Rob F Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 With the current state of the manufacturers I fear that some of my pre-orders will be arriving in the reign of King George VII More likely King George VIII. I think Charlie has already bagsied King George VII as his regnal name as Charles is considered unlucky. ROB [edited for spelling] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I wonder how long we'll have to wait for the Class 450? It isn't a brand new model, requiring only a few relatively minor changes (remove panto gear and some under-frame detail adjustments) and a re-livery from the Class 350. Presumably a release date will be more a matter of production slots and market timing? When they arrive, they'll be taking the biggest single chunk of my RTR spend in years, as I'm probably looking at buying 3 or 4 of them. p.s. Then I'll be craving the 444 and 377 to go with them, as well. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I suspect that an announcement is simply a warning to competitors to discourage them from developing the same product. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I suspect that an announcement is simply a warning to competitors to discourage them from developing the same product. In general yes, but in the case of the 450, any discouragement would have already been in effect for the last 3 years or so, since the 350 was announced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phatbob Posted March 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2015 Parkside haven't brought out anything new recently so they've got nothing to copy... P True, but Wild Boar Fell has provided a crane that they could copy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Fascinating to see the "Desiro" announced - it being though that 4-car multiple units were too expensive, they go and do a five car one ! No, it's a 4 car one... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2015 The Bachmann website front page does contain what could be a clue to the reason for extended development times - a certain job advert is still there, some time after first being mentioned on RMweb. Kader have, it would seem, suffered quite considerably from the impact of the closure of the former Sanda Kan factory and subsequent events which would appear to greatly disrupted the planned changeover of production and development work to another factory and this has perhaps contributed to the delay in getting previously announced Bachmann products to market? Equally being a subsidiary of Kader we can presume that Bachmann don't have the choice of others in being able to go to any factory in China which happens to be looking for work and can get on with it quickly even if some of it has to be sub'd out to another factory. Hornby now have this sort of choice and provided they can control and manage it closely enough it will (for the time being?) probably deliver them an advantage in getting announced product to market more quickly than Bachmann - but as experience quality wise seems to be showing such an approach does require close management attention. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Apparent timeline of a manufacturer's new product announcements. Wish listing - fantasising - speculation - elation/despair - expert analysis - complaining/resignation - shopping list - funding calculation - purchase - frothing - start over again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2015 I wonder how long we'll have to wait for the Class 450? It isn't a brand new model, requiring only a few relatively minor changes (remove panto gear and some under-frame detail adjustments) and a re-livery from the Class 350. Presumably a release date will be more a matter of production slots and market timing? . A SWT Class 450 was not that long ago proposed by Model Rail as a limited edition. The magazine even canvassed interest to see whether there was sufficient demand, before committing. Then it all went quiet, presumably because Bachmann would only produce a limited edition as an additional to a standard production run. Now it seems Bachmann thinks there's enough interest to produce it as a standard release. In these circumstances perhaps some preparatory work has already been done and the lead time may be relatively short, i.e. before too many annual price increases throw the sales projections out of the window. Let's hope so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 No cheap sound locos from Bachmann..... Hornby got one over on them on that front, even when Bachmann mentioned the idea 3 or so years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40F Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 At least Bachmann and Hornby have models to sell ---- unlike a certain other manufacturer . No names no pack drill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Forthcoming items is not a category I have seen before in the magazines - in worst case I guess it could just be a marker - a pity as I had my eye on a Beachy Head before I expire. No-one else has answered your question about chronology so to whip up some interest (or possibly apathy when you see the figures !!) My understanding is that the order is .... Drawing Office/Design / Toolroom / Eng prototype / Artwork / Livery Sample / Production / Delivery .... as a first rule of thumb I have estimated based on observation that one should allow around 2-3 months for each stage but there is a significant spread in each stage... I have been tracking progress of those items I am interested in detail as advised by the magazines/retailers since September 2014 and for longer by announcement/order date since I first heard it was due and my estimate to date is that in the best case an item gets through the process in about 16 months - so far my worst estimate based on this is about 30 months (i.e. 2.5 years). So for example many items get through drawing office in 2-3 months - but the Webb Tank and the LMS Mogul have been there since at least Sep 2014 - i.e. 6-7 months !! I would guess speed through the early stages is to do with workload, and a mix of complexity and how much information is already held so for example .... I would be interested to hear other correspondents views on how they derive estimates of realistic delivery dates. You have the functional stages there, that enable a model to progress from 'we'll produce a whatever' to a product that may be purchased by customers. There can be problems in each of these stages that cause more time to be required. Starting from key information proving not to be available at the research stage - the 4CEP was reported as badly delayed by this, and another manufacturer has recently revealed a product on hold from a similar cause - and there are many more possibilities in each stage that could lead to delay. (It would be truly interesting to know for any given degree of complexity of a product, what the best attainable pace is; this could be estimated on near equivalent but time critical product such as slot cars. How long from release of the new season car designs or from Lewastian Ricciberg securing the championship, to the slot car model hitting the shops? Much the same work as developing yet another pannier tank: mechanism layout all much as before, new body and livery scheme is the big job.) But there is also a business process, and in a 'tight' environment that has a massive influence on progress. When times are good, the controls come off; money is easily available to quickly get the product out in front of customers to bring in yet more profit. But that's not the present. The investment spend will be closely controlled and directed to whatever product lines have the best advance orders (indicating customer demand) and offer the largest margins, for the best and quickest Return On Investment (ROI). Kader is a diverse business, and if one of their divisions finds a product they can quickly develop and manufacture in multi-million quantity for a good margin, that's where the investment - and thus the internal resources of the business - will be directed. Products offering smaller ROI can wait, and will keep the staff gainfully employed in between the more profitable 'rush' priority projects. