well filled baps The Sheep Chronicles : These are the adventures of a Sheep, the Works Forecat and Naughty George,

[Dunsignalling]

8 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I have no idea of the answer to that question, Rich, but it would be interesting to hear from anyone that does.  There seems to have been a view that the new BR standard designs, locos, coaches, and wagons, were predominantly based on LMS practice, but the extent to which that holds up in practice is moot IMHO.  All the Big 4 designs continued to be ordered and built after nationalisation for several years, and the reason may be no more than that materials were available to build LNER vans at the time!

The early years of BR were times of perennial shortages and, from their appearance, I'd estimate the LNER-pattern vans probably used less steel and timber than the alternatives, with the weight being made up using concrete.  

 

Your earlier comment about the large LMS van taking a long time to warm through echoes comment I've heard from others. I also remember a guard of my acquaintance mentioning that the riding of the little SR vans could be pretty horrible but they could be got cosy very quickly on a cold day....

 

John

[NHY 581]

[Adrian Stevenson]

That is a real transformation. Nice work.

 

Cheers, Ade.

[sb67]

Nice work Rob, the underframe looks particularly good. 

[Alister_G]

You know, you're really rather good at that...

 

 

Al.

[The Johnster]

4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Your earlier comment about the large LMS van taking a long time to warm through echoes comment I've heard from others. I also remember a guard of my acquaintance mentioning that the riding of the little SR vans could be pretty horrible but they could be got cosy very quickly on a cold day....

 

Only once did I ever have the misfortune to ride in a pillbox, originally an SECR design I believe, again to Hereford.  The thing rode like a 3 legged dog with all it's legs of different lengths, the shaking kept putting the lamps out, the cabin had 'worked' with the motion meaning that it was the draughtiest vehicle I ever encountered, and the stove, even glowing orange hot, could not heat even that small cabin once the train was moving, even at low speeds.  Standard practice was to seal draughts with yesterday's newspaper, but on this van they kept shaking loose.  It was, frankly, dangerous.

 

I advised my relief at Hereford, an old timer, to fail it, but he gave me the all too familiar 'kids terday, Canton back cab jockeys, don't know what railway work is, etc. etc.' look.  I ran into him again a few weeks later and he admitted I'd been right and that he'd asked for, but not got, a replacement van at Salop.  

 

Horrible little thing, not suitable IMHO for work at main line speeds; the rocking was pretty violent before we'd left Long Dyke yard.  Significantly, the ballast was carried outboard of the axles, like the LNER/BR standard vans.  Another similarity which made little sense on a brake van was cabin doors that opened inwards, making the draughts worse.  But you couldn't get a discussion about the relative merits of vans going in those days without it becoming immediately mired in nostalgia for GW toads, which were well built, draughtproof, and rode properly.  They were rubbish in every other respect (thought this was an impossible opinion to express without being shouted down by the rest of the room), having no duckets so you had to go out on the balcony which was leading half the time to observe your train, and to use the brake.  If you've ever had a job that involves being outside on a freezing night in a wind of at least 40mph you will understand that I'm not being a prima donna with this comment!  The long wheelbase types also had large cabins, but warmed up easily being better built and hence more draughtproof than others.

 

The best beyond doubt were the Southern's Queen Marys, a combination of all the best practices on bogies that rode like Pullmans.  Which is of course why the Southern chased them up assiduously if any escaped into the 'pool' and we very seldom got a chance to have a go in one.  The only one I ever rode in was when I was route learning through the Severn Tunnel.

