Loco Hauled services to return to Cumbrian Coast

[Covkid]

Local MP's now saying new loco's (T&T 68's?) to be in service on the Cumbrian coast by Mid January. Drat! If true of course. Kev.

 

 

Yes. I have heard that rumour too and find it strange.

AIUI the class 37s and DBSOs are driven by NT staff, so presumably NT drivers get trained on class 68 instead, whilst 37/4s get binned a little prematurely. Alternatively the 37/4s could swap the Northern passenger work for flasks. 

[37403]

Does the loco hauled sets work over the festive period, this week and next?

If so, would anyone be able to advise what locos are working this week?

Many thanks.

[roundhouse]

A change of plans on our trip south from Glasgow today Cumbrian coast services disrupted resulted in getting these shots at Carlisle.

There is also a good bar on platform 4 with five ales and one cider that we just happened to stumble across and is the only reason that we saw the double headed train pull into the station from the window.

Edited December 27, 2017 by roundhouse

[woodenhead]

Yes. I have heard that rumour too and find it strange.

AIUI the class 37s and DBSOs are driven by NT staff, so presumably NT drivers get trained on class 68 instead, whilst 37/4s get binned a little prematurely. Alternatively the 37/4s could swap the Northern passenger work for flasks. 

Seems a bit overkill for the service - two big locos replacing one smaller one with a DVT.

[ColinK]

Wonder why the Anglia 37 hauled services were fine, yet in Cumbria they are not? Anything to do with the crews liking or disliking working them?

[Dunsignalling]

When I was up there in the summer, there were two 37s working some days and three on others. I was told they are hired in as required, only because Northern haven't got and can't get enough DMUs to run the service. I stayed in one of the Ravenglass Pullman cars and, some mornings, a 37 acted as my alarm clock, on others the service had a unit and I slumbered on..

 

Like woodenhead, I don't see the logic of tying up two expensive, powerful new locos on a four coach train rather than an old 37 with a book value that must be approaching zero.

 

John

Edited December 27, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[newbryford]

 

Like woodenhead, I don't see the logic of tying up two expensive, powerful new locos on a four coach train rather than an old 37 with a book value that must be approaching zero.

 

John

 

Partly because the 37s keep breaking.....

 

And it's only (supposed to be) a short term measure until Northern receive their new DMUS and have some spare units.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Cheers,

Mick

[11B]

There seems to be a recurrent theme on some of the local Facebook groups regarding the Cumbrian Railways.

 

One of the big things people are saying is they seem to think that the issue is the Northern drives. When the service was driven by DRS drivers there seems to have been fewer cancelations, granted there where some delays, but the thought/word on Facebook seems to suggest that DRS drivers where able to identify minor faults, sort them and get the service running again. Whereas some of the people posting give the impression that the Northern drivers are not permitted or do not have the skill or knowledge to do this. Intern, when a fault appears they require their drivers to fail the train. NB some of the people that post these comments on Facebook tell us that they are either DRS or Northern train crew, and looking at some of the phots they post members of the public should not be able to access the places they have been.

 

The other main point that causes issues up here is services getting cancelled because of a lack of train crew. Again, you would like to believe that Northern know which staff can crew these trains i.e correct route and traction knowledge, and train some more is required.

 

Just shearing a this with you all. These are not my own personal thoughts, but from members of a closed Facebook group.

 

Ian

[Mad McCann]

Aye. This is pretty much what I heard too.

Interesting development if 68s are going to take over the gig.

DRS must have spare crews and locos.

Agree it's a bit of overkill compared to the current set up. I guess there's a compatibility issue with the 68/DBSO combo.

 

D4

[roundhouse]

This morning at Lancaster, the same 37 seen at Carlisle yesterday was heading to Preston

[kevpeo]

37 424 and 37 403 are the current pair on duty.

[D854_Tiger]

I've said this before the obvious place for those 37s was the S&C and the units so saved on that route could have been put to work on the CC.

[11B]

I've said this before the obvious place for those 37s was the S&C and the units so saved on that route could have been put to work on the CC.

Or the Barrow to Lancaster/Preston leg!

