coachmann Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) What would be the best coach to buy to run with 6412 (in BR Green)? Can't decide between BR Maroon or Crimson and Cream. To answer your question directly, I would run the carmine with a lined green 64XX up to around 1958-9 and a lined maroon coach is modelling later than that but liveries were very fluid because of the length of time they lasted on low-mileage branch stock, so you do have choices. Edited November 6, 2015 by coachmann 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted November 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2015 To answer your question directly, I would run the carmine with a lined green 64XX up to around 1958-9 and a lined maroon coach is modelling later than that but liveries were very fluid because of the length of time they lasted on low-mileage branch stock, so you do have choices. And there you have it. Straight from the keys of our resident coaching stock guru.No better authority. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I've gone mad and bought one of each, they really are my cup of tea. However, i've already spotted an error, strictly speaking the plain crimson W237 should have a different interior, consisting of DMU type coach seats in a changed layout. If you re-number it to the earlier 1951 batch, then i'm not sure they were in plain crimson (only the later 1954 batch). Same goes if you want to apply the names "Thrush" or "Wren", they gained two different rebuilt interiors, so the Bachmann interior will again be wrong. There were four different diagrams for Hawksworth autucoaches! So these otherwise excellent looking models represent Diagram 38 nos. W222W to W234W and 220/1 in 1951 before rebuilding, but i wouldn't worry too much. Here are a few quick snaps. BK 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) Where can they be purchased Brian? Also what is the bogie construction like....The Bachmann LMS coaches or something better? Edited November 6, 2015 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Derails Models Posted November 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2015 They don't half look nice :-) hoping ours will be through tomorrow! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Where can they be purchased Brian? Also what is the bogie construction like....The Bachmann LMS coaches or something better? Hi Larry, I was tipped off by Robert Carroll, he'd bought a plain crimson one from Ian Allan Waterloo on Thursday evening. I bought mine there this afternoon, someone said they'd had them since Monday, but i'm not so sure? The bogies have centre screw and split axles running in phosphor-bronze contact strips, which suggest illumination, but no lights on my trio? I'll do an upside down pic for you. BK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted November 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2015 Well, I have looked in that place in Liverpool, as well in Scarborough today, and there are none of the autocoaches to be had. Interesting how models get distributed to the trade. With regards, Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted November 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2015 Hi Larry, I was tipped off by Robert Carroll, he'd bought a plain crimson one from Ian Allan Waterloo on Thursday evening. I bought mine there this afternoon, someone said they'd had them since Monday, but i'm not so sure? The bogies have centre screw and split axles running in phosphor-bronze contact strips, which suggest illumination, but no lights on my trio? I'll do an upside down pic for you. BK For the money I thought they were illuminated. A bit disappointing to find they're not.Why the bronze strips then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted November 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2015 Well, I have looked in that place in Liverpool, ...................... I had a message from them to say they were expected by Monday 9th November Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Definitely no lights in any of my three, but they've obviously been designed to include it, witness the power pick-ups on the bogies. These coaches aren't cheap as they are, maybe the cost of adding lights, would have made the price too high? Perhaps they'll offer lights as a future option? BK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Inside each box, there's a slip of paper that shows how and where the end pipe detail goes on, is that a first for a 'OO' coach? A nice touch, and amongst the detail parts, is a leading loco oil lamp for the autocoach cab front. Intriguingly, the brief instructions also tell us how to safely remove the body, but still no mention of lights. I s'pose we'll all be installing passengers? BK 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I was told that it was to make it easier for the modeller to fit lights if he wished. (CJL) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) Thanks for showing the underside of the bogie. The bogies follow the same pattern as earlier LMS bogies on the Inspection Saloon and Porthole coaches except that the GWR pressed steel bogies on the Auto Coach look to be 'closed' at both ends now and are therefore much stronger. This has been made possible by attaching the coupling to the bogie in place of the previous swivelling thingie. The phosphor bronze 'bearings are as before. Edited November 6, 2015 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenway Park Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 It's frightening when the coach is nearly the same price as the loco 64XX OK it will be cheaper than the Hattons DJM 14xx. