Bachmann to produce S Stock for London Transport Museum

[brushman47544]

I haven't seen anything about this being a limited edition, only that the first 250 will get a certificate. So whether ebay presents an opportunity for quick profits really depends on whether the LT Museum has ordered for short term gain/sell out or sufficient for the longer term bearing in mind the units are new and should have a long life on LT metals...

 

...and of course how many people buy on ebay without first checking availability (and price) from the LT Museum. There are plenty of mugs out there who do that...

[Ozexpatriate]

I can't believe there are nine pages on this since Saturday morning.

 

I think this is an exceptional announcement.

 

There have been lots of people wanting tube stock for a long time. My impression is that most of these people wanted some kind of historical stock, but in the spirit of a museum commission the idea that people will purchase a model of what they can see every day has lots of currency.

 

I haven't read all nine pages yet, so I apologize if the following observation is redundant, but it is interesting that Bachmann took on such a big commission. They are rolling off their Ivatt C1 commission for Locomotion and we had 'heard' that they wanted to focus on their own branded items rather than commissions. Clearly there is an opportunity cost and production slots used for this model do mean that other announced products have to wait.

 

Nevertheless this announcement is very exciting news for people who would like modern tube stock.   My only question is whether it will have sound with "Mind the Gap" announcements.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Ozexpatriate

[Tase]

 

Nevertheless this announcement is very exciting news for people who would like modern tube stock.   My only question is whether it will have sound with "Mind the Gap" announcements.

Bif....where are you?

[Andy Reichert]

To put it another way, I don't see many tourists going home with a set. In any event, even if they wanted to, it's more likely they'd be beaten to it by mostly male UK-resident collectors (some of whom have eBay flogging in mind).

 

Au contraire, having been in the LT Museum shop in tourist time myself, the original EFE stock and various London Buses were flying off the shelves there. Many visitors want to take home "Uniquely London" mementos and presents for the children back home.

 

Andy

[GoingUnderground]

And it was to HO scale as well which one thought might have limited sales but apparently not so. They also had a very limited run of modern tube stock that was hand made. I saw one of the last ones left at an Acton Town open day about five years ago and I was debating whether or not to purchase it but by the time I had decided someone had beaten me to it. It might have been this that inspired the LTM to go for the 'S' unit models.

The LT Museum has commissioned 2 reruns of the '38 Tube stock, one for the final day of 38 Stock on the ELL, destination Whitechapel, Metropolitan Line, but with mind the step posters on the glass in the doors, and the other was of the Museum's own 4 car 38 stock with the actual running numbers, but transposed between the A and D DMs (Which is still available). They also commissioned a rerun of the '59/62 Tube stock, this time for the Northern Line in unpainted Aluminium livery, sorry, can't remember the destination, but it too is still on sale in the shop.

 

Which modern tube stock was it? 

 

Anyone ordered the S Stock yet? It's cash with order I believe.

[Dunsignalling]

Au contraire, having been in the LT Museum shop in tourist time myself, the original EFE stock and various London Buses were flying off the shelves there. Many visitors want to take home "Uniquely London" mementos and presents for the children back home.

 

Andy

Yes, but the models you mention didn't come in at the thick end of £300 a pop.

 

Maybe they should have commissioned some non-powered end cars for the tourist market?

 

John

Edited June 1, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[Legend]

Au contraire, having been in the LT Museum shop in tourist time myself, the original EFE stock and various London Buses were flying off the shelves there. Many visitors want to take home "Uniquely London" mementos and presents for the children back home.

 

Andy

But there is a difference in buying tube train coaches ,London Buses , taxis and buying a £280 4 car multiple unit. It's not a trainset either so not self contained, it relies on already having a layout or presumably a display cabinet. Hell of an expensive ornament though. I can't believe that casual visitors to the museum will buy this. It must be targeted at the enthusiast surely. Are there that many people really able to run an LT unit? . Can only assume that as it's a commission there is no risk for Bachmann and that LT museum are willing to take on the inventory costs of holding these until they are sold. As I've mentioned before it's a steep price for a 4 car unit in comparison to the APT which is a similar museum commission.

 

Seems the Network Rail 150 was some sort of a leg pull. Fell for it hook line and sinker!