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see products dropped in this environment. If the advance orders simply don't indicate sufficient demand, you cannot take the risk. Bachmann did this in N gauge a few years ago, so it is clealy something they are prepared to countenance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted March 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2015 I thought that Model Rail were looking at producing a Bachmann 350 liveried as a 450 (and minus the pantograph), rather than as a newly tooled model? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2015 Apparent timeline of a manufacturer's new product announcements. Wish listing - fantasising - speculation - elation/despair - expert analysis - complaining/resignation - shopping list - funding calculation - purchase - frothing - start over again. Where does Adrian fit into that sequence? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Where does Adrian fit into that sequence? Somewhere in the Expert analysis - complaining region? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2015 Somewhere in the Expert analysis - complaining region? With a reprise performance in frothing - start all over again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 Nothing additional added to the 00-9 range then? There are items of interest; through the Liliput range there are 3 coaches which have seen use on the Welshpool & Llanfair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted March 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2015 Why ??? The 64 can go where the 94 can't. I hope the new 94XX will haul 12 coaches without slipping. Otherwise there will be no point in having one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted March 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2015 I thought that Model Rail were looking at producing a Bachmann 350 liveried as a 450 (and minus the pantograph), rather than as a newly tooled model? The 350s and 450 units ARE IDENTICAL (except that the 450s don't have the 25KV transformer or pantograph fitted). The 350/0 sub class origionally being ordered as 450s for SWT then diverted to LM by the DfT and as a result they got pick up shoes etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 .....Kader have, it would seem, suffered quite considerably from the impact of the closure of the former Sanda Kan factory and subsequent events which would appear to greatly disrupted the planned changeover of production and development work to another factory and this has perhaps contributed to the delay in getting previously announced Bachmann products to market? Are you being a bit presumptuous there Mike? The ill-fated Sanda Kan facilities were only bought by Kader in more recent times (late 2008) and was producing OEM products for various third party American and European model railway brands (including as we know, Hornby). Kader's own factories catered for their own brand production needs prior to that. According to the company web site, the two Sanda Kan factories accounted for 1.2 million sq/ft out of a total of 2.85 million sq/ft of Kader production real estate. When they called notice on a large number of client companies being catered for at the Sanda Kan plants, do we know how much of Kader's production for its own brands were moved there, if any? Clearly the closure of Sanda Kan has had a significant financial impact on the company and has also meant that there's been a consolidation of the remaining production taking place at Sanda Kan into the other Kader factories. They have reported other significant restructuring and consolidation issues having to be dealt with as well. It might well be that restructuring production arrangements and production contracts for other companies (lucrative contracts taking priority) have knocked back own brand production capacity, rather than being about moving production of Bachmann branded products. Our parent company, Kader Industries, has faced a major reorganisation which involved transferring plant and production from a former factory into the main Kader complex. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
County of Yorkshire Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 There are items of interest; through the Liliput range there are 3 coaches which have seen use on the Welshpool & Llanfair. jpg71.jpg jpg72.jpg jpg73.jpg Finally, some GWR coaching stock!! CoY Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I thought that Model Rail were looking at producing a Bachmann 350 liveried as a 450 (and minus the pantograph), rather than as a newly tooled model? The 350s and 450 units ARE IDENTICAL (except that the 450s don't have the 25KV transformer or pantograph fitted. The 350/0 sub class origionally being ordered as 450s for SWT then diverted to LM by the DfT and as a result they got pick up shoes etc. As Phil says, the two EMU's are virtually identical as the 350/0's are really "stolen" 450's in disguise. It shouldn't require a re-tooled model when it's only detailing and added bits that need changing? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Really pleased to see the 94xx on the horizon and the steam crane will find many a good home I'm sure. The news regarding the Blue Pullman is a surprise granted, but in it's own way is very welcome - I know some folk are quite puzzled by it's inclusion in the list, but it does show that the Leicestershire mob have faith in the tooling and I for one am glad it's there. I wonder how many people who already have one also already own copies of any (or all three!) of Kevin Robertson's books on the subject though...presumably there will be an extended print run to go with the BP sets...? Here we are in 2015, the 'outside' world seems to have gone to pot but our hobby keeps rolling along... Old Oak 'Egg & Chips' pilot anyone...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mevaman Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 For those of us modelling Waterloo-Exeter and the West Country, I wonder if the new Mk 2 BFK NSE (39-412A) is in the West of England lighter blue? Hope so! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1056WesternSultan Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 All I wanted was an upgrade to the china clay wagons correct bodies and corresponding chassis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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