Class 800 - Updates

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, Zomboid said:

It's strange that they have such a bad ride, because Hitachi can definitely build high speed trains which ride properly. You can barely tell a shinkansen is moving at all when it's doing 150mph+. I guess the track is a lot better than ours, but their narrow gauge trains are generally good riders too.

The Javelins were fairly rough when first introduced, especially at the transition between conventional and slab track; I believe the suspension was adjusted; certainly my recent rides have been much smoother.

[Coryton]

2 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I had reserved a window seat only to be confronted with a blank wall where the door retracts to when open, as there appears to be plenty of room for the door to slide the other way and give a window bay in the saloon!

 

 

Not nice when that happens.

 

I suspect that the door can't go the other way because of the taper needed to reduce the effect of end-throw.

 

Of course door designs do exist that don't have to slide either way.

 

I think the seats might be softening up a bit, because on my more recent journeys (~ 2 hours) I haven't found them particularly uncomfortable.

 

Or maybe I've developed more personal padding, so to speak, since then.

[Ken.W]

Well, that's the Azuma training off to a good start...

Day 1 and...

 

 

the simulator broke down

[Titan]

7 minutes ago, Ken.W said:

Well, that's the Azuma training off to a good start...

Day 1 and...

 

 

the simulator broke down

 

Sounds very realistic.

[royaloak]

1 hour ago, Ken.W said:

Well, that's the Azuma training off to a good start...

Day 1 and...

 

 

the simulator broke down

Very prototypical then.

[Chris116]

3 hours ago, Ken.W said:

Well, that's the Azuma training off to a good start...

Day 1 and...

 

 

the simulator broke down

At least you won't have been three hours late like the new Caledonian Sleeper was last night! 

[RJS1977]

9 hours ago, Coryton said:

 

Not nice when that happens.

 

I suspect that the door can't go the other way because of the taper needed to reduce the effect of end-throw.

 

Of course door designs do exist that don't have to slide either way.

 

I think the seats might be softening up a bit, because on my more recent journeys (~ 2 hours) I haven't found them particularly uncomfortable.

 

Or maybe I've developed more personal padding, so to speak, since then.

 

I found the seats quite 'firm' the first time I travelled on one (probably because it wasn't what I was used to) but they've seemed OK since, although not as soft as an HST. Whether I've got used to them, or whether as you say, they're softening up with use, I can't say. But they're no harder than my chair at work!

[Chris116]

2 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 

.....  But they're no harder than my chair at work!

I think you need to demand a new chair at work! 

[Coryton]

20 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

At least you won't have been three hours late like the new Caledonian Sleeper was last night! 

 

I used to like it when I got the sleeper in a homewards direction and it was late.

 

Where else do you get a lie-in and money back for it?

[Gwiwer]

Just dropping in with an update on experience.

 

Saturday saw m aboard the 13.03 off Paddington formed of 2x802.  Passengers were allowed to board, take their seats and generally settle in some ten minutes before the reservation system was switched on.  There was then an announcement advising anyone sitting in a reserved seat to move unless in their own reservation.  Cue a large number of disgruntled passengers.

 

Catering was offered by way of the normal mobile trolleys in first class and by static trolleys in standard class though the latter were not available until well into the journey around Bruton.  

 

The ride was uncomfortable with constant vibration coming through the inadequate seat padding and occasional lurches and crashing noises.

 

Yesterday I returned from Taunton choosing the 16.39 via Bristol over the 16.30 via the Berks & Hants which was advertised as "Full and Standing" on the information screens.  It was certainly well filled but I didn't notice any standing passengers. It was also advertised as having refreshments in only the front portion and was formed 2x800.   The 16.39 was then advertised as having no refreshments at all and turned up formed of a 9-car 802.  Indeed there were no refreshments, not even for first class, which is a woeful situation for a journey of six hours or so with the train having started at Plymouth.  