[Huw Griffiths]

I think this is an exceptional announcement.

 

There have been lots of people wanting tube stock for a long time. My impression is that most of these people wanted some kind of historical stock, but in the spirit of a museum commission the idea that people will purchase a model of what they can see every day has lots of currency.

 

Fair comment.

 

I hope that, once the initial limited edition sells out, Bachmann are also able to produce renumbered versions - for sale in their regular range, through any model shops that wish to stock them.

 

I also hope that any licensing fees are kept at sensible levels.

 

A while back, there were comments in another section of this site about a (Halling) model of a Croydon Tramlink LRV - and the lack of further models, after the initial limited edition had sold out. Reasons for this were given "in thread" - but some people were less than happy, nonetheless.

 

 

I haven't read all nine pages yet, so I apologize if the following observation is redundant, but it is interesting that Bachmann took on such a big commission. They are rolling off their Ivatt C1 commission for Locomotion and we had 'heard' that they wanted to focus on their own branded items rather than commissions. Clearly there is an opportunity cost and production slots used for this model do mean that other announced products have to wait.

 

I could never imagine anyone from Bachmann commenting in public - but I wonder if a commission of this nature might suit Bachmann's purposes.

 

As well as giving them the chance to build up a relationship with the LT Museum - and TfL - this might also give them the opportunity to gauge potential interest in models of "Underground" trains in general.

 

I can't help wondering about other potential subjects, if this one works out as well as expected (D78 - 1992 tube stock - DLR trams units - who knows?).

 

 

Nevertheless this announcement is very exciting news for people who would like modern tube stock. My only question is whether it will have sound with "Mind the Gap" announcements.

 

If Bachmann were to follow this, at a later date, with models of D78 trainsets, some people might wonder what accent would be used for "Mind the Gap" announcements ... .

 

Although I personally have no use for a S Stock trainset model, I'll still be interested to see developments on this one.

 

 

Regards,

 

Huw.

[melmerby]

I wonder whether the solid inter-car ends are removable?

 

If so an aftermaket flexible connexion could be a useful add-on.

 

Keith

[gc4946]

Yes, but the models you mention didn't come in at the thick end of £300 a pop.

 

Maybe they should have commissioned some non-powered end cars for the tourist market?

 

John

 

LT Museum's shop sells non-powered end cars, however they're models of the 1992 Central Line stock

 

https://www.ltmuseumshop.co.uk/models/trams-and-trains/product/london-tube-train-toy.html

[JSpencer]

But there is a difference in buying tube train coaches ,London Buses , taxis and buying a £280 4 car multiple unit. It's not a trainset either so not self contained, it relies on already having a layout or presumably a display cabinet. Hell of an expensive ornament though. I can't believe that casual visitors to the museum will buy this. It must be targeted at the enthusiast surely. Are there that many people really able to run an LT unit? . Can only assume that as it's a commission there is no risk for Bachmann and that LT museum are willing to take on the inventory costs of holding these until they are sold. As I've mentioned before it's a steep price for a 4 car unit in comparison to the APT which is a similar museum commission.

Seems the Network Rail 150 was some sort of a leg pull. Fell for it hook line and sinker!

Could not agree more. They would want a return and profit on the first run of these knowing that the market "might" be limited for these which would mean risk edging on the side of caution (low numbers).

 

I have always fancied some tube stock but I will probably hold back on this one. (Me who ordered the APT-E, the C1 and Stirling Single on the first day, equally the S stock is a 21st century design that I tend to avoid). I wish them the best of luck however.

Edited June 1, 2015 by JSpencer

[newbryford]

Yes, but the models you mention didn't come in at the thick end of £300 a pop.

 

Maybe they should have commissioned some non-powered end cars for the tourist market?

 

John

 

Looks like "tourists" don't buy the cheaper powered models either. The limited edition Class 20, prairie and pannier are still available.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Horsetan]

Au contraire, having been in the LT Museum shop in tourist time myself, the original EFE stock and various London Buses were flying off the shelves there. Many visitors want to take home "Uniquely London" mementos and presents for the children back home....

These are a world away - especially in price - from the Bachmann "S".

