Hornby Merchant Navy announced (formerly Facebook leak)

[Dunsignalling]

I disagree. People will want to run Rebuilt and Original MNs side by side (although that would need a wedge cab version). Canadian Pacific along with P&O and Royal Mail would be good late-rebuild Series One candidates. The other late rebuild was Channel Packet but that loco will almost certainly be chosen as the as-built loco model, so it is probably covered anyway. 

 

Personally I avoided all the late Rebuild MNs in the Hornby catalogue for just this reason.

The problem with 21C1 "as built" (see Hornby CAD) is that she didn't look that way (or any other way) for too long until the MN specification settled down a bit in the early 1950s.

 

She received the standard smoke hood at the end of 1943 and standard deflectors in the summer of 1947. (Photo on Hornby website shows this condition)

 

In late 1950, she lost the fairings ahead of the cylinders and gained a notched-front cab, along with BR blue livery.

 

Much the same happened to 21C2, albeit on a slightly different timescale and she kept the original cab until 1953.

 

For that reason, I think it likely that the first release will be accompanied (or followed in fairly short order) by something more typical. 

 

John

Edited February 28, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[7013]

Just got home and opened an email from Hornby confirming it is an air smoothed MN. Great news, and possibly as stated designed to steal a little of Bachmanns glory next week. However I don't believe it matters when it is announced, the fact that they are going to build one is great. I see some people are speculating that Bachmann may announce one next week, I hope not, there are still many locos to be built without duplication.

[dibber25]

'Sleaziness' ?  Perhaps a little strong there ? Surely this is just business. Given the opportunity, all will grasp the opportunity to be first to the post. There are no great moral ethics being trashed here.

 

Tony

Absolutely right! It's called 'doing a spoiler' and it's routine in competitive business. In the run-up to Bachmann's big announcements next week, it's got everyone talking about............Hornby. That's the way of things and I have no doubt that the guys at Barwell will bat the ball right back, next week. Not sleazy - just another facet of a many facetted model industry. Bachmann effectively announced it two years or more ago when they said that they would hope to produce their new models in both OO and N and if Hornby are announcing it for 2016, they'll have been working on it for at least two years. Let's hope the two (if, indeed there are two) will be sufficiently different that modellers have real choice. 

CHRIS LEIGH

[melmerby]

If you worried about the way Hornby act then it really bothers me that Hornby started facing supply issues with Kader/Sanda Kan after Bachmann bought Kader/Sanda Kan. 

Skewing history a bit aren't we?

 

Bachmann haven't bought anything as they are a subsidiary of Kader, (since 1984).

Sanda Kan went bust had debt problems and needed someone to buy them. Kader was the obvious choice.

Without the rescue Hornby would have had little or no production whilst they arranged alternative suppliers.

It would IMHO be a whole lot worse for Hornby if Sanda Kan stopped trading.

 

Keith

[KalKat]

Probably off topic - will this mean some new Bulleid (sp?) coaches in due course?

[tomparryharry]

I do hope Hornby do an all-out, dogs danglies job on this.

 

I also hope they don't start corner cutting at the 95% stage of the process.

 

Not my era, or region, but I reckon Hornby have the 'feel' on this one. The modified MN was a milestone for Hornby, and justly so. Any Southern loco will have to live in the shoes of the modified MN, or, live in it's shadow.

 

Ian

[Dan Griffin]

Why are they announcing 2016 stuff so early on. ??

[stewartingram]

Oh dear.

More SR, not GE or M&GN.....

 

Stewart

[Graham_Muz]

Probably off topic - will this mean some new Bulleid (sp?) coaches in due course?

I agree that Bachmann's 00 Bulleid coaches are due for updating and the fact they have released versions in N may mean that the research can be used to up the 00 versions. However like the original 00 versions the newer N gauge versions have been based on the BR built coaches and not the SR built style.

 

21C1 in the condition that Hornby are likely to release first ie as first built in 1941 would not have run with Bulleid coaches as they did not exist at that time so would have hauled rakes of Maunsell coaches. She received modifications to the front end styling In 1943 aporox a year before the fist Bulleid 59ft coaches were produced.

[autocoach]

With apologies to those who follow the other 4 British Railways of the 1940's (BR, LNER, GWR, LMS) I am truly delighted. But can we now have the original West Country Exeter (to mention a rather hot button) without the wedgie cab....