 

The latter years of brake van working were blighted by several factors; the 1955 plan had determined that we were to have fully fitted trains 'soon' (which turned out to be another 30 years) so no investment was wasted on them, and the 1969 single manning agreement meant that guards now booked on a loco depots rather than goods yards, so the general condition of vehicles than nobody cared about deteriorated considerably.  Mike Stationmaster has commented about the 70s, when he was in charge at Radyr, that any cost over 50p to repair a van meant it's scrapping.  BR could and arguable should have been able to do better IMHO; a bogie van using the underframes of withdrawn bogie goods stock, of which there was a surplus in the 50s and early 60s, or even withdrawn passenger stock, could have resulted in a decent riding van that was easier to keep in decent condition and draught resistant, and could have been ballasted to 30, or even 60 tons, a serious brake force.  But the will wasn't there, and the guards were largely of a generation that was happy with what it had, so it never happened.  Some non gangwayed passenger stock was converted to van use for use with Freightliner and Cartic traffic pre-1969.

Edited December 29, 2019 by The Johnster

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Only once did I ever have the misfortune to ride in a pillbox, originally an SECR design I believe, again to Hereford.  The thing rode like a 3 legged dog with all it's legs of different lengths, the shaking kept putting the lamps out, the cabin had 'worked' with the motion meaning that it was the draughtiest vehicle I ever encountered, and the stove, even glowing orange hot, could not heat even that small cabin once the train was moving, even at low speeds.  Standard practice was to seal draughts with yesterday's newspaper, but on this van they kept shaking loose.  It was, frankly, dangerous.

 

I advised my relief at Hereford, an old timer, to fail it, but he gave me the all too familiar 'kids terday, Canton back cab jockeys, don't know what railway work is, etc. etc.' look.  I ran into him again a few weeks later and he admitted I'd been right and that he'd asked for, but not got, a replacement van at Salop.  

 

Horrible little thing, not suitable IMHO for work at main line speeds; the rocking was pretty violent before we'd left Long Dyke yard.  Significantly, the ballast was carried outboard of the axles, like the LNER/BR standard vans.  Another similarity which made little sense on a brake van was cabin doors that opened inwards, making the draughts worse.  But you couldn't get a discussion about the relative merits of vans going in those days without it becoming immediately mired in nostalgia for GW toads, which were well built, draughtproof, and rode properly.  They were rubbish in every other respect (thought this was an impossible opinion to express without being shouted down by the rest of the room), having no duckets so you had to go out on the balcony which was leading half the time to observe your train, and to use the brake.  If you've ever had a job that involves being outside on a freezing night in a wind of at least 40mph you will understand that I'm not being a prima donna with this comment!  The long wheelbase types also had large cabins, but warmed up easily being better built and hence more draughtproof than others.

 

The best beyond doubt were the Southern's Queen Marys, a combination of all the best practices on bogies that rode like Pullmans.  Which is of course why the Southern chased them up assiduously if any escaped into the 'pool' and we very seldom got a chance to have a go in one.  The only one I ever rode in was when I was route learning through the Severn Tunnel.

 

The latter years of brake van working were blighted by several factors; the 1955 plan had determined that we were to have fully fitted trains 'soon' (which turned out to be another 30 years) so no investment was wasted on them, and the 1969 single manning agreement meant that guards now booked on a loco depots rather than goods yards, so the general condition of vehicles than nobody cared about deteriorated considerably.  Mike Stationmaster has commented about the 70s, when he was in charge at Radyr, that any cost over 50p to repair a van meant it's scrapping.  BR could and arguable should have been able to do better IMHO; a bogie van using the underframes of withdrawn bogie goods stock, of which there was a surplus in the 50s and early 60s, or even withdrawn passenger stock, could have resulted in a decent riding van that was easier to keep in decent condition and draught resistant, and could have been ballasted to 30, or even 60 tons, a serious brake force.  But the will wasn't there, and the guards were largely of a generation that was happy with what it had, so it never happened.  Some non gangwayed passenger stock was converted to van use for use with Freightliner and Cartic traffic pre-1969.

Having seen one "down to its underpants" under restoration, I can state that the area under the cabin floor on a pillbox was filled with scrap iron, much of it  worn-out rail cut to fit. Those deep solebars meant there was room for lots of it, hence their being five tons heavier than most larger vans.