[Ozexpatriate]

Having seen the model at DEMU today, I have to say it looks the part, and the new low profile mechanism is simply stunning (not from above, side on or below could I see it!). The intervehicle coupling is apparently the same type as used on the blue pullman. Interior lights have not been fitted as this would apparently add £60 or so to the price.

... I must admit I am disappointed that there is no internal lighting. Something I consider essential considering they spend most of their time in the dark.

The bloke on the badhmann stand at the weekend said there is provision to fit interior lighting from after market suppiers, i should imagine the likes of train tech will do/already do something suitable

I had another look at the promotional video and was reminded of my first thoughts when I first saw the video, that a tube train really should have an illuminated interior and, even more than most other passenger trains, be populated with passengers to look "right".

 

It's a project for someone.

 

As much as I like the look of this model and wish the LT museum every success with it, for now I'll stick to the traditional (facetious) tube train layout. "You can't see it, it's ..." etc.

[John M Upton]

My biggest issue with the real full size S Stock apart from the ride quality and lack of seats (oh yes and the really annoying automated announcer that I really wish would blow a fuse and shut up!) is the open plan design.  I am old school and believe each carriage should be separated by proper bulkheads and connecting doors so that in the event of fire/bomb/nutter you can evacuate to adjacent carriages in the first instance and there is a barrier to provide a bit of time and protection.

 

Now a major incident can take out the entire seven or eight carriage train in one easy step.

[47137]

Anyone ordered the S Stock yet? It's cash with order I believe.

 

Yep.

 

Last week I sorted out my contract to the end of the year and today the car passed its MoT. This release couldn't have come at a better (or worse) time, I cannot possibly run it at home but it will fit on the club layout.

 

- Richard.

[RANGERS]

I had a good look at this in the LT Museum this afternoon and they do look pretty good models. I'm not certain how close the samples in their cabinet are to the finished articles but the aren't bad as they stand so it can only bode well for the future.

 

The EFE sets retail at between £150 and £200 each in the museum shop and they seem to sell in reasonable numbers so I see no reason why a motorised set costing a fairly modest amount more won't sell in sizeable numbers and if they have exclusivity on them, they have a greater degree of control over the supply. I've seen some well heeled tourists spend substantial amounts in there on anything from models to furniture (the sofas trimmed in LT moquette are a real curio!) so the spend is there, whether it's enough to repay the guarantee they've put up remains to be seen but I reckon it won't be a problem.

[PaulRhB]

Yes I checked out the costs in the LT shop and £80 more than the more expensive EFE one seems reasonable as you'd spend more on the motor bogies, wheels and time for the mods. Getting any of the EFE units professionally motorised would end up costing more than the 4 car S set.

I see the white LT 20's prices are rising

[159220]

The price will probably inhibit impulse buying by those of us who don't already have a hankering after LU/LT/TfL modelling so the success (or otherwise) of the S Stock models should give a good idea of the extent of the 1:76 scale LT network spread around (or under) the nation's homes. 

 

From my own point of view, the real interest that emerges from this lies in whether the technology might be employed in future DMu/EMu models. 

I am not sure about impulse, I bought it as soon as I saw it announced. Pretty much impulse, I crave to have modern units and I jumped as soon as I saw. I would suspect there is a growing number of me's who want modern units. I agree about the technology...hopefully shall make a future Electrostar or AT200 & AT300 look fantastic!

 

 

The LT Museum has commissioned 2 reruns of the '38 Tube stock, one for the final day of 38 Stock on the ELL, destination Whitechapel, Metropolitan Line, but with mind the step posters on the glass in the doors, and the other was of the Museum's own 4 car 38 stock with the actual running numbers, but transposed between the A and D DMs (Which is still available). They also commissioned a rerun of the '59/62 Tube stock, this time for the Northern Line in unpainted Aluminium livery, sorry, can't remember the destination, but it too is still on sale in the shop.

But there is a difference in buying tube train coaches ,London Buses , taxis and buying a £280 4 car multiple unit. It's not a trainset either so not self contained, it relies on already having a layout or presumably a display cabinet. Hell of an expensive ornament though. I can't believe that casual visitors to the museum will buy this. It must be targeted at the enthusiast surely. Are there that many people really able to run an LT unit? . Can only assume that as it's a commission there is no risk for Bachmann and that LT museum are willing to take on the inventory costs of holding these until they are sold. As I've mentioned before it's a steep price for a 4 car unit in comparison to the APT which is a similar museum commission.

