dibber25 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 This BLI SP Parlor Observation car is $89.99 (pre-sales tax) or about £58. (It is lighted.) Other coaches for the same train are $79.99 (£52), though they are still lit. Hornby's new Pullman coaches are £49.99 and they are also lit. £59.99 seems slightly high for an unlit model, but it is not wildly out of line. EDIT: Plus, how many autocoaches will anyone buy? One, maybe two? You don't need a whole train of them. The price I quoted was as stated by Jason Shron in his recent piece in Model Rail, plus my own experience of actually buying cars and having the VAT and UK charges take the actual cost to over £100. However, from Jason's comments it is clear that assembly time is what pushes the cost up and that is directly related to labour costs in the individual factory and to the relative complexity of the model. There is clearly huge competition to hire and retain staff and this will push wage rates higher whilst Chinese legislation requires them to go up by an across-the-board 20% per annum for the next five years. Price comparisons, therefore, will only really work for products made in the same year in the same factory. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 This particular British modeller is what is known as "SKINT", and when the price of a model coach is getting on for 10 times my hourly pay rate I think a little bit of moaning is not out of order. I'm sorry but if you can spend a quarter of your weekly wages on anything to do with model railways, then you are better off than me! I do empathise with your (& others) situation, honestly I do but all I am saying is that there is a trend amongst British modellers to whinge and moan about prices of everything. You don't have to have everything that HornBach-HelDa bring out do you? Not at first release, surely? There is a shop not that far from either of us (Arcadia, Shaw) who quite often puts very recently released models into his 'second hand' pile because someone has bought the latest release then brought it back to trade, a week (or less) later and then it goes for roughly half price. If you or anyone else cannot afford something new, wait & save up, wait & get a bargain or do without - just, please don't moan about it because it won't change anything. Oh! That coach I linked to earlier? I would have very much liked it as I've travelled on the real thing and it 'makes' a complete train for me but not at that price, I HAVE to wait! Cheers, John E. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 This particular British modeller is what is known as "SKINT", and when the price of a model coach is getting on for 10 times my hourly pay rate I think a little bit of moaning is not out of order.I can sympathise with your condition in every respect but your complaint about Bachmann. Times will get better and then you will be able to afford the models. In the meantime make representations to your employer about your wages! Regards 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 If the Bachmann Hawksworth trailer really is going to be £60 I just hope that it does is afflicted with bogies as poor as those on the Portholes. If it does, I predict a sharpening of pitchforks and a march on Barwell which will make the Peasants Revolt of 1381 look like a tea party. Oh yes, and increased sales of better bogies from other suppliers. For those agonising over whether to bite the £60 bullet or settle for the Comet kit, I have to say that the latter was not one of their finest, overlooking the admittedly subtle body contour in favour of a flat side. I happen to enjoy building kits [who is this strange man?] but if an rtr model comes along which is clearly superior I could easily settle for that. How much did you say Hattons pre-order price was? Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDJR7F88 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 New RRP. £68.95! Would Hornby's Southern Designed 2-car Auto Set work if it was connected to a 64xx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted March 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2015 For me the focus of a train is the locomotive and that’s where I want to see detail. The stock the loco hauls needs to be dimensionally accurate, flush glazed and well finished but I don't need the amount of individually fitted detailed parts as I need on a loco. If there was a range of stock available to the standards of the new Hornby MK1 at the same sort of price point I would be happy. I suspect that the manuafacturers would be happy as well as they would be able to produce the models in greater numbers with less reliance on skilled labour (which could then be redirected to those products where we do want detail). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted March 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2015 For me the focus of a train is the locomotive and that’s where I want to see detail. The stock the loco hauls needs to be dimensionally accurate, flush glazed and well finished but I don't need the amount of individually fitted detailed parts as I need on a loco. If there was a range of stock available to the standards of the new Hornby MK1 at the same sort of price point I would be happy. I suspect that the manuafacturers would be happy as well as they would be able to produce the models in greater numbers with less reliance on skilled labour (which could then be redirected to those products where we do want detail). Perhaps we need Bachmann to introduce their version of the old Triang CKD kits... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) For me the focus of a train is the locomotive and that’s where I want to see detail. The stock the loco hauls needs to be dimensionally accurate, flush glazed and well finished but I don't need the amount of individually fitted detailed parts as I need on a loco. If there was a range of stock available to the standards of the new Hornby MK1 at the same sort of price point I would be happy. I suspect that the manuafacturers would be happy as well as they would be able to produce the models in greater numbers with less reliance on skilled labour (which could then be redirected to those products where we do want detail). Even if they did produce an auto-coach to the (surprisingly good) standard of the Hornby Railroad Mk.1s, they couldn't match the price, purely because of the much lower number of sales to be obtained from them. Hawksworth trailers ran in small numbers in three four liveries for about 15 years on one region. Mk.1s ran in large numbers all over the country for more than half a century in all the colours of the rainbow. John Edited March 2, 2015 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robday12 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I'm sorry but if you can spend a quarter of your weekly wages on anything to do with model railways, then you are better off than me! I don't think I said anywhere in my post that I spend 25% of my wages on this hobby of ours. The last items I bought were Bachmann "Porthole" corridor third about six weeks ago, prior to that at Expo EM north, I spent about £45 on solder, liquid poly cement and tools. Thanks for the heads up on Arcadia, it's a shop I have