Bachmann to produce S Stock for London Transport Museum

[melmerby]

Perhaps Knightwing will re-introduce their kit?

 

50 mm Drainpipe is exactly the right size to represent the deep tube lines (EFE stock). The S stock is surface stock which is virtually the same size as main line stock.

Normal UK downpipe is 68mm

 

Not really - the Met loading gauge is more generous than BR, and S stock is wider than main line stock. If these are true scale models, they will foul some "surface" model station platforms. Perhaps someone can post details of the routes used for delivery of the trains over Network Rail.

 

- Richard.

The original Metropolitan route (Paddington - Farringdon) was built to take GWR broad gauge stock and the track was mixed gauge. It was opened using GWR locomotives of the BG "Metropolitan" class:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_Metropolitan_Class

 

S Stock is 9' 7" which was the norm for the GW main lines

 

Keith

Edited June 4, 2015 by melmerby

[Metr0Land]

Not really - the Met loading gauge is more generous than BR, and S stock is wider than main line stock. If these are true scale models, they will foul some "surface" model station platforms. Perhaps someone can post details of the routes used for delivery of the trains over Network Rail.

 

- Richard.

 

The delivery train runs under an 'X' headcode 7X09 as there are clearance issues at some platforms in the West Midlands.  Signallers must route the train via specific tracks unless they get authority from God.  eg at Dorridge the train is routed via the goods loop with time for a stop. IIUC even if the train is not stopping it has to route via the loop.

[Joseph_Pestell]

The delivery train runs under an 'X' headcode 7X09 as there are clearance issues at some platforms in the West Midlands.  Signallers must route the train via specific tracks unless they get authority from God.  eg at Dorridge the train is routed via the goods loop with time for a stop. IIUC even if the train is not stopping it has to route via the loop.

If I remember the rulebook correctly, these being out-of-gauge would require any train that they pass to be stationary. So moving them (at quite slow speeds as indicated by the table above) must cause a lot of disruption.

[Joseph_Pestell]

If only LUL had taken on my design for replacement surface stock, which was articulated, Bachmann would not have had the problem of modelling the full-width gangway connections. It is the only disappointing feature of what looks otherwise to be a cracking model.

[PhilJ W]

Normal UK downpipe is 68mm

 

I should have said domestic waste water pipe, which is 50 mm. Tube tunnels are an average of 12 feet in diameter, except for the newer Jubilee tunnels. The other exception is the Finsbury Park to Moorgate tubes which are 16 feet IIRC so 68 mm pipe could be used for that. The new Crossrail tunnels are even larger but I'm not certain of their exact size. There is several tube based layouts and layouts incorporating tube lines, one of which has the aforementioned 50 mm pipe attached to the front of the layout cut out to allow viewing and access.

Edited June 4, 2015 by PhilJ W

[The Stationmaster]

If I remember the rulebook correctly, these being out-of-gauge would require any train that they pass to be stationary. So moving them (at quite slow speeds as indicated by the table above) must cause a lot of disruption.

Not necessarily - it depends entirely on the out-of-gauge conditions of passage applying to them.

[Horsetan]

Perhaps Knightwing will re-introduce their kit?...

 

Doubt it. Periodically they get asked the same question and the answer is usually words to the effect of "no".

 

And anyway, it has to some extent been superseded by the products of Judith Edge.

 

If only LUL had taken on my design .....

"I coulda' been a contender. I coulda' been somebody..."  #onthewaterfront

Edited June 4, 2015 by Horsetan

[melmerby]

The delivery train runs under an 'X' headcode 7X09 as there are clearance issues at some platforms in the West Midlands.  Signallers must route the train via specific tracks unless they get authority from God.  eg at Dorridge the train is routed via the goods loop with time for a stop. IIUC even if the train is not stopping it has to route via the loop.

I assume that this is because platforms have been re-edged since the days of the 9' 7" stock on the GW Paddington - Wolves route!

 

I wonder why the train doesn't go direct to Ruislip as they did in the past? That would avoid two reversals.

 

Keith

Edited June 4, 2015 by melmerby

[PaulRhB]

If I remember the rulebook correctly, these being out-of-gauge would require any train that they pass to be stationary. So moving them (at quite slow speeds as indicated by the table above) must cause a lot of disruption.

As Mike mentioned it depends on the individual train and the OPPOS restriction only applies in certain places plus it is usually no train on the adjacent track where it does apply.

Details at RGS online module TS1 section 15. Speed restrictions are usually because moving at certain speed causes the load to be foul of what they call dynamic gauge that allows for movement of suspension and track tolerance, again this can be width, height or weight (due to hammer effect).

 

For general info as I'm sure Joseph knows, out of gauge can refer to width, weight, height and even curvature restrictions.

Edited June 4, 2015 by PaulRhB

[big jim]

You definatly dont have to be stationary when you pass the s-stock move, many times ive passed it at 100mph driving a chiltern unit!

 

Regards ruislip: can the LUL line handle s-stock between the depot and neasden? I dont know anything about that line at all, ive certainly never seen s-stock on ruislip when ive passed?

 

As for the speed restriction on the delivery train its 45mph as the underground stock is unbraked, thats also the reason there are 3 vehicles each end, so there is sufficiant brake force/braked vehicles at each end of the train

 

Where is marcus 37 when you need him, he drives it all the time so knows the crack with it better than anyone

[Metr0Land]

I assume that this is because platforms have been re-edged since the days of the 9' 7" stock on the GW Paddington - Wolves route!

 

I wonder why the train doesn't go direct to Ruislip as they did in the past? That would avoid two reversals.

