7007GreatWestern Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) In addition to Mike's list I'd like to add a couple of additional areas that let the loco down. The crossheads appear to be almost entirely devoid of relief and detail. Also the tender brake hangers and blocks look distinctly malnourished, but they are at least inline with the wheels. The latter can be upgraded using parts from various sources, though the Alan Gibson ones (4M103) are conveniently injection moulded plastic. You know, I can't help feel there's a pretty decent model of the 47xx 'in there' just fighting to get out! To my eyes it captures some of the distinctive features of the loco well, such as the massive bulk of the No. 7 boiler with its extremely long smokebox. There's also a nice representation of the elliptical roofline of the cab (only the Kings, Castles, Counties and 4700s had such a roof profile) and the chimney is captured well. There are many areas of the model that leave room for improvement, but fortunately most of them are relatively minor items that could be improved by the owner sourcing appropriate detailing parts. I sense that Messrs Alan Gibson, Peter's Spares, Markits and maybe Brassmasters will be doing good business soon! To me the biggest unanswered question is the drive arrangement. The close-up photographs confirm that there is no gear tower above the third coupled axle. It has been suggested on this thread that the third axle may be driven using a gear train similar to that on the Bachmann 9F (a notably good runner). Alternatively drive may be direct onto the fourth axle. As things stand my attitude to this loco is that there's more right with it than wrong with it, at least in the looks department. Given some of the accounts from other RMWebbers, being an 'early adopter' of a new Heljan steam outline model is a perilous undertaking. Such is my liking for these locos I suspect my heart is going to rule my head..... Andy. Edited April 1, 2018 by 7007GreatWestern 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrySVR Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Thanks for comments there's a lot that needs doing to make this better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndg910 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Some useful observations. As Andy 7007 GW says, there is an engine fighting to get out. I have to admit to being underwhelmed. Am hopeful of a mag or YouTube review soon. This was high on my wish list but I’m in two minds now. I will probably end up with one but for now my Halls will remain rostered to my van train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I’m not sure I follow your argument John. If it does sell, and doesn’t get discounted and hence “discourages” Heljan, then Heljan could be perfectly entitled to draw the conclusion that it was good enough for the market and produce any future models to a similar, lower standard. I don’t think we are all losers if a manufacturer opts to exit rather than produce inaccurate models. I’d rather the market showed that high fidelity, robust, well engineered models see better and make manufacturers more money. For me, I’m waiting to see a professional review. David I couldn't agree more, assuming that your scenario occurs. My scenario predicates that this situation will not arise, and that all concerned - producer, retailer, potential customer - find the model to be something of a disappointment. It must be remembered that the mass market, such as it is, most likely believes that model trains mean Hornby - or Bachmann as well, if they are a tad more well-informed. So the market for the more recent / less-well-known producers is inevitably skewed towards the more informed modeller, who will mostly require greater accuracy / more detail. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted March 31, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 31, 2018 As with any other model, if you like it then buy it. The fact that others are criticising it is no reason for others to bail out. However, whilst I wouldn't call this a "bad" model neither would I call it a good one, it sits in that grey area of being OK whilst being simultaneously disappointing I think. The problem is it isn't particularly cheap, and I'd probably expect a bit more than "Railroad+" at that price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Ultra-critical reviews like these are ilkely to encourage those saying they will wait for price reductions. This might not be a good plan. Given the number of GW modellers, and given this is an interesting class with no previous RTR models and few kit-builts in evidence on exhibition layouts, my view is these will sell like hotcakes. No connection with Heljan and just my opinion, as someone who nowadays weighs up very carefully whether to pre-order, wait-and-see, or wait for the sales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 John I think you’re missing my point. I’m not commenting as to which scenario occurs. Merely both are a sub optimal outcome. Either the manufacturer loses money and doesn’t take the risk of producing another model (your scenario) or the converse of a model with many flaws falsely encourages them to develop similarly flawed models. Neither is a good outcome. David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7007GreatWestern Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 As with any other model, if you like it then buy it. The fact that others are criticising it is no reason for others to bail out. However, whilst I wouldn't call this a "bad" model neither would I call it a good one, it sits in that