been meaning to visit for some time. I'll have a trip up there soon. Cheers, Rob 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted March 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 2, 2015 £68.95 for plastic mouldings, because at the end of the day that's what they are, basic plastic mouldings with a bit of assembly . Well scratch that one off the list. I fear for the DBSOs now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 As said earlier sell them as kits with the body painted, vast majority of buyers are modellers and wouldn't be bothered by building them. Hardly a good subject with limited usage appeal, to then be subjected to price hikes as well is potentially commercial suicide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Hawksworth trailers ran in small numbers in three liveries for about 15 years on one region. I make it four - blood and custard, unlined crimson, unlined maroon and lined maroon. Chris 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ady77014 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 What the Dickins?!? Nearly 70 pounds. I would say that was still good value if you unable to make kits (like me I am utter rubbish) but that is seriously eye watering. Might only get one instead of all three which I was originally considering... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) I make it four - blood and custard, unlined crimson, unlined maroon and lined maroon. Chris Agreed (post amended accordingly) I omitted the same one that Bachmann are omitting, but it doesn't affect the arithmetic of the rest of my post. John Edited March 2, 2015 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 New RRP. £68.95! It is a big change from yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01001 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Its getting to the point soon where a 00 RTR coach will cost over £100 . The Birdcadge might cost more than a Hornby M7. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Its getting to the point soon where a 00 RTR coach will cost over £100 . The Birdcadge might cost more than a Hornby M7. I think that's a tad pessimistic but the set of three definitely will and may well exceed the price of the Hornby MN. John Edited March 3, 2015 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooderz Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I was planning on getting a Bachmann Autocoach to go with the 14xx that Hattons are releasing, but at £68 for a single coach , that has put pay to that. it'd work out to be £167 for the new 14xx and Bachmann auto coach. shame as it'd have been quite a nice loco and coach Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted March 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2015 David's original post and link suggests that the driver's handrails may be moulded. For that money, I'd expect a model in a class of its own, with as much separate detailing as possible. It's true that autocoaches do have a lot of additional bits and bobs compared to normal coaches, what with brake/control gear, bells, hand rails, footsteps, lamp irons and so on - but wow, nearly 70 pounds for a coach? Even with interior lighting, that's a very steep price - and yes, I have done my share of coach kits/conversion so I know what's involved in terms of time/money. I'd have expected it to cost somewhat more than a bog standard Bachmann coach, maybe 30 - 50% more, but that is indeed a shocker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 I have got a Comet kit of the same autocoach but will still be getting a Bachman one, and will no doubt do something creative with it to, If there are moulded handrails I will replace them. If have Thrush you need to sort the inside out! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2015 I was planning on getting a Bachmann Autocoach to go with the 14xx that Hattons are releasing, but at £68 for a single coach , that has put pay to that. it'd work out to be £167 for the new 14xx and Bachmann auto coach. shame as it'd have been quite a nice loco and coachThe new Kernow newsletter advises £58.95. In line with the Inspection Saloon. Where's the beef ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Sorry Ian you'll need to get your calculator out, as you're comparing the 15% discounted price for the autocoach against what was the full price for the inspection saloon. I do expect to pay more for single type coaches with high detail, such as the autocoach and inspection saloon, however if you compare the discounted price of the Class 66 pannier (just released) at £69.70, there is only £11 cheaper for the non motorised coach that it pulls at the new price. For me the biggest 'beef' is that Bachmann only priced the autocoach at £59.95 in the last few months as it neared production and to whack on another £9 as its about to go into production (approx 15%) is taking the p---. I had ordered 2 Hawksworths, but am now reducing that to 1 and will use one of my Hornby detailed autocoaches when I want to run a pair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2015 OK....Now compare the auto coach with any of the Hornby Gresley coaches. There have in any case been price increases since the release of the saloon last Sept..In the light of that,I do not think it is an unreasonable amount .We don't like it but the only course of action any of us can pursue is a decision not to purchase .You don't need a calculator to make that decision.So it looks as if the autocoaches will stay on the shelves....at least as far as some are concerned. That's a choice to be made.,...other that is than to build one yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) Always difficult to evaluate cost of RTR over that of a kit. If you work out your time in building a kit, then the rtr auto coach works out cheap! If you enjoy kit building.......it's cheaper still as your time costs you nothing and the pleasure gained is immense. If you don't have the time, or skill to build one......then RTR it is, and your basically paying someone else to do everything for you. And at what cost........the cost of a curry out for two and a few pints? Yes I could home brew, and probably make my own curry, but it wouldn't be the same and the enjoyment no where near as good. Which will give you most lasting pleasure.......of course no one has to buy anything, it's all comparative really. Edited March 6, 2015 by BlackRat 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooderz Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Ian, lets put this in perspective. I have just got a brand new super detail Hornby Castle for £60 (it was going cheap!) and I also got a Bachmann Hall for that price too a few weeks back. no coach is worth as much as a locomotive in my view. you can buy a small rake of wagons for that amount as well. I just cant see how they can justify such an amount for a single coach, 2 auto coaches for 68 quid fair enough. to my knowledge, it doesn't even have lights either. I'm not one to normally grumble about prices but this has got my goat. I dread to think how much the Ransomes and Rapier crane will be when Bachmann release that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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