RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted May 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 2, 2015 Should a worker have the right to wear a beard, regardless? http://www.theage.com.au/business/workplace-relations/no-shave-no-job-bhp-billitons-decision-to-sack-worker-over-beard-vindicated-20150502-1mxt18.html I would agree with the decision to sack him. Safety in the mine is of extreme importance and importantly, anyone who may need assistance for Emergencies, needs to know that anyone providing such assistance, will do so in the most expedient manner. Messing about with specific instructions, to deal with individual choices (because if you allow one to have an exemption, then others will want to do so too), isn't the best way to deal with emergencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefrog97 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 What if the worker in question follows a religion that means they have to wear a beard or where wearing a beard is part of a person's culture? That to me would easily begin to seem discriminatory. That said, I do agree with you: in a job where safety is paramount and beards could prevent any emergency or standard safety equipment from working at optimum levels, then there should be some restrictions. HOWEVER, I still don't think someone outrightly religious or who follows a different culture should be forced to disregard their own principles, there should also be some leniency in these situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 This thread is developing all the right ingredients to send me into stratospheric ranting in breach of all forum regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted May 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 2, 2015 This thread is developing all the right ingredients to send me into stratospheric ranting in breach of all forum regulations. You've got a beard haven't you........I can tell..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 In some lines of work, facial hair is a no-no if you need to wear a mask linked to an air supply, since the mask needs a proper seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 What if the worker in question follows a religion that means they have to wear a beard or where wearing a beard is part of a person's culture? That to me would easily begin to seem discriminatory. Like wearing a turban exempts you from wearing a helmet? What if you're an astronaut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neil Posted May 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 2, 2015 Such a difficult question. Under normal circumstances I would hold that a chaps facial fuzz is his own business. However an employer has a duty to protect their employees, and this extends (in the UK) to protecting them from their own foolishness or inattention. This means that in safety critical situations an employee can not opt out of wearing personal protective equipment, though it does look to be that Sikhs are exempt from wearing head protection on building sites and possibly other workplaces. I've no idea what Australian workplace regulations would permit or prohibit, but I guess that they won't be too far from the UK. I do wonder if in this particular case the beard is a stalking horse for some other issues with the sacked employee. Are divers and pilots expected to be clean shaven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamjamie Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Disney have guidelines that must be followed for hair styles, facial hair and tattoos, which have nothing to do with safety(!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Like wearing a turban exempts you from wearing a helmet?What if you're an astronaut? Then theoretically (or should that be theocratically?) you're at greater risk in space. No religion is a substitute for an air supply unless you intend to meet your Maker that much quicker.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Disney have guidelines that must be followed for hair styles, facial hair and tattoos, which have nothing to do with safety(!) Disney workers had to fight for the right to wear their own pants Ew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 2, 2015 Disney have guidelines that must be followed for hair styles, facial hair and tattoos, which have nothing to do with safety(!) Hence the expression "working for a Mickey Mouse organisation"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Surely someone should just conduct a crash test. Place a turban and a hard hat in a control environment and drop various weights on them in identical conditions, measuring the deformation of each. If turbans perform better then perhaps it is they that should be made compulsory. If not, then up to the wearer - but as an employer, I would not be able to insure you, so would have to restrict your duties. Why should an employer risk legal action for someone else's religious adherence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I have never understood why some men grow beards. Is it because they don't like shaving, or some other reason? I never consider shaving to be an inconvenience, as I would be in the bathroom anyway and how long does it take - 3 minutes, max? Ok so I have to purchase a razor and some squirty shaving foam, but I do not see that as a chore, any more than purchasing shampoo or shower gel. If someone with a beard could tell me of the genuine benefits they gain from a hairy face, then I would be interested to know (honest!