[cal.n]

If the 68s aren’t compatible with DBSOs, what happens to the (fairly newly overhauled) DRS’ DBSOs? Using them on the greater Anglia services would make sense, but that means more redundant 37s.

 

I am looking to do the Cumbrian Coast some point next week (been on the bucket list for a while) is it all still tractors at the moment?

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

If the 68s aren’t compatible with DBSOs, what happens to the (fairly newly overhauled) DRS’ DBSOs? Using them on the greater Anglia services would make sense, but that means more redundant 37s.

 

I am looking to do the Cumbrian Coast some point next week (been on the bucket list for a while) is it all still tractors at the moment?

 

I think at the moment 403 and 424 are on the trains. 

 

401 and 402 are both Out Of Service at Kingmoor and 425 has been borrowed for the Anglian trains as 419, 423 and 716 are on repair at Gresty Bridge and Kingmoor respectively. Leaving 405, 422 and 425 on the Anglian trains. 

 

Hope this helps. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by DRS Crewe On A Mission

[cal.n]

Interesting

 

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/talks-continue-on-cumbrian-coast-line-traction?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[ColinK]

37558 on the early Carlisle - Preston working today. Looking and sounding good as it passed me. Going a bit faster than usual too.

[Dunsignalling]

If the 68s aren’t compatible with DBSOs, what happens to the (fairly newly overhauled) DRS’ DBSOs? Using them on the greater Anglia services would make sense, but that means more redundant 37s.

 

I am looking to do the Cumbrian Coast some point next week (been on the bucket list for a while) is it all still tractors at the moment?

It's never been "all tractors" they just work roughly one service in five because Northern don't have enough DMUs. 

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

I've said this before the obvious place for those 37s was the S&C and the units so saved on that route could have been put to work on the CC.

But that would just transfer the operational inconvenience arising from using a mix of locos and units from one line to another.

 

With no more than three 37s active on any given day, there aren't enough to work a complete service anywhere.

 

John

Edited January 2, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Reorte]

But that would just transfer the operational inconvenience arising from using a mix of locos and units from one line to another.

 

With no more than three 37s active on any given day, there aren't enough to work a complete service anywhere.

Longer times between stops sounds better suited for a loco-hauled service though, it's a question as to where the mix is less inconvenient (and I assume someone's worked that out and decided it was the coast line after all).

[Dunsignalling]

Longer times between stops sounds better suited for a loco-hauled service though, it's a question as to where the mix is less inconvenient (and I assume someone's worked that out and decided it was the coast line after all).

I suspect the deciding factors are the proximity of maintenance facilities and location/availability of traincrew.

 

Four coaches aren't enough to make a 37 break sweat even with relatively frequent stops.

 

John

[ColinK]

Taking the 0515 Carlisle - Preston as and example.

 

On the Carlisle to Barrow section there are 25 stations. This gives a station every 6.7 minutes on average (without allowing for the time stopped at stations) and the runnng times are not generous. So its full power every 6 minutes, then brake for the next station. Hence the constant stress on the locos, can’t do them any good.

 

Does anyone remember when the HSTs were first introduced on the GW and they suffered major problems from the full power then brake cycles? The Cumbrian 37 have a far more challenging time. Putting them on the S&C would be better as there are fewer station and longer distances between them.

 

A have used the Cumbrian coast loco hauled services many times. Riding in coaches with comfy seats, tables and no engines rattling underneath means a far more attractive travelling environment than a dmu.

[stovepipe]

There's 18 stops on the S&C, compared to 24 on Carlisle - Barrow, half of which are by request. 2h 40m against 2h 50m  - I don't see it makes much difference really.

[ColinK]

The limited stop S&C services eg 0947 Leeds - Carlisle has 8 stops in 150 miutes is one stop every 18.75 minutes. That would be far more suitable for the loco hauled services. Unlike dmus, the loco hauled sets don’t have power operated doors, so fewer stops means less delays caused by passengers leaving the doors open.

[woodenhead]

37558 on the early Carlisle - Preston working today. Looking and sounding good as it passed me. Going a bit faster than usual too.

Brrrrr - no ETH