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 If you read the relevant section of John Lewis's otherwise excellent book "GW Autocoaches Vol.2.", i think there's some confusion over the liveries of these vehicles, especially regarding crimson and maroon. As far as i can see, all the 1951 batch (220-234, diag.A38) when new were painted crimson and cream, and all the 1954 batch (235-244, diag.43) when new were painted plain crimson, nothing changed until after 1956/7, when repaints were in either plain maroon or lined maroon. Concerning non-corridor stock post-1956, the general trend was plain maroon usually came first, followed by lined maroon, there is proof that a WR General Manager (Stanley Raymond?) was keen on lined stock for their smarter appearance, including DMUs, although he also got rid of the chocolate and cream corridor stock livery. Some Hawksworth autocoaches remained in plain maroon until withdrawal in the mid-60s. The dilemma for Bachmann would have been that the 1951 version and interior (as produced) is probably not correct for plain crimson, equally producing the 1954 version with DMU seats, would have precluded application of the crimson and cream livery. I think they made the right decision, but they still can't correctly produce "Thrush" (diag.A39) or "Wren" (diag.A40) and any of the 1954 batch, without new interiors (which probably could not be justified). They could correctly do 225,228,231 and 232 in "preserved" DVR/GWS chocolate and cream, but would they sell? BK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) A photo of Thrush in lined maroon with an unlined black 14xx with early crest as motive power. I am not too sure of the blue seats in the Bachmann model, I thought they were either either brown or red. Also needed are curtains that most of these Hawksworth trailers had I was thinking of using the laser cutter to produce these in paper or 2 thou perpex Edited November 7, 2015 by David Bigcheeseplant 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 The bus type seats were red I will see if I can find a photo. I have a lined maroon one on order if I can get into it I will see how easy it is to change the seats, I could see if I could design and 3D print replacement seats for Wren and Thrush and the bus type seating would anybody be interested in these? I am sure there is plenty of underframe bits that need adding too so may do an etch. Also Masokits do a spung bodie kit for the Hornby Hawksworths so will use these on the bogies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Oh dear! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas G Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) Hi Coachman, I am really sorry - I never meant to break your copyright, and I was only trying to be helpful. I have deleted the post. I was getting mixed up between some photos I took at Didcot and your ones which I found ages ago on the web (on RM Web I think) and which I kept for my own reference only for some 2mm models of these coaches I was building. It was so long ago that I forgot the source, so please accept my apologies. The ones I have from Didcot are on film negatives that I realise I have never scanned in as JPEGs. Douglas Edited November 7, 2015 by Douglas G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted November 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 7, 2015 For the money I thought they were illuminated. A bit disappointing to find they're not.Why the bronze strips then. Disappointing, yes, but still useful. You could add lights or even use them as extra pickups for the loco, especially if someone is running a wonky old Airfix 14xx still. The details looks great, footsteps on the end, interior cab detail and what I can see of the underframe looks light years ahead of what was previously available. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I do like the external shades of colour on all three of the autocoaches, IMHO a very good rendition of the liveries, including new and clean plain crimson (compared to Bachmann's good weathered crimson on their BR subs). One negative is the white or cream floor inside (i ask you), which is rather glaring (and impractical). Looking at Larry's genuine pics, i can glimpse red oxide floor paint, it looks authentic, or did the preservation people just pop down to Screwfix? For the model, anything darker will be an improvement, surely these cars had carpet or a strip of lino in the saloons, can't really tell from the pics in the JL book? BK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) I do like the external shades of colour on all three of the autocoaches, IMHO a very good rendition of the liveries, including new and clean plain crimson (compared to Bachmann's good weathered crimson on their BR subs). One negative is the white or cream floor inside (i ask you), which is rather glaring (and impractical). Looking at Larry's genuine pics, i can glimpse red oxide floor paint, it looks authentic, or did the preservation people just pop down to Screwfix? For the model, anything darker will be an improvement, surely these cars had carpet or a strip of lino in the saloons, can't really tell from the pics in the JL book? BK I took it to be lino or some hard wearing floor covering. The red/carmine seat covering looked to be new as if the brown on some seats was the original covering. The brown paint in the interior was lighter than that used on GWR coaches. I can't wait to get my hands on a model.... Edited November 7, 2015 by coachmann 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted November 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 7, 2015 Disappointing, yes, but still useful. You could add lights or even use them as extra pickups for the loco, especially if someone is running a wonky old Airfix 14xx still. The details looks great, footsteps on the end, interior cab detail and what I can see of the underframe looks light years ahead of what was previously available. The lighting in these coaches was in any case dim,to say the least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas G Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 The red-brown colour of the seats is also very visible in this image of what appears to be W233W: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/t/tiverton/tiverton(8.1962)old4.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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