Class 800 - Updates

[AMJ]

From all of the ones I have seen in York and Donny the FIRST class distinction on the outside is rather poor.  LNER please bring back the yellow stripe above the windows.  Much easier than the grey in white towards the top of the coach.  I can see it but there are less able people that will miss it.

[HillsideDepot]

The 1st class driving end has a yellow box around the top headlight on LNER sets. It's a silver box on the GWR ones, but wasn't part of the original spec and Hitachi are taking a very long time to fit them (maybe the chap with the ladder and box of stickers is struggling to find the 1st class end; this end, that end, coupled to another...)

[brianusa]

Mk1s, even a Mk2, where are you all!  Mr Collett? Mr Bulleid?

      Brian.

[caradoc]

3 hours ago, HillsideDepot said:

The 1st class driving end has a yellow box around the top headlight on LNER sets. It's a silver box on the GWR ones, but wasn't part of the original spec and Hitachi are taking a very long time to fit them (maybe the chap with the ladder and box of stickers is struggling to find the 1st class end; this end, that end, coupled to another...)

 

On-train ID of First Class wouldn't be quite so important if GWR could get station info screens right; 0547 Paddington-Worcester FS this morning was advertised at Oxford with First Class at the front, when it was actually at the rear. Presumably that is the booked formation, but this has been going on for so long now that it has become ridiculous. What is needed is one Sunday say, every single stabling location advises Control of the orientation of each set, this is recorded and uploaded to info systems, and updated whenever a set is turned, whether planned or not.

 

 

[JJGraphics]

19 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I did send an email to GW about the experience and it would appear several others have done similar reports,  whether this will lead to changes,  who knows.  I have a return trip booked for the bank holiday weekend for a concert at the Bertie and a visit to Railex. I suspect that the ride on a 16* will be the best bit.

 

 

 

You are having a Giraffe, of course?

 

John

[Mallard60022]

I have been out of Recovery now for a couple of days and can just about sit down for more than a minute. I have been having a think about some ideas I shall be submitting to LNER.

I think two coaches in First (The Kitchen Coach M and Coach L) should have replacement seats fitted like those bucket types in HSTs I think it was. It could be called  the Business Class section. Then there would be special posterior seating units fitted as the things go to works, for the existing and remaining First accommodation (K coach?), and that would be First and possibly extended by half a coach J? Standard Class can have special padded seats (using some sort of Velcro attachment) and that Would be called Standard Sponge Bob Class. An experimental Unit could be trialled on the York Shuttle service.

I reckon they would pay me to travel on that to test the scheme, that is of course, if I am allowed out on Remand.

Ar$£

 

[Mallard60022]

16 hours ago, AMJ said:

From all of the ones I have seen in York and Donny the FIRST class distinction on the outside is rather poor.  LNER please bring back the yellow stripe above the windows.  Much easier than the grey in white towards the top of the coach.  I can see it but there are less able people that will miss it.

I think a Large 1 on the doors might help? Perhaps with a 2 on the Standard. Customers (oh how I hate that) would get to know that 1 = First and 2 = Standard. Or would they?

P

[APOLLO]

New Class 800 second class logo on each door

 

 

 

First class logo similar, a bit less crooked, yellow hat and stick !!!!!

 

Brit15

Edited May 18, 2019 by APOLLO

[Market65]

I don’t believe it! Clearly those seats are every bit as bad as feared. No further comment is needed, the logo speaks for itself only too clearly!

 

Rob.

[Mallard60022]

Rob, try them for yourself matey, us lot might just have thin buttock covers. However, may I suggest just a short trip at first.

Phil

[RJS1977]

Strangely, now that I've done a few trips on the 800s, and got used to the seats (or they've softened up), I don't find them too bad.

 

However having gone for my final trip on an HST this afternoon (Reading-Paddington and back), my bottom felt sore not long into the return journey. I don't quite know what that says...

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, RJS1977 said:

Strangely, now that I've done a few trips on the 800s, and got used to the seats (or they've softened up), I don't find them too bad.

 

However having gone for my final trip on an HST this afternoon (Reading-Paddington and back), my bottom felt sore not long into the return journey. I don't quite know what that says...

I've got used to the Class 80X seats and don't find them too bad although they can be a bit bum-numbing on longer trips.  Maybe I don't find them too bad because before I get on one I have travelled on a 387?   But I do find, when correctly set, that the angle of the seat back can be very comfortable indeed for me and definitely better that GWR's latest efforts in HST seats.

