Heljan GWR 47xx Night Owl

[SWTDriver]

When I opened the box and took the model out my disappointment at the sample photos was confirmed and in addition to what I posted previously I found the following defects:

 

1. The pony truck wheel had never been fitted and was merrily rattling about in the box

 

2. Only one support bracket from the buffer-beam to the underside of the smokebox was present - even though I searched all the packaging I could not locate the other bracket.

 

3. The handrail at the front left hand side of the boiler is loose and will not remain in place.

 

4. The presence of a long horizontal moulding line along the left hand side of the boiler which really detracts from the appearance of the model.

 

The packaging was in no way damaged so it is fair to assume that it was like it when packed. I know that these seem like little things, but when you are paying £152 for a model they are basics that should have been put right. I really wanted to like this model as the 47xx was a great loco, they just haven't done it justice.

 

This will be the first time I have ever sent a model back and getting a refund.

 

     

Edited April 4, 2018 by SWTDriver

[gwrrob]

 

 

 

This will be the first time I have ever sent a model back and getting a refund.

 

     

 

 

Glad you're not putting up with this carp and sending it back.

[81C]

err it was all tongue in cheek matey.  Do we have to put smiley emoticons every time we post something in jest?  Horsetan was talking about mazak rot (as i understand it) and 34C merely added to it by saying the legal profession always/often work on precedent (assuming you realise HT works in said field?)

It helps, who knows what the nasty B'stard brigade on here could make of it if you don't. 

BTW your post was funny .

 

Baring the fun above I collected mine from the store today 3 were rejected with bent front ends I came away happy with a straight one .  

 

[adb968008]

As an FYI, the reason for my loose frame support was the hole drilled into the firebox does not fully penetrate the plastic on one side. The other side was fully drilled so it sat correctly inside.

Hence I dismantled it, to find the 1 piece boiler/smokebox/firebox unit.. but it made for drilling out the hole a doddle (0.8mm drill) and easy to reassemble.

I found my frame support in the holding tray under the folding cardboard seams... I really had to dig inside the tray to find it.

I knew it must be there as it definitely didn’t fall out !

Good luck.

 

First test for mine tonight, i’ll be putting my other new toy, a new rtr Wi-fi enabled digital dynamometer car behind it, It measures gradient, speed, camber and distance graphs and reports from the track to in realtime to my laptop and put the graphs here, been dying to test it. :-)

Edited April 4, 2018 by adb968008

[rovex]

err it was all tongue in cheek matey. Do we have to put smiley emoticons every time we post something in jest? Horsetan was talking about mazak rot (as i understand it) and 34C merely added to it by saying the legal profession always/often work on precedent (assuming you realise HT works in said field?)

As indeed was my comment. Tongue in cheek that is.

 

And just to prove it ☺

[88D]

Re the p roblems with the front end poking up: am I right that the stays were introduced by Churchward to prevent the front from poking down? If so, these Heljan stays have been too successful. Insert an emoticon of your choice here.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The staying was introduced to prevent frame deformation after experience gained in service. The precise deformation would vary by the impact causing it, though bent upwards would be my guess as most common: since anything crushed in the impact that then went under the bufferbeam would tend to lift the front end, while the weight of the loco kept most of it on the rails. The bending would then occur in the weak barframed portion ahead of the cylinders.

 

(It is not far to look in collections of steam era railway photographs to find variously crushed wagons. I rather wonder what the annual rate of wagon destruction was.)

[robmcg]

I have to say I'm really quite nervous about the integrity of the front end on the two models I have bought but are yet to arrive in NZ (different retailers), GW green and BR black, as well as general quality control..

 

If any faults are repairable I will do my best, but otherwise I will have to pay for post back to the UK which is a major nuisance (and about £25) even if the retailer eventually reimburses that cost. It doesn't include to time wasted and so on.    This issue is present not just for these Heljan beauties but also Hornby and Bachmann RTR models.

 

Still, if we are to insist on RTR at lowest possible cost then I guess we have to take risks...

[adb968008]

I have to say I'm really quite nervous about the integrity of the front end on the two models I have bought but are yet to arrive in NZ (different retailers), GW green and BR black, as well as general quality control..

 

If any faults are repairable I will do my best, but otherwise I will have to pay for post back to the UK which is a major nuisance (and about £25) even if the retailer eventually reimburses that cost. It doesn't include to time wasted and so on. This issue is present not just for these Heljan beauties but also Hornby and Bachmann RTR models.

 

Still, if we are to insist on RTR at lowest possible cost then I guess we have to take risks...

