woodenhead Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I still think this is a wider recognition of the impact on the charter companies who all depend now on WCRC. If there could be a proper competitor out of Crewe then it would balance the market and ensure WCRC keeps on top of things as it has competition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko22 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 You never know Crewe could throw a spanner in WCR works, it just put it forward as WCR routes go back to Carnforth Steamtown where they did just what the guys at Crewe have just started doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Crewe has much better facilities too, the shed looks impressive inside after all those years of dereliction. At Carnforth they've been building a small extension to a pre-fab coach shed for months, I bet it's grim inside the old steamsheds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher125 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Seems WCRC aren't enhancing their reputation with the last minute pulling of 35028 from today's DBS-operated Golden Arrow Statesman, an intervention by David Smith according to posts on Nat Pres. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted May 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2015 About the only post on this subject without supposition and hearsay on NP is the one by 'Wayne'. That one gives the story from as near the horse's mouth as it is possible to be without being hay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted May 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2015 With respect to the philosophy to safety management in the UK if anybody is interested in the subject then I recommend that you read the Robens Report which led to the Health & Safety at Work etc Act of 1974. The Robens Report provides the rationale for self regulation and moving away from imposed prescription and is well worth reading. Bo Accord is entirely correct in his observations on the shipping comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2015 An operating incident with 1Z27 tonight. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U63629/2015/06/13/advanced Suggestions it was the train starting whilst passengers were still getting off - BUT I STRESS not confirmed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
25901 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 An operating incident with 1Z27 tonight. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U63629/2015/06/13/advanced Suggestions it was the train starting whilst passengers were still getting off - BUT I STRESS not confirmed. Lets keeps to the facts or this will get locked, WCRC kicking has already started on "Factbook" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko22 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Ok well it was cancelled, with the comment on RT saying an issue with train crew. Either way its not promising for WCR! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2015 Lets keeps to the facts or this will get locked, WCRC kicking has already started on "Factbook" The information has come from a passenger on the train - probably pretty accurate information. I don't generally speculate, but I had seen (and reported) a status update speculating another SPAD so I posted the information here to stop that rumour. 37706 is in charge of the train, rather than Mayflower, now running as 5Z27 to Southall. Never heard of Factbook - where's that ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
25901 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 "Factbook", the media center of all truth, please press like and continue to Farmville lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2015 The reason I posted has been confirmed as occurring at 19:43. I won't be pressing like anytime soon though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 This video has appeared on YouTube in the last hour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_WoLyz0qmQ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Video of the short forward movement and subsequent staff actions: https://www.flickr.com/photos/danwarman1/18789584972/in/dateposted/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2015 Video of the short forward movement and subsequent staff actions: https://www.flickr.com/photos/danwarman1/18789584972/in/dateposted/ I wonder why it stopped that far up in the first place? Well past the stop marker board & RA indicator, and interesting to compare with the position which the Class 37 started from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gary H Posted June 14, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2015 I wonder why it stopped that far up in the first place? Well past the stop marker board & RA indicator, and interesting to compare with the position which the Class 37 started from. Atleast there was no SPAD, already pointed out by Beast above. I just hope this is not going to get blown out of proportion by wibble and speculation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Atleast there was no SPAD, already pointed out by Beast above. I just hope this is not going to get blown out of proportion by wibble and speculation. The train moved without permission - if passengers were alighting or doors open there could still have been serious injury. It's not a SPAD across a junction but it's still serious nonetheless, However, i hope that the subsequent actions about relieving the driver etc all came from WCRCs new working practices so it can be shown that WCRC did the right thing after this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderHead Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I think we're well past the speculation stage when it comes to WCR's competence to run mainline passenger services … Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 14, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2015 Atleast there was no SPAD, already pointed out by Beast above. I just hope this is not going to get blown out of proportion by wibble and speculation. While the enthusiast crowd will get vocal and use the incident for more WCR / NR bashing the truth of the matter is the initial actions