[multivac]

As for the seats maybe LNER and GWR should hand out inflatable cushions to sit on? Marked with the logo of course. The Japanese Shinkansen have automatic rotatable seats so you always point in the direction of travel. Rotating Shinkansen seats

Seats revolving!

 

Hopefully the operators will get fed-up with complaints about the seats and do something about them.

Edited May 18, 2019 by multivac

[JJGraphics]

19 minutes ago, multivac said:

Hopefully the operators will get fed-up with complaints about the seats and do something about them.

 

If only . . .

 

John

[exet1095]

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I've got used to the Class 80X seats and don't find them too bad although they can be a bit bum-numbing on longer trips.  Maybe I don't find them too bad because before I get on one I have travelled on a 387?   But I do find, when correctly set, that the angle of the seat back can be very comfortable indeed for me and definitely better that GWR's latest efforts in HST seats.

But you travel (for free) in first class. Try standard before telling the rest of us that the seats are ok. 

[Mallard60022]

12 hours ago, exet1095 said:

But you travel (for free) in first class. Try standard before telling the rest of us that the seats are ok. 

That's a bit strong mate. I traveled first and commented because it took only half an hour each way and didn't cost me much. I wouldn't comment on the second seats as I have not experienced them yet and that is the same as Stationmaster, just commenting on First.

Phil

[caradoc]

12 hours ago, exet1095 said:

But you travel (for free) in first class. Try standard before telling the rest of us that the seats are ok. 

 

Stationmaster was only saying that he personally finds the Class 800 seats OK; As in fact do I, in both Standard and First Class. I also don't mind the Class 385 Standard Class seating, but I do agree that Class 700 could be a lot better. Just my own opinion, others may or may not agree.

 

[Zomboid]

The standard class seats are very hard. But that's about the only criticism I would have of them. They're well shaped and installed with plenty of leg room. Aside from the lack of padding the seating environment is a great step forward from what they're replacing on GWR. I don't use the ECML enough to make a comparison there...

 

Obviously the seats don't align with the windows, but this is 2019, we can't go around expecting things like that can we?

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, exet1095 said:

But you travel (for free) in first class. Try standard before telling the rest of us that the seats are ok. 

How do you know that I haven't tried Standard?  (As it happens I have but not on such a long trip)

 

PS. I was still using a free pass, I hope you don't mind? 

[Oldddudders]

22 hours ago, exet1095 said:

But you travel (for free) in first class. 

And? Are you seriously questioning Mike’s right to first class free travel? He worked in the railway industry in the BR era, clearly made himself useful, climbed quite a few rungs up the ladder, otherwise he wouldn’t have that facility - as do I. Many careers carry perks. People in the Financial Services Sector may have access to cheaper loans, while those in academia famously get a few more days holiday than most. Ford employees could obtain cars through the firm. Railway salaries were famously modest, but the travel facilities compensated.

 

If you want to make remarks about ex-BR employees and their entitlements, do not expect an easy ride. 

[phil-b259]

12 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

And? Are you seriously questioning Mike’s right to first class free travel? He worked in the railway industry in the BR era, clearly made himself useful, climbed quite a few rungs up the ladder, otherwise he wouldn’t have that facility - as do I. Many careers carry perks. People in the Financial Services Sector may have access to cheaper loans, while those in academia famously get a few more days holiday than most. Ford employees could obtain cars through the firm. Railway salaries were famously modest, but the travel facilities compensated.

 

If you want to make remarks about ex-BR employees and their entitlements, do not expect an easy ride. 

 

Given there are hundreds of folk who joined the railway industry since 1996 who lack ANY form of travel perk (contrary to what most of the UK population seem to think) - even though trains carn't run without them keeping the infrastructure going,  a less gun-ho sentiment would be appreciated.

 

Thats not to say what you, Mike and others have got isn't deserved of course....

 

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by phil-b259

[phil-b259]

8 minutes ago, exet1095 said:

 

Finally, my response to you is that just because you worked for BR, a famously unpopular organisation, filled with the worst practices of state monopolies, and dominated by unions protecting the interests of their members,

 

BR did a dam sight better than the current idiots in charge - and don't be fooled by all the rubbish spouted by Politicians, the REAL people calling the shots throughout the industry is the DfT!

 

One of BRs biggest strengths was standing up to the DfT & the Treasuary - as a result instead of further line closures we got Pacers to keep them open, we got a reasonable quantity of suburban electrification schemes despite the Government being anti-railway, and instead of the extremely expensive IET (by FAR the most expensive train to lease in the UK if not Europe thanks to DfT bungling) we got the HST.

