduction illustrations (correct for new-build only).

[NIK]

This is more good news, as I have no experience yet with Heljan steam models only diesels (Cromptons mainly).

 

Report as requested:

As my exhibition layout Basingstoke 1958-67 is rather large (87ft x 25ft), full length trains are "de rigour". As Worting Junction and Battledown flyover are included this unavoidably introduces gradients. Although I had to reduce the real life 1 in 90 to 1 in 100 because early tests (10 years ago) quickly revealed haulage problems with British outline steam. (No Traction tyres generally). The current layout although not yet complete can be seen here on RMweb in the "Modelling real locations" category.  

 

All my steam locos have been carefully tested as acquired to reveal their haulage potential as bought. Most needed added weight to improve haulage capacity, and all the tests and details carefully recorded. So I will reproduce here the current situation with regard to my current and still expanding loco fleet, up to December 2017:

 

LOAD TESTS ON A 1 IN 100 GRADIENT.

The columns left to right show:

1 Locos weight as bought;

2 Haulage capacity as bought;  

3 Added weight if any;

4 Haulage capacity with added weight:

5 Average haulage capacity is Loco weight divided by maximum hauled weight.

The test train used comprises a mix of Bachmann Mk1's (up to 4) Bulleids (as required) and Hornby Maunsells (up to 4). 

Load haulage 1 25-12-17.jpg

Load haulage 2 25-12-17.jpg

Load haulage 3 25-12-17.jpg

 

The above tables give a reasonable idea of what various British outline steam models can achieve. The bottom section deals with some of my diesel and electric locos for comparison, which reveals none of them need any additional weight.

 

 

71000

 

Hi,

 

What a great set of data.

 

I'm working on a gradient and curve calculator for predicting what gradient and curve a train will manage.

 

Was the 1 in 100 gradient straight or was there any curvature in it?.

 

 

Regards

 

Nik

[71000]

I don’t know as I have ever seen a rtr steam loco assembled like this before... (I haven’t disassembled an O2 so assume it’s similar.

B3EE5EC0-CED2-4A16-A862-7ECE3B808062.jpeg4E8CFC60-4DFC-4ECD-A60E-6A3A37DCFFA5.jpeg

 

The motor is completely contained within a metal block, that free floats as a unit inside the boilerDEA414DD-CE22-4ED7-85CC-69E0E2336E6B.jpeg

 

No wires, it connects via contacts on the chassis to the boiler/motor block.

Inside is our old friend the miniature can motor that looks like the class 15 / Garratt motor.

 

8D945A74-9BE8-4814-B292-F62BA9F260C5.jpeg

M

Edited April 7, 2018 by 71000

[7007GreatWestern]

I don’t know as I have ever seen a rtr steam loco assembled like this before... (I haven’t disassembled an O2 so assume it’s similar.....

 

 

Nice work and thanks for sharing. Do you know if drive is onto third or fourth coupled axle?

[71000]

Hi,

 

What a great set of data.

 

I'm working on a gradient and curve calculator for predicting what gradient and curve a train will manage.

 

Was the 1 in 100 gradient straight or was there any curvature in it?.

 

 

Regards

 

Nik

N

Edited April 7, 2018 by 71000

[adb968008]

Nik,

Avoid curves like the plague on a gradient, as anything less than around 5ft radius will seriously impair pulling power....

 

For every degree of curvature the power required by the loco to haul itself increases by the square root !!! 

 

I do have a curve at the bottom of my 25ft long 1 in 100, but the curve is around 6ft radius, and the gradient is actually 1 in 125 over the curve to compensate.

 

71000 

I think this is worth a thread of its own, I started some research like this last year and had around 100 locos tested, not sure where thread should go but it’d Be great to put up my notes (and I know others have done so also) and come up with a comparison

[robmcg]

That looks very promising - I'd remove the front coupling anyway. I think those wanky smokebox-stays will have to be replaced when I get mine, an easy job. The grotty BR scheme rather detracts from what is, in reality, quite a handsome design. I've ordered mine in it's original GW scheme needless to say. This looks like a real slogger - exactly what I need. The loco appears to be very good value for a prototype that was small in number and few would have expected to be available as RTR. I think I will be very chuffed when it arrives, it looks a beaut'..... :-)

 

My thoughts entirely except I'm too lazy to change the smokebox stays, if they are assembled well that'll do me. An un-recorded Swindon modification.

 

Handsome model indeed here is my edited pic from the Rails original,  and thanks adb968008 for the previous posts today for showing us the engine and internals.  

 

will remove if required, and I would understand if people tired of my illustrations. I can even understand the slight errors in smokebox front being annoying, slightly 'wrong' but, ah well...   