 

Keith

 

I could be wrong but I thought it was down to the volume of deliveries and having staff/depot space to cope with checking etc.  They were always delivered to Neasden from the outset, but due to various circumstances deliveries were stepped up to 2 per week for a while so the Monday delivery went to Ruislip and the Weds one to Neasden.

[big jim]

Just had an email back from the museum after i asked them a question regards an unmotorised set.........

 

"I am afraid at this current time there is nothing on the table to suggest that we will run an unmotorised set, but that would be a nice idea!"

 

.........Time to get lobbying!!

[melmerby]

Regards ruislip: can the LUL line handle s-stock between the depot and neasden? I dont know anything about that line at all, ive certainly never seen s-stock on ruislip when ive passed?

 

The depot has connexions to both the Central line and the Metropolitan line (which passes under the GW & Central Lines at this point) and I assume it is still to Met gauge:

 

https://goo.gl/maps/jtlvf

And there's this from another RMWeb page:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/50156-s7-stock-at-ruislip/

 

Keith

Edited June 4, 2015 by melmerby

[big jim]

Ah yes ive seen the line go underneath the mainline just past west ruislip but i wasnt sure if there was a link into the depot itself, of course the class 20s, sarah siddons, 4tc are usually stabled at ruislip so i would assume they travel there via that line so it must be in gauge

[Welly]

I went and ordered an S Stock rake as soon as I read about it here on Sunday and I inflicted more pain on my plastic when I decided to get myself a Northern Line 1959/62 train as well!

 

It arrived today - maybe, just maybe, I'll make up a Tube station sometime!

[Mark Dickerson]

Ah yes ive seen the line go underneath the mainline just past west ruislip but i wasnt sure if there was a link into the depot itself, of course the class 20s, sarah siddons, 4tc are usually stabled at ruislip so i would assume they travel there via that line so it must be in gauge

There was a S-stock set outside the depot last weekend, as I passed by indulging my long-term Thing about Sarah Siddons. (Not that I'm sure She's there at the moment?)

[Gwiwer]

One of the reasons the spur connecting Ruislip Depot (which lies on the Central Lines between Ruislip Gardens and West Ruislip) with the Metropolitan & Piccadilly tracks between Ruislip and Ickenham was to facilitate easier rolling stock delivery and removal.  It also gets used for engineering trains at times despite Neasden being one of the two major locations for these alongside Ruislip.  Ruislip Siding itself though not the curved spur is also used to turn back those Piccadilly Line trains which terminate at Ruislip and is available for Metropolitan Line turn backs in emergency.

 

The siding and spur are cleared for A-stock and as S-stock has replaced A-stock and also goes to some places that never could (such as around the south side of the Circle Line) I assume the kinematic window of S-stock is slightly smaller where it matters most despite the "fat" profile when seen end-on.

 

S-stock is delivered via both Ruislip (via the NR - LUL connection, reverse at the back of the depot, reverse on Ruislip siding and thence to Neasden depot) and via Amersham (reverse at Princes Risborough and Aylesbury thence to Neasden depot).   

[SRman]

The A stock was about an inch wider than the S stock, but as the profiles are quite different, the widest parts of each stock may well be at different heights.

[Gwiwer]

A-stock design and profile dates back to prototype cars 17000 of 1946 and 20000 of 1949 (both withdrawn 1953 and scrapped 1955) which were the first to test the wide-bodied profile which became so familiar for half a century on the "Met".  In that time it's also possible that track geometry and structure clearances have changed.  The prototypes and the A-stock itself were widest at floor level while S-stock is wider at a slightly higher point and has a tumblehome to the floor / sole-bar.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Gwiwer

[melmerby]

 

A-stock design and profile dates back to prototype cars 17000 of 1946 and 20000 of 1949 (both withdrawn 1953 and scrapped 1955) which were the first to test the wide-bodied profile which became so familiar for half a century on the "Met".  In that time it's also possible that track geometry and structure clearances have changed.  The prototypes and the A-stock itself were widest at floor level while S-stock is wider at a slightly higher point and has a tumblehome to the floor / sole-bar.

 

According to an article I read somewhere the S stock profile was arrived at as the widest that can be used without any work on tunnel clearances etc.

 

Keith

[PhilJ W]

The A stock was delivered via the Great Central, a straight run from Sheffield to Neasden.

[No Decorum]

This response from LTM might be of interest ro some.

 

"With regards to sound, there is a break out section in the seating unit on the power car with holes in the chassis to let the sound out. It has been left up to you to make your own mounting unit for the speakers - however you wish to go about this, as some speakers come with a sound box that already have mounting brackets on them."
 

[Andy Reichert]

I bet they haven't done the really brilliant thing. . . ..

 

Made the doors as separate items, so they can easily be removed and motorized without having to cut through the body to make the door openings. . .

 

Andy

Edited June 8, 2015 by Andy Reichert

[phil gollin]

 

...........    Made the doors as separate items, so they can easily be removed and motorized .................

 

 

.

 

I await your article on doing that with GREAT interest.

[James Makin]

I bet they haven't done the really brilliant thing. . . ..

 

Made the doors as separate items, so they can easily be removed and motorized without having to cut through the body to make the door openings. . .

 

Andy

 

It's been done before in HO though, and can you imagine the reaction from penny-pinchers when it turns out costing say another £100 on top of RRP to add the extra parts, can still remember the hoo-ha from when Hornby tried opening doors on the Class 50 all those years back... cue the word "gimmick" in every mag review and so on...!

 

It's a nice idea, but we've seen the finished article at DEMU Showcase and as we all know this model's on the high seas and one would imagine Bachmann have long since moved on to developing the next model...