Have confidence Rob.

It might have a cosmetic niggle, but I don’t see the issues with a Garratt replicating on the 47xx.

 

It does feel to me this model has a lot of lessons learned in it and some nice innovations.

Indeed I’ve got to stop taking it apart (as it’s easy enough), but each time I do I find a new way that something has been done... new way of wiring, new more accurate style of connecting rod bolts, new way of designing a motor fitting, interesting method of DCC config, full conical barrel.

Indeed I hope other manufacturers follow this way of doing things.

 

I should add those conversing about a mazak chassis will be disappointed.. below the boiler it’s mostly plastic, bar the cylinders/wheels/rods.. (just noted that the rods are painted graphite not darkened metal)...similar finish to DJModels rods..but these are metal. I also noted how “In true” it is on my rolling road some models vibrate so much the rollers themselves dance on the frame.. this is very much tight.

 

There is a lot different about this model but in a good way.

 

My order for the Green one definitely remains good.

 

Am frustrated from giving this a test run tonight by a little one that won’t sleep, so i’m itching for an early morning run, she knows i’m excited, as I know when I finally give the beans it’s going to out pull a lot of other stuff I have. I guess it’s the first model known to stop kids from sleeping purely due to excited parents.

Edited April 4, 2018 by adb968008

[robmcg]

Have confidence Rob.

It might have a cosmetic niggle, but I don’t see the issues with a Garratt replicating on the 47xx.

 

It does feel to me this model has a lot of lessons learned in it and some nice innovations.

Indeed I’ve got to stop taking it apart (as it’s easy enough), but each time I do I find a new way that something has been done... new way of wiring, new more accurate style of connecting rod bolts, new way of designing a motor fitting, interesting method of DCC config, full conical barrel.

Indeed I hope other manufacturers follow this way of doing things.

 

I should add those conversing about a mazak chassis will be disappointed.. below the boiler it’s mostly plastic, bar the cylinders/wheels/rods.. (just noted that the rods are painted graphite not darkened metal)...similar finish to DJModels rods..but these are metal. I also noted how “In true” it is on my rolling road some models vibrate so much the rollers themselves dance on the frame.. this is very much tight.

 

There is a lot different about this model but in a good way.

 

My order for the Green one definitely remains good.

 

Am frustrated from giving this a test run tonight by a little one that won’t sleep, so i’m itching for an early morning run, she knows i’m excited, as I know when I finally give the beans it’s going to out pull a lot of other stuff I have. I guess it’s the first model known to stop kids from sleeping purely due to excited parents.

 

Thanks for that answer adb968008, when I think about it a good proportion of the models I buy from the UK are faulty in one way or another, as are second-hand models I buy here in NZ (I trade a bit), sometimes courier handling, sometimes fragile models, usually a combination, so slightly bent front ends can be fixed or improved somewhat, should they occur.

 

It's in the nature of modern 00 RTR purchased via the web really. And yes I had never thought of the effect on kids!

 

Best

[MG 7305]

To me the most annoying issue is the way the back of the tender tank sits plumb on the back of the framing and so there is no lip there. It is going to be a bit of a swine to correct.

 

Best regards

[JSpencer]

First test for mine tonight, i’ll be putting my other new toy, a new rtr Wi-fi enabled digital dynamometer car behind it, It measures gradient, speed, camber and distance graphs and reports from the track to in realtime to my laptop and put the graphs here, been dying to test it. :-)

 

That sounds a nice bit of kit. Going OT where did you buy it please?

 

I wonder if the rails LNER one will do all that ;-)

Edited April 5, 2018 by JSpencer

[No Decorum]

That sounds a nice bit of kit. Going OT where did you buy it please?

 

I wonder if the rails LNER one will do all that ;-)

When I read adb’s post, my first reaction was to check the date. As for the Rails version, for £125 I‘d expect it to do some of those things!

[tomparryharry]

Just doing a bit of harmless googling last night...

 

It appears a humble Baccy  goods van now commands in the order of £20.

 

A quick bit of mental calculation  tells me that a scale length train (70 wagons) will set you back about £1,425, with its brakevan

 

So, what do I do? A holiday, or assembling a scale length train?

 

"Sorry love, you're on your own this year....".

 

Cheers,

 

*** ( Names withheld to protect the (not so) innocent).

[rovex]

Just doing a bit of harmless googling last night...

 

It appears a humble Baccy  goods van now commands in the order of £20.