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I have never understood why some men grow beards. Is it because they don't like shaving, or some other reason?... They think they're being hip. Or maybe to hide a weak chin. I don't have much in the way of facial hair - an advantage of having Oriental genes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted May 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 2, 2015 I have never understood why some men grow beards. Is it because they don't like shaving, or some other reason? I never consider shaving to be an inconvenience, as I would be in the bathroom anyway and how long does it take - 3 minutes, max? Ok so I have to purchase a razor and some squirty shaving foam, but I do not see that as a chore, any more than purchasing shampoo or shower gel. If someone with a beard could tell me of the genuine benefits they gain from a hairy face, then I would be interested to know (honest!). Well, it does enable you to save part of every meal for later and none of the beer you spill goes on your shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 2, 2015 If someone with a beard could tell me of the genuine benefits they gain from a hairy face, then I would be interested to know (honest!). Because I can, and have worn one for most of the last 47 years. My late wife and many other women seem to like it. Next question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I have never understood why some men grow beards. Is it because they don't like shaving, or some other reason? I never consider shaving to be an inconvenience, as I would be in the bathroom anyway and how long does it take - 3 minutes, max? Ok so I have to purchase a razor and some squirty shaving foam, but I do not see that as a chore, any more than purchasing shampoo or shower gel. If someone with a beard could tell me of the genuine benefits they gain from a hairy face, then I would be interested to know (honest!). Why on earth would you assume it to be because we consider shaving an inconvenience ? That said, I did notice your mischievous little devil there..... I've had a full beard for the best part of 50 years and it's just who I am. The only time that it gets in the way of life is when I'm snorkelling. And before someone asks if that's a filthy euphemism for something else, it isn't [well, not in this case !]. Nope, it totally bu##ers the seal and lets water in. Not good. Not at all. Nope. Tony Because I can, and have worn one for most of the last 47 years. My late wife and many other women seem to like it. Next question. Encore that man. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 http://youtu.be/MKGai9_81gY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 A short 40 years for me behind the fuzz. Stopped my face getting frozen off on a few occasions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Not a "hairy face" man myself, but I have no problem with those that do. Having worked for over 40 years in the gas industry, distribution, I had to be very conversant and up to date with various types of breathing apparatus used whilst working in "live gas" situations - gas escapes, broken mains etc. We had 3 basic types, 1. A simple mask with fresh air hose - used on low pressure / small amounts of gas present. 2. Pressurised air inhale / exhaust for more complex / gaseous occurancies 3. Fully self contained (tank/s worn on back) similar to SCUBA gear. If I remember correctly facial hair was only a problem with the third type, which we very rarely used, and later on specially trained operatives only used this kit. With all types after donning the mask various safety checks were carried out, basically if your breathing air leaked in / out around the face you did not enter the gas zone. No one was ever questioned / disciplined etc over their beards etc. If you could not get a seal, you didn't enter the gas zone. Simple. New kit or different man. I don't recall many problems when using this kit - the problems where the mains we were working on !!. Of course it's different underground. If company rules say "NO" - then no it is. Full stop. Brit15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austrag Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 How does this relate to railways and model rail? Better to air this on a relevant forum like Mining Magazine or Mining Journal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 If hair grows there, surely it's unnatural to remove it. Humans do far too much messing with nature for their own good. I realised that about 12 years ago, but haven't totally got to grips with returning to my natural state, so every 6-8 weeks when it gets a bit annoying, I get the doggy hair clippers out, and coppice it. I don't have a dog who needs a hair cut any more, so need some use for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 How does this relate to railways and model rail? Better to air this on a relevant forum like Mining Magazine or Mining Journal. It doesn't really relate to railways, but this is Wheeltappers and so it doesn't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I have never understood why some men grow beards. Is it because they don't like shaving, or some other reason? I never consider shaving to be an inconvenience, as I would be in the bathroom anyway and how long does it take - 3 minutes, max? Ok so I have to purchase a razor and some squirty shaving foam, but I do not see that as a chore, any more than purchasing shampoo or shower gel. If someone with a beard could tell me of the genuine benefits they gain from a hairy face, then I would be interested to know (honest!). I have never understood why some men don't. Is it because they like interfering with nature, or some other reason?. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Collier Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 IIRC up to the First World War (possibly due to gas masks) it was compulsory for a British soldier to have a beard! Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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