Looks like "tourists" don't buy the cheaper powered models either. The limited edition Class 20, prairie and pannier are still available.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

I would argue that the tourists don't buy the above items as they have not been on the LU network in years. There is a significant difference between a 1938/1962 tube train or an old loco and a brand new S stock which they would of used all week!

 

I suspect the price difference between the Locomotion APT and London Transport Museum is two fold. Firstly, Bachmann is a significantly larger company with many more overheads and thus higher prices. Secondly, Rapido sold the APT as a pre-order and no post delivery sales, on-top as a one time production run. This means cost savings in tooling, marketing, storage etc and thus allowing a cheaper price.

[kookenhaken]

My biggest issue with the real full size S Stock apart from the ride quality and lack of seats (oh yes and the really annoying automated announcer that I really wish would blow a fuse and shut up!) is the open plan design.  I am old school and believe each carriage should be separated by proper bulkheads and connecting doors so that in the event of fire/bomb/nutter you can evacuate to adjacent carriages in the first instance and there is a barrier to provide a bit of time and protection.

 

Now a major incident can take out the entire seven or eight carriage train in one easy step.

 

I was skeptical of the Overground 378s when they first appeared.  One of those late at night from Euston full of drunk idiots you couldn't get away from led me to nicknaming them the 'bad party train'.  But then that's not as bad as a young woman being stuck in a carriage on her own with some drunk pest or some other dangerous botherer.  I've come to like them.  I now use the S stock along with my bike for my commute, fortunately I commute at irregular hours so they're often quite empty.  I find the tip up seats perfect for leaning my bike against so it's not in anybody's way, I can sit opposite and keep an eye on it.  It's nice to be able to walk through and fun to be able to see down the length of the train.  The kids probably love it.

Edited June 1, 2015 by kookenhaken

[kookenhaken]

Looks like "tourists" don't buy the cheaper powered models either. The limited edition Class 20, prairie and pannier are still available.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Only one of the 20s is still available.  Could be due to production numbers but it was the one in a modern livery with a great big underground roundel on the side that sold out.

[Dunsignalling]

I am not sure about impulse, I bought it as soon as I saw it announced. Pretty much impulse, I crave to have modern units and I jumped as soon as I saw. I would suspect there is a growing number of me's who want modern units. I agree about the technology...hopefully shall make a future Electrostar or AT200 & AT300 look fantastic!

 

 

Whereas I'm generally not much interested in anything post-1968 in model form, so wasn't remotely tempted. 

 

I currently have about £2K worth of stuff on pre-order and anything else that wants to get on the shopping list in the next year or so will really have to fit my personal wish-list! 

 

The problem for unit fans (and I want a few older ones myself) is that this release, being a commission, bypasses Bachmann's stated opinion that even 3-car units are likely to come up against a perceived price-ceiling. It therefore provides no real indication of their future intentions.

 

John

[Legend]

 

I suspect the price difference between the Locomotion APT and London Transport Museum is two fold. Firstly, Bachmann is a significantly larger company with many more overheads and thus higher prices. Secondly, Rapido sold the APT as a pre-order and no post delivery sales, on-top as a one time production run. This means cost savings in tooling, marketing, storage etc and thus allowing a cheaper price.[/quote)

 

Larger companies should have the benefit of spreading their overheads among more production lines and therefore be more efficient.

 

As I understand it as this is a commission like Locomotion/Rapido the whole production run is sold toTfL

So Bachmann have no sales costs. TfL will have stockholding costs .

 

I didn't know you could get motorised EFEunits for £200

[Tase]

I had a good look at this in the LT Museum this afternoon and they do look pretty good models. I'm not certain how close the samples in their cabinet are to the finished articles but the aren't bad as they stand so it can only bode well for the future.

 

They are the finished set as I was told by Denis Lovatt on Saturday. The models are currently on board a ship heading this way apparently.

[Chris89]

The model looks great and wish Bachmann and London Transport Museum all the best off luck with it.

 

Not really my interest area, but if i had the money would get it instantly.

 

The price, isn't it more inline with Mainland Europe for model prices though? Not just MU's but Locomotives to?

Edited June 2, 2015 by Chris89