RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted November 15, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2009 2010 sq inches with 5 points seems pretty sensible, scaling it up for larger scales would probably result in less finished entries as time is the biggest limiting factor. I am hoping that I might be able to put together an entry but I won't even have time to start until June 2010 due to other layout commitments. One suggestion that I'd like to throw into the pot: The principle motive power must be something new released in 2010 (this could include kits), let's try to support our manufacturers. This may also encourage people to look at projects they'd not considered before. Oh and the entry must be a new layout! Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
modfather Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 andi - you do realise that your criteria using new rolling stock from 2010 means china clay, what with the well tanks and hydralics from Dapol? I think we need a descision by the start of december, and all entrants to put names down by xmas (or new year) i reckon 2010 square inches and up to five points sound good, including fiddle yard in this criteri, and not being fussy about what cme from where, if someone wants to enter a push along railway made from cerel packets, then so be it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajdown Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 One of the problems with "run some new stock from 2010" (presumably not exclusively because that'd just be silly) is that: a ) there are always new releases that are kept secret till release - which means we may end up with stock that fits the plan better necessitating some redesign which there isn't time for. b ) the famous 'elastic delivery dates' from some manufacturers, which means a key item we were basing the layout around doesn't actually arrive in time for judging. c ) not everyone would have sufficient funds on top of building their current layout and existing stock requirements for yet another loco, on top of the costs involved in building a new layout. Perhaps include 'must have one item of stock new from a manufacturer during 2010' but not 'principle motive power' - simply due to the cost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Or work in a new scale: my challenge layout was HO, a scale I'd never worked in before. And a damn fine job you did. It's got me thinking of going the same way for 2010. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 So..................................... any decision yet? Is it 2010 inches and 5 points? Over to you. wait out! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrislock Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I think the time's right for another layout challenge. The 10ft2 for 2010 is sound; 2010 will also be our 5th birthday but 5ft2 will be twice as tough! 10ft2 and 5 points? Is 10 sq ft ( in OO) really a "challenge"? That would be 10' long and 1' wide - easy to install a branch terminus and fiddle yard in! In N it would be a luxurious space! How about a layout in an area 10x57' scale ooach lengths long by 1x57' scale coach length wide? In N for eg that would be about 1500mm x 150mm or 750mm x 300mm -much more of a challenge! I would also stipulate that it had to be industrial, to get away from the country-branch-terminus thingy. MPD's not allowed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Is 10 sq ft ( in OO) really a "challenge"? That would be 10' long and 1' wide - easy to install a branch terminus and fiddle yard in! In N it would be a luxurious space! How about a layout in an area 10x57' scale ooach lengths long by 1x57' scale coach length wide? In N for eg that would be about 1500mm x 150mm or 750mm x 300mm -much more of a challenge! I would also stipulate that it had to be industrial, to get away from the country-branch-terminus thingy. MPD's not allowed! Well if 10'x1' is too easy for you then the challenge would be 20'x6" or 5'x2', or get the calculator out and make boards that are not a plain rectangle. More than enough challenge for someone in either 10' sq or 2010" sq IMHO. I think we do need to set the size limit soon, the 10' sq or 2010" sq or how about 20"x10' near enough the other two not to be wildly different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkitt Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 One suggestion that I'd like to throw into the pot: The principle motive power must be something new released in 2010 (this could include kits), let's try to support our manufacturers. This may also encourage people to look at projects they'd not considered before. The problem with that rule is that it would be restrictive on those with limited budgets or who prefer scratchbuilding (unless scratchbuilders can get around it by releasing a very limited edition ready to run model, which they get the only one of!) Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Please see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/3245-2010-challenge-rule-formation-topic/ to vote on your preferences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 15, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2009 Please see http://www.rmweb.co....ormation-topic/ to vote on your preferences. Whats the deadline on the poll? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Whats the deadline on the poll? Good point, give it a few days at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Have voted - so what is a point? Suggest that it a pair of switch blades, but excludes catch points. And we can extend this, as below Simple turnout -1 pair of blades - 1 point 3 way turnout - 2 pairs of blades - 2 points single slip - 2 pairs of blades - 2 points double slip - 4 pairs of blades - 4 points scissors - 4 pairs of blades - 4 points turntable, sector plate - is it fair to consider these by how many pairs of switch blades they replace and score accordingly? And are points, sector plates, turntables in fiddle yard counted in the score above? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 double slip - 4 pairs of blades - 4 points I'd say that should count as two, as a pair of turnouts back to back could offer the same operational options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Let's not get too bogged down in the points debate and over-complicate matters for now, we'll vote on that later if necessary but I'd agree with James and say a double slip is 2 and not 4. If the vote is for 5 points I'd say it would exclude off scene content anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 In a given area, isn't it easier to fit in less points? - Thus rendering the max. points rule superfluous? As a minimum number, well it'd result in some pretty congested schemes - certainly for my tastes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 ..turntable, sector plate - is it fair to consider these by how many pairs of switch blades they replace and score accordingly? So my on-scene traverser with six roads on my layout under construction is out then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGN Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 On the subject of prizes, I am reminded of a competition run a few years back on a equestrian website where I am a moderator. The Board administrator awarded fifty points to the winner, twenty five points to second place and ten points to third. When the winner asked "What can I do with these points?" she replied "nothing". Priceless! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I don't see why traversers, sector plates or turntables should count in the points list, because they are not points, they have been used in reality to avoid the need for points so I think that should stand true for a layout too IMO. Oh can we instead of having to use rtr stock on the layout can we use an ready to plonk item, ie a skaledale house, or even a cararama capri etc, for those that don't keep their stock in rtr condition? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 15, 2009 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 On the subject of prizes, I am reminded of a competition run a few years back on a equestrian website where I am a moderator. The Board administrator awarded fifty points to the winner, twenty five points to second place and ten points to third. When the winner asked "What can I do with these points?" she replied "nothing". Priceless! Perhaps we can get some rosettes made up - "Best in show" ... there should be plenty of spare rosettes going by the end of next year Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 15, 2009 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 Please see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/3245-2010-challenge-rule-formation-topic/ to vote on your preferences. Is there any way to keep that poll/thread listed at the top of the "Active Topics" so that it is actually seen by everyone (as many as possible) as unless someone keeps it busy by posting something it will drop of the 24 hr list and likely never be seen? I know quite a few members just use the "Active Topics" or "New Posts" lists to scan what is on RMWeb and never go to the individual forum lists. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Here's an idea. Don't have a space (or area) restriction but a train one. No train can be longer than five vehicles (excluding the loco). That way, if you want to do an industrial or freight-only layout, you can or if you want to do a passenger-themed layout, you can. Scale can therefore be whatever you like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I'd like to have a go at this in the new year, but I would want there to be some other criteria/theme for the layout, as to be honest, both the suggested sizes are quite large in N. If I had 2010 sq inches to play with, that's 2/3rds the size of Ring Road, and I like the idea of the challenge being just that - a challenge to do something unusual. I could of course make the boards smaller, but then what is the challenge? In N it poses so few restrictions that I could make a model of anything. Putting a theme or other restriction on it makes the change from an open layout competition to a challenge in my view. Should it be for example, 2010 sq inches along a particular theme, or the layout must contain/exclude a certain feature (e.g. no station), or must be inspired by the title of the challenge (5th birthday, 2010, or something else etc). Give me a maximum space and the theme/word to go think about, and there's the challenge - design and build a layout that fits and can be compared to how the other entrants respond to the theme. In N the theme is more important than the size (unless you make it REALLY small! For example: 2010 Challenge - the year of speed, or 2010 - Freight Only...that kind of thing David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 To be honest I think the space and the relative amount or lack thereof is variable depending on how you work and/or think. For me 2010 sq in, and more so, 5 points, provides the challenge because of what I like to model. I can't afford to spend money in a new direction, so to come up with a plan that will fit the space, my stock, and my interests whilst still complying with contest rules is the real challenge. To be honest, with modern stuff, it's much harder to justify a setting with 2 or 3 wagons being pottered around by a shunter, than it is a longer rake being split and shunted - which is perhaps where an N option could really triumph over the bigger scales in this - being able to offer a bit more of a "real railway" atmosphere, and showcase the train in the landscape, rather than 3 wagons and a loco on a plank. Right, back to X factor cheers jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54Strat Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I'd like to have a go at this in the new year, but I would want there to be some other criteria/theme for the layout, as to be honest, both the suggested sizes are quite large in N. If I had 2010 sq inches to play with, that's 2/3rds the size of Ring Road, and I like the idea of the challenge being just that - a challenge to do something unusual. I could of course make the boards smaller, but then what is the challenge? In N it poses so few restrictions that I could make a model of anything. David Totally agree, where's the challenge in this? The larger gauges have perhaps the luxury of greater constraints, which is a bit unfair to the smaller scales. In the first RMweb challenge, I was able to complete an N gauge entry in a quarter of the area of the challenge rules, so I was under the same constraints as the 4mm entries. One idea, maybe we could have a fixed track plan where the challenge would be the context and the scenic treatment? Could we keep it as simple and as cheap as possible? We could also keep them shorter to complete, a couple of months maybe? But the emphasis would always be to challenge ourselves into new areas and put us out of our comfort zone. With regard to our 5yr milestone, how about a series of 5 challenges, one every two months? Maybe we could run this concurrently with the layout competition / challenge B)? To be honest I think the space and the relative amount or lack thereof is variable depending on how you work and/or think. For me 2010 sq in, and more so, 5 points, provides the challenge because of what I like to model. I can't afford to spend money in a new direction, so to come up with a plan that will fit the space, my stock, and my interests whilst still complying with contest rules is the real challenge.... cheers jo For you it's a challenge, which after all is what this is about, but it's all a bit subjective. The real challenge is making it a challenge for everyone. B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redkiterail Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 How about two challanges One layout in 10square feet or 2010 square inches Two design and or build a layout with control and rolling stock for ??500 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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