of WCR after the incident occurred were exactly what the ORR and NR would expect to happen. The crew were relieved of their driving duties by placing the class 37 with a fresh crew on the front (getting hold of a fresh steam crew part way through a charter is naturally going to be nigh impossible - the original crew may have remained on 'Mayflower' to manage the boiler while the train was towed back to the depot). What the ORR / NR will now be looking for is that WCR have held a proper internal inquiry as to the specifics - re briefing all staff within the organisation of any findings and providing any necessary retraining to those who need it. All standard stuff which ordinary TOCs and other charter operators already do and things which should be in the revised SMS that WCR have been required to implement as part of their permission to be allowed back on the mainline. As for the incident itself - other charter operators including DBS have been guilty of doing this in the past though it has been virtually eliminated by TOCs through the use of power operated doors / central door locking on Mk3s which prevent movement when they are open. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I think it would b unrealistic to expect 100% perfection - if it turns out that this is the first incident out of many trains that have now been run that has to be taken in to consideration, and if WCRC can demonstrate that they have reacted to it and dealt with it appropriately, it might give some confidence that the management procedures are actually now working properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko22 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Ok while relieving the steam crew and putting the 37 on the front to take control of the train was the correct action, if the steam crew have messed up (seems to be the status quo of what has occured). Did the service have to cancelled and the passengers all be booted off? Couldn't the train carry on with passengers as there was a fresh crew on board taking control of the train? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted June 14, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2015 Whatever has happenned, you have to feel for the driver. Everyone - including those who seem to take every opportunity to criticise - makes mistakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2015 The train moved without permission - if passengers were alighting or doors open there could still have been serious injury. It's not a SPAD across a junction but it's still serious nonetheless, However, i hope that the subsequent actions about relieving the driver etc all came from WCRCs new working practices so it can be shown that WCRC did the right thing after this. Exactly so. There very clearly was not a SPAD but on the face of what we have seen the train stopped in the wrong place having run past the marker board and the RA indicator - which immediately creates a potential problem in giving the ready-to-start signal to the Driver (who was in any case on the opposite side of the cab of course). Thus there would appear to have been an initial error which could potentially have been a factor in what appears to have happened. We simply don't know at this stage who was responsible for the Driver being relieved (and perhaps we never will) however if there was an Inspector on the engine - there appear to have been three people in the cab - he should have been aware that the train had stopped in the wrong place and made sure that starting away procedures were properly observed. While the above items might (or might not) be potential factors in what took place the critical part is that it appears the train began to move before station work was complete and, presumably, before any sort of signal was given that the train was ready to start and that is what any Inquiry will centre on especially as it is an area which has long been a particular concern of ORR for the very simple reason that such incidents are dangerous and have in the past resulted in fatalities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Jonboy Posted June 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2015 How long was this train and how long is the platform space from the RA marker to the far end? (I only ask as I have seen a few comments on a couple of forums over the last year or two criticising the number of coaches added to these heritage runs in a bid to maximise the revenue and wonder on the length verses say an HST). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 14, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2015 Ok while relieving the steam crew and putting the 37 on the front to take control of the train was the correct action, if the steam crew have messed up (seems to be the status quo of what has occured). Did the service have to cancelled and the passengers all be booted off? Couldn't the train carry on with passengers as there was a fresh crew on board taking control of the train? It would have taken time to establish the facts then get the 37 onto the front (plus the need to shuffle the train back along the platform a bit (compare the two videos in this thread). As such the charter train would have lost its booked path and finding another one may have been difficult on the fly so to speak. Going to the final destination as planned would also have added a significant amount of time to the passengers journey - plus you need to consider the support crew who will have been on duty well before Passengers joined the train. Finally there is the fact that many of those who chose to travel on steam hauled charters get VERY annoyed by having diesel traction anywhere near it and as such are hardly going to be impressed by having a 37 drag them to the trains destination (presumably Paddington?). Reading station is actually one of the better places to terminate short if circumstances force it. You have lots of options for passengers to make their way home from there plus the charter train can return straight to Southall depot. It might have been a bit different if the incident had occurred in the north of Scotland or the middle of Wales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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