 

As for industrial disputes - even BR didn't deliberately engineer disputes with the express intention of, and I quote "we are going to break them and kick them out of my industry'" as the top DfT official (a certain Peter Wilkinson*) said to is Conservative chums in Croydon before launching a series of DOO disputes across the country that caused huge misery for huge numbers of commuters for years!

 

Yes BR had its faults - but so does the private sector, Railtrack failed spectacularly in its intended job of looking after the infrastructure while on the other hand Chiltern Railways haven't really put a foot wrong so far.

 

*https://insidecroydon.com/2016/06/15/southern-failways-civil-servant-wants-to-break-rail-unions/

Edited May 19, 2019 by phil-b259

[HillsideDepot]

On 18/05/2019 at 17:42, multivac said:

Hopefully the operators will get fed-up with complaints about the seats and do something about them.

 

11 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Obviously the seats don't align with the windows, but this is 2019, we can't go around expecting things like that can we?

 

A couple of observations from yesterday as I used IETs to get between the various "last day" GWR HSTs. I heard several people comment that they liked the "new" trains, including some saying that they were comfortable. 

 

On one trip the seats a couple of rows ahead were 80% window pillar, and on the opposite side where I could easily see them reserved, with 100% window and unreserved seats in the row immediately ahead, and an free table with window a few rows further on again. The booked passengers arrived, sat down without any issue with the window pillar. The two passengers sitting directly opposite me (full window) made no use of it, one watching a film on is tablet, the other reading a "book" on his phone. 

 

The only negatives I heard yesterday about the IETs was the lack of a buffet, that coming back several times between travelling companions when one complimented the IET. It has to be said that the HST buffets were doing a roaring trade yesterday; sales of souvenirs for charity far out stripping sales of food and drink!! 

 

The conclusion I draw is less that the IET is perfect, but more that we are not the typical passenger!

[Bomag]

3 hours ago, exet1095 said:

Two things.

 

1. I was not, but think I will now as this untaxed benefit is probably one of the reasons that senior rail staff seem to have so little sympathy with the difficulties faced by people who pay for their tickets. I think, on balance, that it is not a justified perk of the job, and I would contend that it is not true that salaries at BR were significantly lower than equivalent jobs elsewhere. 

 

2. My point was that someone who habitually sits in First will not understand how uncomfortable seats are in Standard.

 

Finally, my response to you is that just because you worked for BR, a famously unpopular organisation, filled with the worst practices of state monopolies, and dominated by unions protecting the interests of their members, it does not make you special. Perhaps if you (collectively) had to pay for your own travel, then you would not have let things slip so badly.

 

This is a model railway forum. The people I respect are those who show enthusiasm and support for railways, for other modellers, and for each other. Not those who think they are special because they were career railwaymen or women.

 

It is interesting that part of a reward package that 'other' people don't agree with is called a 'perk'. Like pension contributions and leave it's part of the package. As with leave, the old PT pass was a cheap method of making the package more attractive.  While not all BR pay was poor, for the vast majority with a skill it definitely was - I had a 50% pay increase when I went to DfT in 1993 (to the pay band minimum).  Your statement about BR shows the classic amnesia of thinking of BR of the 1970's. By 1990 BR was nothing like that.

 

Please note that this is in Prototype Discussions; those that do, or did work, on the railways may have something relevant to say - even if bits in capitols can often be cobblers (aka the No-use line).

 

I can confirm that both first and steerage in the GW IETs are worse than anything currently in a MK3 or MK4 and that includes the ex GW and CC sets.

[Coryton]

6 hours ago, Bomag said:

I can confirm that both first and steerage in the GW IETs are worse than anything currently in a MK3 or MK4 and that includes the ex GW and CC sets.

 

I can confirm that in my opinion the standard class environment in a GWR IET is far superior to the GWR Mk 3's in their current form.

 

Very generous legroom, a decent number of tables mostly with seats lining up with windows (vs generally two tables per coach with ludicrously tight legroom and poor window alignment), and a generally airy feel (helped by the seats which by today's standards are very low backed). Some luggage space between pairs of seats facing opposite ways like in the old days. And windows that aren't so heavily tinted they make a sunny day look overcast.

 

Yes I'd like the seats to be less hard but I think they really are softening up. And the power sockets are a bit awkward to get to. But - and I never thought this would happen - after the most recent reburbishment I found myself avoiding HSTs, but I am quite happy to travel on the IETs.

 

If they had a buffet car, or the trolley could be relied upon to come by at frequent intervals, they would be even better.