Black 5 Bear Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Reading all this about the continual spiral of prices I'm glad I don't have a wife, ex-wife, partner, kids, grandkids etc., etc., was born a baby boomer, was able to get a decent job when I left school, was able to build up a reasonable pension pot over the years and retire at age 55...... and after paying income tax, council tax, utilities, running a car and food etc. all the rest can go on model trains......bliss Keith Apart from the Wife, I'm in the same boat, lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 So if you are waiting three years, and you haven't paid in full or paid a deposit, why wouldn't you expect the price to go up.....at least by the cost of inflation? We all know costs go up, and rarely do they go down. The business has to recover those costs. We pay. Or are folks hinting that Bacchy are deliberately over inflating prices.............. Probably not, they know their business. It's up to Bacchy, if items dont sell, that's their prob and it will be up to them to reduce costs, if they can afford to do so. It wasn't that long ago (or maybe it was!) that Lima Locos were available for £3.99 and there were that many about, you couldn't give them away! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) So if you are waiting three years, and you haven't paid in full or paid a deposit, why wouldn't you expect the price to go up.....at least by the cost of inflation? We all know costs go up, and rarely do they go down. The business has to recover those costs. We pay. Or are folks hinting that Bacchy are deliberately over inflating prices.............. Probably not, they know their business. It's up to Bacchy, if items dont sell, that's their prob and it will be up to them to reduce costs, if they can afford to do so. It wasn't that long ago (or maybe it was!) that Lima Locos were available for £3.99 and there were that many about, you couldn't give them away! I have paid up in full in the past on pre-orders, however the retailer cannot afford to take the hit and I would be the last one to expect this. They inform me (genuinely I believe) that they are getting really fed up having their profit margins cut to the bone, having to explain to customers the reasoning behind substantial price hits and delays. I think Bachmann will lose independent retailers as a result or is that the end game I wonder ??? Edited March 7, 2015 by Black 5 Bear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Plus, how many autocoaches will anyone buy? One, maybe two? You don't need a whole train of them. But one is a whole train of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 But one is a whole train of them. Except when there were two, three or four of them. Admittedly, up to late 1961, it would be likely that one or more would be an old A28/A30 (Airfix type) and until the mid-fifties there were a fair number of even earlier types around. Indeed, up to 1958, you could even consider a Diag L trailer in its last days, the David Geen kit is a snip at £92 plus wheels, paint, time, etc. Nick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 What is rather interesting Craig comes directly from the trade, I'm quite friendly with a number of suppliers and they are thinking of ending their Bachmann franchise because as one chap put it "They are just too expensive for what they are". They agree wholeheartidly that they don't want models that they can't sell gathering dust on shelves. I understand fully that Bachmann are a business and need to make money to pay staff, their suppliers, pay dividends to shareholders etc, however there is a ceiling at what most folk will pay and I feel this company are very near to the top of it. Hornby on the other hand, honour the pre-order price of items however long it takes them to get on the market where Bachmann do not. Is it reasonable to pre-order an item and wait 3 yrs plus for it to surface only to find it has gone up by at least 50% ???? You could put it the other way round that they are located in the wrong place or have the wrong business model for selling Bachmann products. As for Hornby it does depend on the time scale between announcement and availability. Is "doing an Exeter " a good business model? Bachmann do seem to want to keep the punters informed at as an earlier stage as possible. As for reasonable to expect a 50% increase over 3yrs plus....a lot of people would bite your hand off to get that sort of offer Bernard 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Well said Sir! i feel exactly the same way and i will not be buying any of there over priced stuff! It's going to be interesting to see how there sales go over the next year or so?, was in my local shop the other week and even he was saying how the hell he going to get his customer to by Bachamann stuff at the new high prices, he also told me that sales of their stuff have dropped right off!. I don't think peoples' long-term reactions will become clear until the older stock has worked its way out of the system and everything on the shelf is at the new prices. In the meantime, it is perfectly logical to snap-up the "cheap" stuff while you can! During the recent "Golden Era" of highly detailed models at low prices, many who regard themselves as modellers developed a collecting habit and could afford multiples of models they would previously have bought on the basis of layout requirements and others they just fancied but would not have bought at all. It can be argued that the current situation is a market correction to distortions that arose from Hornby transferring production to China and Bachmann's reactions to it. Hornby have been pushing up prices for a while and Bachmann appear to be taking it further so those of us with modest means will have to put a bit more thought into our acquisitions. John Edited March 7, 2015 by Dunsignalling 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I fully agree with you about the "Exeter Fiasco",it wasn't a good business model to follow.What I find strange is that you make no mention of the lack of updates on the Stanier 5MT, 24(1) etc save to say they are at drawing dept stage. The next time I go and purchase a motor vehicle or another expensive item and pay for it in full, should I expect the dealer to increase the purchase price ??? I don't think so. I respect your point of view, please respect my opinion and that of others who are like minded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I have paid up in full in the past on pre-orders, however the retailer cannot afford to take the hit and I would be the last one to expect this. They inform me (genuinely I believe) that they are getting really fed up having their profit margins cut to the bone, having to explain to customers the reasononing behind substantial price hits and delays. I think Bachmann will lose independent retailers as a result or is that the end game I wonder ??? Bachmann assured us at the meeting last week that their terms and conditions with retailers remain exactly the same and they have no intention of using a wholesaler or selling direct. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