 

The reservations were all carded with the electronic system not in use.  I bagged an unclaimed one from "Plymouth to Paddington" whose occupant might have been elsewhere in the train in an unreserved seat.  That happens all too often and is not enforced though helps no-one.  It should be made clear that a ticket with reservation is only valid in the booked seat.  This train was also quite busy and did good intermediate business along the way.  As it forms part of the regular Bristol - London service it was no surprise that it filled up at Temple Meads.

 

We were unlucky to have a 30-minute delay at Bath while a seriously ill passenger was removed to hospital.  We were unlucky to be caught in the tail-end of the West Drayton fire line closure.  We arrived at Paddington around 40 minutes down.  The ride was every bit the vibro-massage of the way down but the diabolical and alarming lurches, bangs and crashes at full speed caused considerable consternation on board.  What ever the cause(s) this simply should not happen on a modern and almost-new train.  The vibration seems to arise as much from the suspension working as the diesels powering since there was no noticeable difference in that problem between traction modes.  

 

In neither direction did any member of staff walk through at any point during my travels; anyone requiring assistance would have been left to seek it themselves and anyone travelling without a ticket could have easily done so albeit they might have  been challenged by station entry / exit gates.

 

Altogether not a pleasant experience.  Feedback has been provided to GWR.

 

 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

The GW reservations system is a shambles at the moment.

[Market65]

We do seem to have replicated perfectly all the very bad riding problems of the Blue Pullmans. I am not looking forward to my first journey in a class 800. Such a shame we are in this dreadful situation. 

 

Rob.

[royaloak]

1 hour ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

The GW reservations system is a shambles at the moment.

The GW reservation system only works (using the term loosely) on the 2x5 coach sets due to 'software' issues, it is hoped to have it working on the 9 coach sets 'shortly', 

[caradoc]

On 29/04/2019 at 21:44, Peter Kazmierczak said:

The GW reservations system is a shambles at the moment.

 

Not only that, they still cannot get the basics right; Yesterday I watched the 0901 to Paddington depart Oxford, formed of a single 5-car Class 800: Both the platform displays and automated announcements stated First Class at the front; It was of course at the back.

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by caradoc
Spelling mistake

[jim.snowdon]

10 hours ago, Market65 said:

We do seem to have replicated perfectly all the very bad riding problems of the Blue Pullmans. I am not looking forward to my first journey in a class 800. Such a shame we are in this dreadful situation. 

 

Rob.

Poor ride quality is a function of both train and track, and in the circumstances a good thing to check before blaming the train designers would be what the specification said in terms of defining the quality of the track on which these trains are expected to run. It is quite possible that the actual track does not come to what is in the specification in terms of its geometry and quality.

 

Jim

[Coryton]

12 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

The reservations were all carded with the electronic system not in use.  I bagged an unclaimed one from "Plymouth to Paddington" whose occupant might have been elsewhere in the train in an unreserved seat.  That happens all too often and is not enforced though helps no-one.  It should be made clear that a ticket with reservation is only valid in the booked seat.  

 

I wouldn't say that it helps no-one - it helps people (like you and me) who are aware that you can take unclaimed seats, rather than just seeing a reservation placard and moving on...

 

I don't know about you, but if I had specifically booked a window seat and found myself up against a blank wall, I'd find one with a real window if possible and argue the point with any member of staff who chose to suggest that I should have realised the technical meaning of "window" on today's railways is "against a wall which may or may not have a transparent portion".

 

(I think there is a "window view" flag somewhere in the reservation system - I don't know if it's implemented for 800's).

[Mallard60022]

7 hours ago, Coryton said:

 

I wouldn't say that it helps no-one - it helps people (like you and me) who are aware that you can take unclaimed seats, rather than just seeing a reservation placard and moving on...

 

I don't know about you, but if I had specifically booked a window seat and found myself up against a blank wall, I'd find one with a real window if possible and argue the point with any member of staff who chose to suggest that I should have realised the technical meaning of "window" on today's railways is "against a wall which may or may not have a transparent portion".

 

(I think there is a "window view" flag somewhere in the reservation system - I don't know if it's implemented for 800's).