grey area of being OK whilst being simultaneously disappointing I think. The problem is it isn't particularly cheap, and I'd probably expect a bit more than "Railroad+" at that price. The model is undoubtedly a 'curate's egg', both good and disappointing in parts. But then that's been the case with so many of the GWR rtr models released in recent years. The Bachmann 'Modified Hall' & 64xx, Dapol Railcar, DJM 14xx, Oxford 'Dean Goods', Hornby 'King', 'Hall' and 'Eight Coupled Tanks" have all had their detractors, sometimes over body detail and sometimes over chassis performance. That hasn't stopped me acquiring and enjoying most of the them! I'd be interested to see an owner's poll of the most highly rated OO gauge GWR locos. I could be wrong but something tells me that 'old timers' like the Hornby 'Castle' & 'Grange' along with the Bachmann 'Small Prairie' and 57xx would still be 'Kings of the Hill' all these years later. Regarding the price of the 47xx, it really depends on how you look at it. For £150 you are getting one big, powerful tender engine of similar scale as a 'King' or 'Castle'. Given that an 0-6-0 Saddle Tank can now set you back £135 it looks like a (relative) bargain! Set against that is the fact the cost of these models is rising at a rate much higher than UK wages or interest and for £150 a lot of folks want a model that requires no further work or expense. My own view is that a lot of the cosmetic issues on this model could be put right at little expense. When you look at Stationmaster Mike's list there isn't much there that requires radical butchery to make it right. I wonder if CJL of this parish would be up for doing an article on upgrading the model? The $6 million dollar question however is the chassis and no amount of cosmetic improvement will redeem the model if the chassis is a pup. Andy. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 31, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) On reflection, the aspect of this model as so far illustrated that really bothers me is the front running plate/strut area. Nothing else looks likely to require so much work or expense as to put me off, though the mechanism is (at this stage) still an unknown quantity. I have a BR green one on order through my local dealer, so the earlier releases will have been evaluated and tested by others before mine arrives, but I'll be taking a very close look at it before accepting delivery.......... John Edited March 31, 2018 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7007GreatWestern Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) On reflection, the aspect of this model as so far illustrated that really bothers me is the front running plate/strut area. John Just a thought, but maybe if Heljan's metal struts are detached from the front running plate it might actually sit correctly. Also, just a thought, they might be replaced by Hornby's spare part X6210 which contains their rather nice cosmetic struts for the 28xx. No guarantees of any of that working of course..... Andy. Edited March 31, 2018 by 7007GreatWestern 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 In reading this rather interesting thread, and not being overly-oriented towards the GWR I would still be interested in a 4XX because I like the engines and the work they did, including the summer weekend passenger work. With the handrail fault in the Rails 4704 pic being an obvious assembly/handling fault I have taken the liberty of correcting it by editing, below, I have also shown the driver's side view, both with the shiny axle-ends and motion wheel-nuts darkened, all of which would be quite easy to do. Also a bit of vignetting, nothing else. So this represents to me something of how it would look almost straight from the box. Will remove if required. I think it's a pretty impressive model, but not being very GWR-oriented maybe I'm blind. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7007GreatWestern Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 ..........not being overly-oriented towards the GWR....... May The Lord have mercy on your soul my friend. Still, redemption is available at any time and I think you've earned some with your work in Photoshop...... Andy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) May The Lord have mercy on your soul my friend. Still, redemption is available at any time and I think you've earned some with your work in Photoshop...... Andy. Well, when your mother was born in Guildford, what can you do? I'm prepared to admit that Swindon may have had one or two good ideas, early on... oh and the Summer Saturday trains out west must have been very impressive! I think a weathered early black BR version would be very very impressive. I will concoct something now doubt. When I use Rails pics I generally buy the model in question too. I am wondering if the rivet detail will be so prominent in natural light, the other details like the lance cock, well, it's a shame they are not well done but a keen buyer can add these things. edit; were there differences in 47XX smokebox front proportions or have Heljan got that a bit wrong? I am FWIW a big Garratt fan and well-pleased with the many Heljan versions of that I have owned Edited March 31, 2018 by robmcg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) Confectioners will be stocking them..... Edited March 31, 2018 by coachmann 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) Confectioners will be stocking them..... WEB GWR 47XX 2 copy.jpg Thankyou Larry, that's a lovely picture. I'll take a mixed assortment please. Mind you, that other shop over the road might be cheaper.... Gotta admit a weathered BR black version could look pretty impressive. I am on the point of buying one, which I will weather myself. Cheers edit the deed is done, and I bought a GWR green one too. Are there any medical side-effects I should look out for? Edited March 31, 2018 by robmcg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I just sat down to watch an old movie and guess what..... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 John I think you’re missing my point. I’m not commenting as to which scenario occurs. Merely both are a sub optimal outcome. Either the manufacturer loses money and doesn’t take the risk of producing another model (your scenario) or the converse of a model with many flaws falsely encourages them to develop similarly flawed models. Neither is a good outcome. David Agreed. John. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted March 31, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 31, 2018 Oh dear. I'm having a hard time not justifying having one... Are you absolutely, positively sure they didn't work past Severn Tunnel Junction, or Gloucester? If there's one available, I'll have one for Christmas. Or perhaps, 40-odd milk tankers to make the rake up properly. Decisions, decisions! Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Rails have the first versions in stock now. Dear Hilux, I am holding you personally and entirely responsible for my purchase today 1/4/2018 of two of the above models; GWR green 4704 from Rails and BR black 4706 from AJM trains. An immediate payment of NZ$590 directly today into my Paypal account, with my email address as payee, will suffice for the moment. Cordially yours, (A picture of BR black 4706 will undoubtedly be a result of this adventure in fast goods and holiday relief workings) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) As threatened, a couple of Rails pics with a few minor editing touches; blackened axles and rod bolts, de-saturated and vignetted, will remove if required. also a couple of poor reproductions by me of 47XXs from M W Earley's book 'Truly the Great Western' by Oxford Publishing, apologies for poor quality but in't nice to get in the mood of GWR fast goods trains... cheers Edited April 1, 2018 by robmcg 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted April 1, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 1, 2018 Ill happily take the black one off your hands via trademe if your not happy with it lol 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted April 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) May The Lord have mercy on your soul my friend. Still, redemption is available at any time and I think you've earned some with your work in Photoshop...... Andy. Swindon didn’t innovate too many new products, but the masterpiece it did produce undoubtably was William Stanier, a class of 1 but unfortunately we’re unable to keep him, I suppose the second one is wartime 8f’s, and third would be the County 4-6-0.. as that uses a Stanier boiler.The place scrapped LNER V2”s so it wasn’t all bad. Edited April 1, 2018 by adb968008 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 1, 2018 Oh dear. I'm having a hard time not justifying having one... Are you absolutely, positively sure they didn't work past Severn Tunnel Junction, or Gloucester? If there's one available, I'll have one for Christmas. Or perhaps, 40-odd milk tankers to make the rake up properly. Decisions, decisions! Ian. Apart from a previous mention of David Maidment's book talking about them working to Cardiff during the war they were very firmly barred from entry into South Wales by all three potential routes (I do of course exclude the Brecon & Merthyr and Manchester & Milford routes where they would obviously have been an impossibility and clearly it's pointless to consider the routes owned at one time by lesser railways). And unlike the situation with the 'Kings' things never changed for the 47XX although it is reported on one website that 4701 went to Cashmores at Newport for conversion into scrap (no doubt hauled dead). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Swindon didn’t innovate too many new products, This is the trouble with enthusiast thinking... Swindon innovated better manufacture, better bearing design, better locomotive testing, better safety, the list goes on, but enthusiasts have the mantra that not fitting outside valve gear and high degree superheat, both things which have disadvantages as well as advantages, means they weren't doing any development. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted April 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) Apart from a previous mention of David Maidment's book talking about them working to Cardiff during the war they were very firmly barred from entry into South Wales by all three potential routes (I do of course exclude the Brecon & Merthyr and Manchester & Milford routes where they would obviously have been an impossibility and clearly it's pointless to consider the routes owned at one time by lesser railways). And unlike the situation with the 'Kings' things never changed for the 47XX although it is reported on one website that 4701 went to Cashmores at Newport for conversion into scrap (no doubt hauled dead). We once had a Western route colour map at Pontypridd Junction, basically what could go where, what was disallowed, etc. I don't know what became of it. The late Eric Mountford once had a notification that one was on it's way to Caerphilly Works, but was stopped at Bath Road. Ian. Edited April 1, 2018 by tomparryharry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now