 

 

p.s. I have now been charged for the green one above and the BR one so expect delivery in the next week or so.  Then I can do proper photos!

 

edit;  truly amazing that this long-lived and beautiful steam loco should be done so well in RTR, I think it will sell ok.   But then Hornby may have thought that about their King!

Edited April 3, 2018 by robmcg

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... Looks like a coreless motor...

 Don't think so. Heljan have fitted this style and size of cylindrical can motor in their OO narrow bodied diesels and steam models, and the description is consistently '3 pole can', with no mention of the 'c' word so I would assume a regular iron core job.

[JSpencer]

Some great detailed photos being posted here. I hope the wonky running plate and slightly up turned buffer bean are an exception are not a norm. I still find this sort of thing disturbing on my Hornby 72XX each time it runs.

[coachmann]

Some great detailed photos being posted here. I hope the wonky running plate and slightly up turned buffer bean are an exception are not a norm. I still find this sort of thing disturbing on my Hornby 72XX each time it runs.

I expect it will happen at times until more manufacturers adopt metal running plates with their useful weight. One modellers workaround would surely be to replace the support rods with metal ones to force the running plate down. It is unlikely I will buy one for a while, so I cannot test the theory.

[Horsetan]

I expect it will happen at times until more manufacturers adopt metal running plates with their useful weight. ....

 

As long as said metal doesn't contain impurities resulting in crumbling disintegration later on.....

[Metr0Land]

As long as said metal doesn't contain impurities resulting in crumbling disintegration later on.....

 

Is it normal for members of your profession to talk a lot of rot?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Is it normal for members of your profession to talk a lot of rot?

 In the interest of balance, the legal profession is very much into precedent.

[Horsetan]

Is it normal for members of your profession to talk a lot of rot?

 

No more than your lot.

[coachmann]

As long as said metal doesn't contain impurities resulting in crumbling disintegration later on.....

The Oxford Rail Dean Goods has a metal running plate, so I assumed the of problem of mazak or similar had been overcome by now. After all, EFE and Corgi model road vehicles seem to be fine.

[rovex]

Is it normal for members of your profession to talk a lot of rot?

 

 

 In the interest of balance, the legal profession is very much into precedent.

 

 

No more than your lot.

 

Its nice to see the level of debate on RMWeb continues to be so highbrow

[OnTheBranchline]

My thoughts entirely except I'm too lazy to change the smokebox stays, if they are assembled well that'll do me. An un-recorded Swindon modification.

 

Handsome model indeed here is my edited pic from the Rails original,  and thanks adb968008 for the previous posts today for showing us the engine and internals.  

 

will remove if required, and I would understand if people tired of my illustrations. I can even understand the slight errors in smokebox front being annoying, slightly 'wrong' but, ah well...   

 

4704_47XX_portrait1_4a_r1200.jpg

 

p.s. I have now been charged for the green one above and the BR one so expect delivery in the next week or so.  Then I can do proper photos!

 

edit;  truly amazing that this long-lived and beautiful steam loco should be done so well in RTR, I think it will sell ok.   But then Hornby may have thought that about their King!

 

Reminds me of a picture in GWRJ No 5 where a fireman talked about an experience he had on a 47xx.

[Metr0Land]

Its nice to see the level of debate on RMWeb continues to be so highbrow

 

err it was all tongue in cheek matey.  Do we have to put smiley emoticons every time we post something in jest?  Horsetan was talking about mazak rot (as i understand it) and 34C merely added to it by saying the legal profession always/often work on precedent (assuming you realise HT works in said field?)

[adb968008]

Nice work and thanks for sharing. Do you know if drive is onto third or fourth coupled axle?

It’s onto the 3rd axle from the front.

 

The frame, cabs etc are all plastic, the “weight” is in the solid metal motor unit that slides into the boiler and runs the entire length of it.

 

I don’t know as I’ve seen a steam loco built this way before, but it’s definitely an nice improvement.

The boiler and Firebox is integral, and removable much like the real thing, but unlike most rtr is a fully conical barrel, most rtr is a 3/4 barrel, with a metal barrel underside as part of a chassis block, which when you look at it you can see the lines separating the pieces, or a vertical motor in the firebox.

 

It also makes for easy repairs, no wires connect the frames to the motor, it’s metal contacts. Just lift off the boiler, slide out the motor block. (There are wires from the motor block to the motor itself).

 

DCC fitting is similarly interesting, remove the tool box lids, and the tender tank hatch, to remove the tank and put in the DCC chip.

Edited April 4, 2018 by adb968008