 

A quick bit of mental calculation  tells me that a scale length train (70 wagons) will set you back about £1,425, with its brakevan

 

So, what do I do? A holiday, or assembling a scale length train?

 

"Sorry love, you're on your own this year....".

 

Cheers,

 

*** ( Names withheld to protect the (not so) innocent).

 

You forgot to factor in the cost of having a model railway big enough to run it on

[JSpencer]

Just doing a bit of harmless googling last night...

 

It appears a humble Baccy  goods van now commands in the order of £20.

 

A quick bit of mental calculation  tells me that a scale length train (70 wagons) will set you back about £1,425, with its brakevan

 

So, what do I do? A holiday, or assembling a scale length train?

 

"Sorry love, you're on your own this year....".

 

Cheers,

 

*** ( Names withheld to protect the (not so) innocent).

 

Nah it will be "this year my dear, I propose a romantic 2 weeks in the railway room where we can watch a 47xx go by twice a day with 70 wagons". Go for it, I'm sure she will find it original.

Edited April 5, 2018 by JSpencer

[leavesontheline]

You forgot to factor in the cost of having a model railway big enough to run it on

And the divorce settlement....!

[tomparryharry]

You forgot to factor in the cost of having a model railway big enough to run it on

 

That is very true. It's a bit out of place on my 4 foot shunting plank.

 

In my teens, I well remember seeing an (much older) railway club member being rapturous about a model 8f hauling about 5 wagons. In the meantime, 60 wagon loads were commonplace. I've always tried to run scale length trains ever since. Sometimes I'm lucky, sometimes not. It doesn't stop me trying, though!

 

Cheers,

 

Ian. (Blast! That's my cover blown!).

[adb968008]

Here's my drawbar testing on the rolling road, finally going to move it to the layout and put it to my wifi test car. 

 

It's up there with the Hornby Class 71 and Bachmann class 40 and next to my Bachmann A1 amongst my most powerful UK outline steam locomotive (though not European). The result for 45156 below is skewed.. it's got extra weight and magnets fitted for an aborted DCC concepts power base test.

Edited April 5, 2018 by adb968008

[JSpencer]

Here's my drawbar testing on the rolling road, finally going to move it to the layout and put it to my wifi test car. 

 

It's up there with the Hornby Class 71 and Bachmann class 40 and next to my Bachmann A1 amongst my most powerful UK outline steam locomotive (though not European). The result for 45156 below is skewed.. it's got extra weight and magnets fitted for an aborted DCC concepts power base test.

Results.png

 

 

Thanks for this but not sure if I fully understand the graph. It seems to imply that a Bachmann 04 diesel has more pulling power than a 47XX, class 71 and others. Which is surely incorrect!

[JimC]

So, what do I do? A holiday, or assembling a scale length train?

Gradients are your friend... According to my copy of GWR Goods wagons whilst the 47 was rated for 70 10 ton equivalent on gradients up to 1:190, on a 1:45 they were limited to about 21. So if your fast fitted freight mustn't stop for a banker and there is a big bank somewhere on the route then your traffic folk will be forced to reduce the train considerably. 

[tomparryharry]

Gradients are your friend... According to my copy of GWR Goods wagons whilst the 47 was rated for 70 10 ton equivalent on gradients up to 1:190, on a 1:45 they were limited to about 21. So if your fast fitted freight mustn't stop for a banker and there is a big bank somewhere on the route then your traffic folk will be forced to reduce the train considerably.

I think I prefer the full length diagram, with a 43xx on the pilot....

 

Ian.

[adb968008]

Thanks for this but not sure if I fully understand the graph. It seems to imply that a Bachmann 04 diesel has more pulling power than a 47XX, class 71 and others. Which is surely incorrect!

I agree, the decimal point was in the wrong place, that one is an error, its 7.5g and the worst !

 

the 1432 is correct however, the old 14xx with traction tyres pulls the house down.

Edited April 5, 2018 by adb968008

[JSpencer]

I agree, the decimal point was in the wrong place, that one is an error, its 7.5g and the worst !

 

the 1432 is correct however, the old 14xx with traction tyres pulls the house down.

 

Aha. There are still a couple of things which escape me though. It seems to imply that the Black 5 and A1 are stronger than the Bachmann class 40. My one, which is from the latest tooling will out pull both of those locos easily. I mean I am surprised to a see a model (black 5) at 251g pulls as much as one at 616g (class 40).

[Methuselah]

Fascinating to see the innovative features on this new loco. With regards to pulling power - it seems that it will pull scale-length trains too. It just gets better. Has anyone worked-out what ratio the gearbox is yet?