 

John  

[NHY 581]

Whilst I continue to tinker with Bleat, a reminder of Mutton's next appearance. 

 

 

Rob. 

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

Whilst I continue to tinker with Bleat, a reminder of Mutton's next appearance. 

 

 

Rob. 

Let's hope that the show guide is indeed available in January rather than February...

[NHY 581]

A further image. More tinkering is required to better blend/tone down the rust on the underframe. 

 

Coming on though. 

 

Rob. 

[Liam]

15 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

A further image. More tinkering is required to better blend/tone down the rust on the underframe. 

 

Coming on though. 

 

Rob. 

 

Very tasty Rob. I've got three Toads (Bachmann, Hornby Railroad and I believe scratch-built) and three BR 20T  standards (Bachmann, Hornby Railroad and the third being part of a Hornby train set) but those LMS ones do tempt me. If I do get one, I'll try a few of the weathering techniques you've mentioned in the past, like the use of Humbrol weathering powders.

[NHY 581]

38 minutes ago, SVRlad said:

 

Very tasty Rob. I've got three Toads (Bachmann, Hornby Railroad and I believe scratch-built) and three BR 20T  standards (Bachmann, Hornby Railroad and the third being part of a Hornby train set) but those LMS ones do tempt me. If I do get one, I'll try a few of the weathering techniques you've mentioned in the past, like the use of Humbrol weathering powders.

 

 

They are pretty good. There are areas you could improve on. The lamp irons for example are moulded. 

 

Here's the final view of the brake van. 

 

All smoke and powders!......

 

 

Rob 

[gwrrob]

Splendid old chap.

 

[NHY 581]

Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to or simply popped in to the Sheep Chronicles thus far. In addition many of you fine types have taken the trouble to come along to the various exhibitions along the way. 

 

A fine 2019. 

 

Thank you all. 

 

The kindest of regards and the best of wishes to all for 2020. 

 

Rob 

[Alister_G]

Happy New Year to you Rob, look forward to many more exquisite photos of your layouts.

 

Al.

[NHY 581]

Start 2020 as I left 2019. 

 

Here's the finished article. 

 

Rob 

[chuffinghell]

Superb!

 

Happy New Year Rob

[NHY 581]

Morning all. 

 

Welcome to 2020. 

 

There is a need to get a wiggle on with Bleat ahead of Saturday. 

 

First job is to add card to the fascia and smarten matters up somewhat.  

 

The game is afoot..........ahem!..........ahoof. 

 

 

Rob 

[Captain Kernow]

Happy New Year, old bean!

 

[NHY 581]

29 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Happy New Year, old bean!

 

 

Mange tout. CK. 

 

J'aurai la bouilloire plus tard dans le mois. Au plaisir de vous rattraper.

 

Creme de Menthe. 

 

Rob 

 

[bgman]

Happy Lamb Frappe to you too !

 

G

[Mikkel]

Happy bleatings for the new year Rob. 

 

On 29/12/2019 at 17:49, NHY 581 said:

Whilst I continue to tinker with Bleat, a reminder of Mutton's next appearance. 

 

 

Rob. 

 

Do you or anyone else happen to know what layout that superb little loco appears on? I visited the website but couldn't see.

[Captain Kernow]

42 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Do you or anyone else happen to know what layout that superb little loco appears on? I visited the website but couldn't see.

I'd have said it was from Robin Gay's 'Wantage' layout in P4, but that isn't booked to attend.

 

[Mikkel]

Thanks Tim, I think you are right, judging by these Flickr photos.  Maybe the photo in the poster is from an earlier event.

 

Edit: No, I was mistaken, different scale.

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by Mikkel

[The Johnster]

The prototype is 'Shannon', a George England used on the Wantage Tramway and preserved for many years after it's demise on the platform at Wantage Road.  It was later taken on by the GWS at Didcot, where it remains.  It is indeed a superb little loco, Victorian railway porn, proportionally lovely!