Not on 800s but half the time on my journeys on the ECML I find someone sitting in 'my' reserved seat and if there are plenty of other vacant or not reserved I would/do use those, especially if it is in a better position or one of those single sat the end of a Unit. I have had to speak in a rather assertive way, after asking perfectly politely, to some folk who just won't move their great heaps of baggage or rubbish from what should be 'my' reserved seat as well on a really crowed train and I hate that as it causes an unfriendly sort of atmosphere. Their problem though so I don't really care but I do feel sorry for the many, what are probably less experienced travellers who often  seem to be ill at ease with this sort of situation. How the Guard/ Train Manager/ Ticket person manage with some really unpleasant 'customers' amazes me.  

Phil

Edited April 30, 2019 by Mallard60022

[Bomag]

2 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

Poor ride quality is a function of both train and track, and in the circumstances a good thing to check before blaming the train designers would be what the specification said in terms of defining the quality of the track on which these trains are expected to run. It is quite possible that the actual track does not come to what is in the specification in terms of its geometry and quality.

 

Jim

 

If 800 performs worse on the same track as a 45 year old BT10 Mk 3 then it is not going to be the track which is the main problem.

[jim.snowdon]

51 minutes ago, Bomag said:

 

If 800 performs worse on the same track as a 45 year old BT10 Mk 3 then it is not going to be the track which is the main problem.

Not necessarily. Hitachi (like any commercial contractor) will have designed their train to meet a specification, and if that specification is wrong, it's not their problem. The Mk3 and its bogies were designed by BR engineers who almost certainly knew more about what was really out there and weren't constrained by a commercial contract.

 

Jim

[Siberian Snooper]

The ride quality was such that over time it will start to manifest itself in structural failure somewhere or other and yes I have seen structural failure caused by prolonged vibration, it only needs a small flaw in either the original material or jointing process which went undetected during examination or testing.

 

 

[Bomag]

3 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

Not necessarily. Hitachi (like any commercial contractor) will have designed their train to meet a specification, and if that specification is wrong, it's not their problem. The Mk3 and its bogies were designed by BR engineers who almost certainly knew more about what was really out there and weren't constrained by a commercial contract.

 

Jim

 

As an ex track enginner it was only after the HSTRC and the TRU (150 lookalike) in the mid 1980's did I get regular (and repeatable) data. Since then the amount of data on the condition of the track on the GWML etc has masively increased, there is no justification for not knowing what conditions the IET was going to encounter.

[jim.snowdon]

3 minutes ago, Bomag said:

 

As an ex track enginner it was only after the HSTRC and the TRU (150 lookalike) in the mid 1980's did I get regular (and repeatable) data. Since then the amount of data on the condition of the track on the GWML etc has masively increased, there is no justification for not knowing what conditions the IET was going to encounter.

There isn't, but what did the DfT (and its consultants) write into the specification?  Contractually, that is all that matters. Whether it is adeqaute or not is not Hitachi's problem.

 

What we should not do is simply go blaming Hitachi's designers for poor ride quality without knowing the parameters they were given.

 

As an aside, I had a ride from Kings CRoss to Peterborough this morning in one of LNER's HST sets, and I can't say that the ride in that was exactly silky smooth. The Mk4 set on the return jorney rode better.

 

Jim

[Ken.W]

4 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

As an aside, I had a ride from Kings CRoss to Peterborough this morning in one of LNER's HST sets, and I can't say that the ride in that was exactly silky smooth. The Mk4 set on the return jorney rode better.

 

Jim

 

Personally, I wouldn't expect anything to give a silky smooth ride on the ECML these days

[Ken.W]

The 3 sets on Tyne Yard at present are 800 106 / 9 / 12 (all 9 car)

(and at least one the wrong way round!)

At least one expected to be changed by tomorrow

Edited May 1, 2019 by Ken.W
correction

[Bob83a]

.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Bob83a
Deleted because i managed to loose the quotation.