RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2015 The important thing seemed to be to for people to actually think about potential hazards, their potential seriousness and likelihood followed by the steps they'd taken to ameliorate them. The hazard form couldn't be completed by ticking boxes and "No hazards identified" wasn't a satisfactory response either as there are always risks. Undoubtedly, some people did take the process more seriously than others but nobody could say that they didn't know it was their responsibility. Organisationally the first step has to be to identify what needs to be done - both as commonsense safety and in order to comply with legislation. Generally in the railway world the two overlap fairly well - most of what is required by legislation, particularly ROGS, is what any safety conscious organisation will already be doing but possibly not maintaining the correct records of what they're doing. However it has been found that in some cases in the heritage sector that even the commonsense stuff isn't happening let alone the administration of it and that is when the ORR can start to get a bit 'heavy'. I agree wholeheartedly with Ian about BR, the problem which developed there was that we went well beyond (I think) 'safety' and started to spend far more time talking about it than actually developing simple systems of ensuring the industry did things in the safest manner - there's a big difference between senior management covering its legal backs and doing things in the truly safest manner and regrettably the intervention of the legal trade at some very public inquiries has not necessarily helped. But overall things have improved greatly in the wider rail industry and it is very much a matter of recognising what needs to be done and then continuing to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilloverland Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Well - they're definatley running again, I sent 2 black 5s this morning from York NRM to Fort William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Well - they're definatley running again, I sent 2 black 5s this morning from York NRM to Fort William Well done. Nice to see everything coming back together. A question, though. They ran from Grosmont to York yesterday. Was that to collect support vehicles? Otherwise I would have thought that a direct Grosmont-Fort Bill movement would have saved time & access charges? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilloverland Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Well done. Nice to see everything coming back together. A question, though. They ran from Grosmont to York yesterday. Was that to collect support vehicles? Otherwise I would have thought that a direct Grosmont-Fort Bill movement would have saved time & access charges? Not overly sure what they did other than they stabled at the NRM overnight. Rang off as 5Z46, both engines in steam with 2x support coaches. Was a bit late aswell, I tried my best but only got them fast line as far as Tollerton - too many Virgins knocking about! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenw Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Its remarkable (almost unbelievable) that they could achieve such a change of culture in just 4 or 5 weeks. Agreed, but then they were 'co-operating' with NR over the issues relating to last year's steam ban, or at least were until they tired of it. Still don't know whether to be pleased, as a steam fan, or worried, as a professional, will wait and see on that one. The other week at **** depot, I heard that 'B' were operating one of WCR's trains after 'A' who'd initially been approached to took a look at their stock and replied 'we're not touching that' (don't want to name names here) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko22 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 While it's nice to see Steam running again on Charters, it's fair to say WCR haven't done themselves any favours the fact some people are unwilling to work with them and the ORR have to make their decision as to pulling their operating licence they seem to be on their last life. The sad thing is if they do have another issue what ever it may be who is actually going to take up the space left by them?? Running steam trains on modern railways is an issue in it self these days. Lets hope WCR can come back from this improved, keep going and gaining a positive reputation instead of one which at the moment is realistically in the edge, because if not it could be a while before we see the number of steam charters we have available to us now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted May 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 10, 2015 While it's nice to see Steam running again on Charters, it's fair to say WCR haven't done themselves any favours the fact some people are unwilling to work with them and the ORR have to make their decision as to pulling their operating licence they seem to be on their last life. It's understandable that some people will have lost trust in them, and that trust can take a long time to get rebuilt. If it's been enough of a shock to WCR for them to genuinely change then it will happen, hopefully it'll be the wake-up that'll ensure the future rather than end it. Being forced to act now should do good in the long run, even though it would've been better if it had never come to this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 The sad thing is if they do have another issue I rather hope they don't... As a professional railwayman I hope that they have now got their act together, every day my passengers and I trust my fellow TOC, NR and Freight company railwaymen and women with our lives and I have no issues with them, if the staff from that company can't guarantee they will abide by the Rules then I suggest they quit. Now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted May 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2015 As Hobby says we all need confidence that others are playing by today's rules not the 80's. The railway has changed significantly in operational style and regulation since accidents of the late 90's and early 2000's so those championing the old way would rather return to that? Investment in safety was done and the remaining lines are busier and safer than ever, would we really change that? Specials aren't less exciting than before, you've seen steam at its fastest since the 60's last year! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Specials aren't less exciting than before, you've seen steam at its fastest since the 60's last year! Not quite, faster steam specials were to be experienced in the dying days of BR in the mid 90s, not entirely officially of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted May 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2015 But now legally, so surely a forward step when so many say we are more risk averse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted May 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 10, 2015 The railway has changed significantly in operational style and regulation since accidents of the late 90's and early 2000's so those championing the old way would rather return to that? People who want things from the past seldom want every single little thing from it, there's usually good from all times. If I could choose when I was alive now wouldn't be it but that doesn't mean there aren't things I'm glad to see the back of. But now legally, so surely a forward step when so many say we are more risk averse Some people say that NR are anti-steam but they do seem to be open to such things when they can be worked out, such as the Bittern runs or, at the opposite end of the speed scale, the GWR Railmotor on the Looe branch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted May 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 11, 2015 NR isn't anti steam and there are people making huge efforts to sort paths, I know as they ring up to check things out and make sure it works for the Ops dept. There are also a quite a lot of enthusiasts high up in TOCs, some well known and some who don't publicise the fact but active volunteers on preserved lines Steam can run easily in freight timings but paths are more limited purely because there are so many trains and regular flows have to take priority as they are repeat business. That's good business not anti steam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted May 11, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 11, 2015 I don't disagree with that (although it's not as if I'm remotely in the know), it's just that I hear comments occasionally which make it sound like they'd like to find a reason to get rid of mainline steam. As you say I don't see any sign of that, it's not the same as having difficulty finding suitable paths for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted May 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 11, 2015 Rumours abound and certain people no doubt see it as irrelevant but like air shows heritage rail has it's place in the modern world and you should see even the jaded commuters when steam comes through, they get all excited and phones come out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 11, 2015 But now legally, so surely a forward step when so many say we are more risk averse Quite agree. I travelled at 85mph on a steam special back in 1984 but there were certain differences - the crew were all well experienced ex mainline steam men including Drivers who were used to running fast in BR days as Drivers so while more or less unofficial (there was a fairly benevolent 'watching eye' who knew what was happening and said nothing because only engines in tip-top condition were taken that fast) it was unusual as well. The situation has changed multiple times since then and there are no doubt as many senior managers today who look on mainline steam unfavourably as there were back then, equally there are clearly supporters of it and they will hold sway as long as it remains safe and profitable for NR. Once the awkwardness and costs begin to escalate then curtailment is probable in some form or other. Equally if operators can't do the job properly then problems might ensue and that too might result in 'the end' - or severe curtailment. At present we simply do not know but as long as the business is profitable and resources are available then I expect it will continue, but one more bad SPAD and it won't.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Rumours abound and certain people no doubt see it as irrelevant but like air shows heritage rail has it's place in the modern world and you should see even the jaded commuters when steam comes through, they get all excited and phones come out. For me Steams finest moment in the preservation era was the night Tornado rescued the stranded passengers from Victoria when nearly everything electric was off due to the snow, how I would have loved to have been on that train. jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted May 11, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 11, 2015 The BBC, now that they starting to return to normal (after seemingly to have gone masively over the top with all things election related), have noticed WCR have had their suspension lifted. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32622534 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 5944 Posted May 11, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 11, 2015 Have received an email this evening confirming that the "Dartmouth Express" next Friday will be running. Motive power not confirmed but Britannia is at Bristol AFAIK ready to take over at Westbury!!!! Terry Reportedly a DBS operation, as is the Statesman "Golden Arrow" on 23rd May - now using 35028 Clan Line rather than 34067 Tangmere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Richard E Posted May 11, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 11, 2015 Rumours abound and certain people no doubt see it as irrelevant but like air shows heritage rail has it's place in the modern world and you should see even the jaded commuters when steam comes through, they get all excited and phones come out. In York it is quite amazing as it is in Peterborough. Get a steam special and it is all sorts with cameras, phones, the lot. Ranges from middle aged blokes in pinstripes through youngsters to pensioners of all backgrounds. You'd swear there weren't that many 'enthusiasts' around unless you were there to see it. Sometimes the scrum is such that the station staff have had to cordon off platforms so rail users can get at their trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Quite agree. I travelled at 85mph on a steam special back in 1984 but there were certain differences - the crew were all well experienced ex mainline steam men including Drivers who were used to running fast in BR days as Drivers so while more or less unofficial (there was a fairly benevolent 'watching eye' who knew what was happening and said nothing because only engines in tip-top condition were taken that fast) it was unusual as well. The situation has changed multiple times since then and there are no doubt as many senior managers today who look on mainline steam unfavourably as there were back then, equally there are clearly supporters of it and they will hold sway as long as it remains safe and profitable for NR. Once the awkwardness and costs begin to escalate then curtailment is probable in some form or other. Equally if operators can't do the job properly then problems might ensue and that too might result in 'the end' - or severe curtailment. At present we simply do not know but as long as the business is profitable and resources are available then I expect it will continue, but one more bad SPAD and it won't.. Quite agree. I travelled at 85mph on a steam special back in 1984 but there were certain differences - the crew were all well experienced ex mainline steam men including Drivers who were used to running fast in BR days as Drivers so while more or less unofficial (there was a fairly benevolent 'watching eye' who knew what was happening and said nothing because only engines in tip-top condition were taken that fast) it was unusual as well. The situation has changed multiple times since then and there are no doubt as many senior managers today who look on mainline steam unfavourably as there were back then, equally there are clearly supporters of it and they will hold sway as long as it remains safe and profitable for NR. Once the awkwardness and costs begin to escalate then curtailment is probable in some form or other. Equally if operators can't do the job properly then problems might ensue and that too might result in 'the end' - or severe curtailment. At present we simply do not know but as long as the business is profitable and resources are available then I expect it will continue, but one more bad SPAD and it won't.. I had the pleasure of working with the man who was in charge operationally of the Marylebone steam specials. One of the popular railway magazines published an article about a high speed run - well one in excess of the agreed speed limit - so Management sent one of their brightest prospects to investigate what was happening. Said prospect was invited to take the regulator and when speed was approaching 90mph was photographed in the act! Investigations ceased thereafter! But as Mike points out, this was in the era when there was a pool of experienced drivers and inspectors on hand who knew what was safe and would not have pushed things too far. Without wishing to denigrate the ability of today's crews, they do not have the experience of day to day operations that was available then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted May 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 11, 2015 DBS steam drivers are drivers on today's railway. WCRC drivers, apart from the much publicised recent addition, are ex-other TOC drivers.. I think posts like the above do these men a disservice and exposes some of the urban myths surrounding today's main line steam operations. For what it's worth I have no doubt that a lot of drivers from the era you describe would struggle with the complexity of operations on the modern railway. It's a whole different ball game now....you can't just exceed speed limits for the hell of it, everything is recorded on OTMR and modern day footplate crew are accountable for everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted May 11, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 11, 2015 DBS drivers are drivers on today's railway. WCRC drivers, apart from the much publicised recent addition, are ex-drivers. Ex-drivers? If they are still driving, then they are most definitely not "ex". Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted May 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 11, 2015 Ex-drivers? If they are still driving, then they are most definitely not "ex". Cheers, Mick Um...somebody who finished driving yesterday is an ex-driver.... Edit...I see what you did there...oops. Blame the worst man flu ever in the whole wide world. Grumpy doesn't even begin to cover it.i've edited the post to try and get over what I mean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted May 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 11, 2015 There are some very good steam drivers today and that's recorded in the various magazine timing columns. I've seen superb performances from guys who aren't old enough to have driven steam for BR but take great pride in enginemanship and count themselves as very lucky to be chosen and pass out. It's interesting to hear the comments too on their respect for contemporaries. I remember we used to let steam go regularly in front of late service trains when we knew the loco could do it, not so common now as it depends on the knock on effects so much they need time to check its impact so if control is busy it tends to be 'in booked path' but on the right day with time to check Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.