 

Assuming the 1943 MN mods, Now all we need is original Bullied coaches in Malachite and  the original 4 SUB to replicate the Penge East I dimly remember from my childhood in 1947.

Edited February 28, 2015 by autocoach

[Multiple identity account]

It would IMHO be a whole lot worse for Hornby if Sanda Kan stopped trading.

 

Keith

Thanks for the correction

 

But if Sanda Kan went bust Hornby would have suffered less/same as they still would have searched for alternate factories as they already did recently.... And if that happened earlier, they would have found newer factories earlier too right?

[Nile]

Why are they announcing 2016 stuff so early on. ??

 

Indeed, at this rate will there be anything 'new' left to announce at the end of the year?

[The Black Hat]

I think that's a bit rich when, of the current release programme involves three LNER classes (K1, J15, D16) and one Southern (700) 

 

OK, Hornby are, after several years since the last new SR loco, returning to their roots with the forthcoming S15 and now the air-smoothed MN but that is largely balanced out by the long standing antipathy of their main competitor who had, until recently, not produced a new SR loco since the N class the better part of two decades ago.

 

John     

 

Errr No. Thats now a class 71, Merchant Navy and Adams radial, with the first two now taking the main places in the 2015 announcement due in December! Who said it had to be a steam engine. The main period of transition era is dominated by Southern region models. Slam door EMU stock is all done for the Southern region. Thats as good as any steam engine release that ran on the same metals. At least 1st Gen DMUs diesls and (most) BR standards transfered between regions, but 3rd rail EMUS are designed to be sold for those modelling the Southern region proper and are as good as any specific Southern region engine. For anyone to say that any small area of Tyneside or Mersyside was factored in too is really stretching credibility.

 

When you look at the amount of engines both steam, ED, 3rd rail EMU, and diesel comissioned for the southern region it far outstrips everywhere else. Add too the amount of shop commissions for engines of that region too and the difference is easily noticed. 

 

Everyone knows that the area is popular but manufacturers are crowding the area at the expense of other regions, with prototypes that would sell just as well given the main locomotive types are made. Hence the 2nd tier of choices and novelty engines are what people are going for but again with others made, everyone is rushing to make them as they move down the list. The manufacturers are making the same observations and chosing the same engines to make, which is causing the duplication.

 

It leaves other areas without choice with prototypes that would match the volume of sales. Even if those choices are of limited geographical coverage or livery choice. As a result, the final slots that would have been the place of engines offered to a broad range previously that caters for everyone on rotation are reduced and thus areas are left to be done later to give companies the chance to sell the engines to finish those that Southern modellers want. This in turn causes irritation and envy amongst others when they see more obsure engines being selected for down south when a popular and common engine up north is ignored. It does make me think that saturation of the southern engines is causing the duplication issues.

 

Of course all that could be undone, if Bachmann announces a Q6 on monday! 

Edited February 28, 2015 by The Black Hat

[PaulRhB]

To us the spoils, as long as they don't both model the same engine, and hopefully they will actually be different variants then there's a chance some stock might be on the shelves long enough for those who want to wait and see to get what they want We bemoan Bachmann or Hornby are better at this or that and yet duplication going head to head actually raises the stakes to make them do their best. Design clever wouldn't be much competition for Bachmann and the Hornby one may well produce a Railroad version too for those on a tight budget?

Tornado seems to have worked for both companies so with some clever marketing and sets these could too especially with the cruise connections of a Cunard boat train.

The timing is typical of business and I guess we got used to the more gentlemanly approach of SK and this is nothing compared to tablet marketing Maybe a sign of a more aggressive approach to the market but also think of the thread on "how to promote our hobby". We wanted more marketing and if they apply this to public sales too, which they'd be fools not to, then surely that's part of what we wanted? Avoiding duplication is one thing but ultimately with the shrinking market and price rises they have to think about long term viability and I'm afraid this is part of it, you need to beat the others or they will beat you. So I'm sorry but a friendly chat of who's going to do what is increasingly unlikely especially when you have shareholders who want to maximise profit and aren't the least bothered what product does it. The more whimsical choices can be superbly catered for by the likes of DJ and Rapido who can allow a little more passion into the mix and indeed that is part of what will keep their customers loyal while the same decry the big boys.