90rob Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Well if that is the way that prices are going, then I think the thing to do is probably to be a bit more selective in what we buy. I am as guilty as many other 4mm modellers of having far more rolling stock than I am ever likely to use. I wouldn't mind betting that there are plenty of O gauge modellers out there who have nothing but a Lionheart pannier and autocoach and a few wagons and yet turn out very acceptable layouts which are a joy to both build and operate. If you think in those terms, then £140 for a 64xx and Hawksworth doesn't seem too bad at all - you just need to be more selective and keep repeating to yourself 'It's nice to see so many new items that I don't want' (tongue in cheek mode)...! Wonder how long before Bachmann offer the engine/autocoach combination as a set? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 7, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2015 I am very tempted to get one of these, but can't really justify a 6400 or 1400 as well, at least for now. Were any other locos used with them presumably as hauled stock - when a 6400 or 1400 was not available? I'm thinking of BR period in particular. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2015 I am very tempted to get one of these, but can't really justify a 6400 or 1400 as well, at least for now. Were any other locos used with them presumably as hauled stock - when a 6400 or 1400 was not available? I'm thinking of BR period in particular. Thanks. Yes,is the short answer. If you can find a copy of "The Red Dragon and other old friends " (LDR Publications 2006),you'll see an instance on page 90 of 5656 running around its train at Neath General.The train is composed of two auto coaches.On the Vale of Neath line,it was frequently a case of "anything goes"....particularly the 8:55 p.m. from Swansea to Aberdare/Pontypool Road,which for me was a treat at the end of a day out at Langland Bay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 How about a 41XX then I have also a photo of a LMR 2-6-0 Mucky duck on a single auto trailer in the 1950s 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2015 How about a 41XX then I have also a photo of a LMR 2-6-0 Mucky duck on a single auto trailer in the 1950s How about a J15 on it next David? All the debate apart I banged in my pre-order for a lined maroon one this afternoon - just after collecting 6407 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted March 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2015 ?All the debate apart I banged in my pre-order for a lined maroon one this afternoon - just after collecting 6407 That's an interesting combination Mike I take it you'll be getting a BR liveried 64xx too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) That's an interesting combination Mike I take it you'll be getting a BR liveried 64xx too. Indeed I will - and if the black one is any guide at all it is going to be a delectable little thing. Now does anybody want to buy - if I can find it - an Airfix 144XX and even a Ks 14XX (complete body, fully assembled by a well known model railway magazine publisher) ? But the Airfix auto trailer can undergo some 'revamping' I think. Should have read 6417 of course - too busy drooling over its performance on the Alton test track to get the number right!! Edited March 7, 2015 by The Stationmaster 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2015 How about a J15 on it next David?All the debate apart I banged in my pre-order for a lined maroon one this afternoon - just after collecting 6407 Yes,the little pannier is a stunner,no doubt.Whisper it softly,I think the autocoach will eventually be the "jewel in the crown" of the pushn'pull. I'm up for the crimson and cream variant as I have distinct memories of a run to Abercynon in one in the mid 50's.But to really complete the ensemble,we need a Hawksworth suburban second sandwiched between the pannier and the autocoach...at one end anyway.I must have had innumerable runs with 6417 and her sisters....but black,always black. The green came along after the dmu's worked the branch. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 But to really complete the ensemble,we need a Hawksworth suburban second sandwiched between the pannier and the autocoach...at one end anyway. Sorry, Ian, I think you'll find it was a C66 or C75, both Collett designs. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2015 quote name="chrisf" post="1809001" timestamp="1425754887"]Sorry, Ian, I think you'll find it was a C66 or C75, both Collett designs. Chris Well,many thanks for that.Never too late to learn.I think though it would be a stunning combination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted March 7, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2015 Whilst this coach is expensive, you can also consider that you can buy a prototypical train consisting of a tank engine and an autocoach which offsets the priceyness of the coach. I'll be getting one at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 There are pictures of a '94XX' on the Gloucester-Chalford auto. You might not want to wait for one of those, though! Also, there's some movie footage that we used ages ago in a Model Rail DVD programme, which clearly shows the whole cab of a Hawksworth autocoach leading a 14XX downhill, at Stonehouse, if I recall correctly, and there is quite clearly NO ONE in the autocoach cab! CHRIS LEIGH 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhys Underwood Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The Dartmouth Steam Railway had a pair. They used them as hauled stock before they sold them in 2010 I think. Only thing is they carried Chocolate and Cream. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Morning all, I've not posted in here before but gwrrob suggested I post these pics in here from the Bachmann Product Launch last Monday. There not brilliant pics I'm afraid as there taken through the glass cabinets. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) Andy thanks for the better photos. Why oh why is there a brass bell the old Airfix one had the same, and in all cases the bell was painted the same colour as the coach body it was attached to, it must cost more to get it painted a separate colour than body colour, oh well out with the paintbrush. I wonder how easy it will be to get inside of as the seating and inside woodwork could be picked out in various shades. There seems to be a handbrake handle in the drivers compartment but no regulator handle. also the moulded handrails I think need to be replaced. Being someone who likes to model rather than collect models and raise them to a standard I am happy with. Any RTR model I can use to get a result which is top notch with minimum effort is worth it. Maybe an add on detail etch with the missing auto gear under either end will be forthcoming but a small supplier. Also a number had curtains Shire Scenes do these as an etch but, those with curtains do have different look. I have always had a soft spot for autocoaches they just seem more interesting than normal coaches. David Edited March 8, 2015 by David Bigcheeseplant 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Substitute Bachmann for the BBC in the following video and you get what a lot of people on here seem to believe!! ROB 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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