If they're both good then I will have one of each to hopefully contribute to both covering their costs even if it's not a cash cow.

[Guest]

Of course all that could be undone, if Bachmann announces a Q6 on monday! 

 

 

That would cause duplication with DJM, who are in the process of making one.

[Roy P]

I do hope Hornby do an all-out, dogs danglies job on this.

 

I also hope they don't start corner cutting at the 95% stage of the process.

 

Not my era, or region, but I reckon Hornby have the 'feel' on this one. The modified MN was a milestone for Hornby, and justly so. Any Southern loco will have to live in the shoes of the modified MN, or, live in it's shadow.

 

Ian

Setting aside how many people have an MN on their shopping list, I think we can all take encouragement from the chassis design drawing which, together with views under the bonnet of the recent J15, shows a stride in the right direction just as the Rebuilt MN did in it's day.

I hope that by the time this arrives next year, Hornby can also get back to their high standard of lining/printing which did appear to slip a little while the new suppliers were getting up to speed. 

 

RP

[Ryde-on-time]

Why are they announcing 2016 stuff so early on. ??

I was wondering the opposite. If they are aiming to produce them so soon I wonder why they left it so long to announce. The norm from other manufacurers seems to be to announce before even the basic research is complete and it is 3 or so years before the models are available to purchase

 

I look forward to seeing what they are doing. I would only really be interested if it were a fully detailed model and one with a cheap sound chip might be tempting?

[Oldddudders]

The Merchant Navy was classed as a mixed traffic loco as it was the only way Bulleid could persuade the wartime authorities to allow him to build it.

But the MN's axle loadings kept it very much to main line use, whatever might be hung on the tender. And getting your proposal past the financial authorities invariably requires some weasel words and a degree of economy with the truth. Been there, done that - not with locomotives, but resignalling schemes, station reconstructions, etc. etc.

[The Black Hat]

That would cause duplication with DJM, who are in the process of making one.

 

 

Yes it would. But Ive been saying for years that the Q6 would be perfect for Bachmann expanding their range northwards only for it not to happen, and DJM to take up the challange. If they did go for it on Monday, it would be irronic in the fact that it eventually does happen, but would put a rather large dent in what ive just written above.

 

If Bachmann do move into North East territory, the obvious one now is BR Standard 2MT, while the pregrouping one could be any of B16, J27, J21 of G5.

 

I guessed at the start of the Bachmann predicting thread that the Southern model would be the Lord Nelson. Looks like Ive got it wrong for the Southern model, but Im now hoping Bachmann stay true to form and produce something more varied that finally includes up north.

 

Heres hoping.

Edited February 28, 2015 by The Black Hat

[Oldddudders]

 

Heres hoping.

And, trust me, there are some of us Southern types who would be deeply, deeply grateful for someone gratifying the NER contingent, just so we can stop being told how lucky we are!

[davidw]

Oh well no Thompson pacific on the horizon then.....

[Multiple identity account]

Errr No. Thats now a class 71, Merchant Navy and Adams radial

Disagree with that... The Adams Radial is part of the 2015 range. It even features in the 2015 catalogue. Hornby said it will be avaiable latest in early 2016.

 

The Class 71 and MN are the only 2 locos that are early announcements made.

[The Black Hat]

And, trust me, there are some of us Southern types who would be deeply, deeply grateful for someone gratifying the NER contingent, just so we can stop being told how lucky we are!

 

[PhilH]

I sometimes wonder if we ought just to have a generic new model announcement thread, keep the same posts but simply change the name of the subject matter. In my opinion, and I stress that, each new model thread just seems to go along the same well trodden path without too much originality.

 

Can there be anything new to say on the matter other than I do/ don't like it, I do/ don't want one, it will / won't be out this year?

 

Just sayin'...

[The Black Hat]

 

Disagree with that... The Adams Radial is part of the 2015 range. It even features in the 2015 catalogue. Hornby said it will be avaiable latest in early 2016.

The Class 71 and MN are the only 2 locos that are early announcements made.

 

 

Errr No. Thats now a class 71, Merchant Navy and Adams radial, with the first two now taking the main places in the 2015 announcement due in December!

 

Thats what I said. As in the 71 and Merc would normally be announced in Dec 2015, for the 2016 range.