Dapol 08

[gismorail]

I don't care what some people have said about this 08 model I reckon it's ok. It's just a shame that Dapol have not given some sort of feed back to comments since Telford 

[br2975]

I was thinking of acquiring a Dapol 08 for a 'side project' .............

.

Don't think I will now.

.

You see it's 7mm scale, 32mm gauge, which by my reckoning works out at 44.8".............about 3.75" under scale gauge.

.

It should be 32.98mm gauge.

 

Amazing how none of the rivet counters bleating on here about minor errors by Dapol failed to noticed such a glaring error.

.

Or, are some experts prepared to accept some errors, yet preach to threads like this about other errors.

.

I can't see how you can take liberties with your own modelling, and then criticise a supplier for what you consider to be their shortcomings.

Edited September 13, 2016 by br2975

[101]

101

 

I think that you were right the first time,in that only the first 266 had long hinges.

 

 

Brian.

 

 

There were more built with the earlier doors (over 300 I think)

But only 266 survived into TOPS hence 08266 is the cut off point before the pressed doors/short hinges.

[south_tyne]

PS - I contacted Dapol last week to clarify which liveries/numbers would be in the initial batch and it is those on Tower website:

• D3043 – Green Late Crest – Hither Green (54) Ashford Chart Leacon (55) Hither Green (64) Eastleigh (72) Swindon (73) Eastleigh (75) W/D (82)
• 13282 – Green Early Crest – Motherwell (56) Hamilton West (63) Thornaby (75) W/D (81)
• D3045 – Blue – Hither Green (54) Ashford Chart Leacon (55) Feltham (62) Eastleigh (68) W/D (72)
• D3219 – Green Late Crest – Norwood Jct (55) Brighton (55) Eastleigh (70) W/D (79)
• 13240 – Black Early Crest – York (56) Holbeck (72) W/D (85)
• 08202 – Blue – Hither Green (56) Norwood Jct (62) Feltham (62) Eastleigh (69) W/D (89)

Just in case anyone is interested, quite a while ago I did some digging as to where the locos in the first release were based...

 

I've quoted above (as long as the numbers haven't changed as I must be honest I havent double checked!!)

 

Hopefully of use to someone

[Osgood]

What errors?

 

Could someone summarise exactly what errors do exist, please?  Too much to wade through on here now., but most like rear conduit have been resolved?

 

It would be really helpful (especially to those of us with little knowledge of the real thing) if any stated error - like "doors too wide"- could be accompanied by some evidence - if not it becomes just another 'observation', most of which prove in time to be unfounded.

 

At least it would allow the fair and reasoned challenging of any criticism - for example some 'errors against published drawings' prove to be errors in the drawings, not the model.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Osgood

[No Decorum]

Don't think I will now.

.

You see it's 7mm scale, 32mm gauge, which by my reckoning works out at 44.8".............about 3.75" under scale gauge.

Don’t think I shall either. 3' 8.8" gauge?

[Hal Nail]

What errors?

 

Could someone summarise exactly what errors do exist, please? Too much to wade through on here now., but most like rear conduit have been resolved?

 

It would be really helpful (especially to those of us with little knowledge of the real thing) if any stated error - like "doors too wide"- could be accompanied by some evidence - if not it becomes just another 'observation', most of which prove in time to be unfounded.

 

At least it would allow the fair and reasoned challenging of any criticism - for example some 'errors against published drawings' prove to be errors in the drawings, not the model.

I think it is that the blue versions have a black cab roof - feeling was they are usually blue albeit so dirty they look black, and the green wasp stripe variants have a black bonnet top - again not wrong as such but unusual.

 

So for a 'bog standard' example of either you would have to repaint part and therefore colour match.

 

Before I get shot down I'm summarising what I remember and not complaining!

[leopardml2341]

 

I can't see how you can take liberties with your own modelling, and then criticise a supplier for what you consider to be their shortcomings.

 

That could be a new definition of the phrase 'expert modeller'

[CloggyDog]

Bonnet hinges - I have the following builds having the long, rivetted hinges:

 

D3000-59 (Derby), D3060-81 (Darlington), D3082-126 (Dby), D3127-136 (D'ton), D3137-3216 (Dby), D3217-3244 (D'ton), D3245-97 (Dby), D3298-336 (D'ton), D3454-72 (D'ton)

 

Now, that's all types of 350hp DE 0-6-0s, including the non-EE 6KT-powered machines, but gives a total of 356 with the long/rivetted hinges.

 

Taking just 'proper' 08s, in TOPS terms that's 08001-266/369-87*

 

Don't forget that a number of 350s were withdrawn before TOPS came in, but the surviving EE6KTs were renumbered in a straight sequence from 08001 (D3004) upwards with no gaps, hence you get D3091 = 08076 then D3102 = 08077 (the 10 in between were EE6KTs, but had no train brakes, hence their early withdrawn dates (May/Oct 1972) - other similar gaps occur around the Crossley/Lister-Blackstone-engined locos (so D3116 = 08091, then D3127 = 08092 and D3136 = 08101, then D3167 = 08102), plus the first 4 snowplough conversions and other odd early withdrawls.

 

Never mind the minefield of exhauster boxes...

Edited September 14, 2016 by CloggyDeux

[hmrspaul]

I think it is that the blue versions have a black cab roof - feeling was they are usually blue albeit so dirty they look black, and the green wasp stripe variants have a black bonnet top - again not wrong as such but unusual.

 

So for a 'bog standard' example of either you would have to repaint part and therefore colour match.

 

Before I get shot down I'm summarising what I remember and not complaining!

I have several that have either very dark grey or black roof to the cab. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/br0809/e2bc6ab3a but this doesn't have the correct bonnet hinges. and the whole top similarly dark grey http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/br0809/e2cb6a13e

 

 

Bonnet hinges - I have the following builds having the long, rivetted hinges:

 

D3000-59 (Derby), D3060-81 (Darlington), D3082-126 (Dby), D3127-136 (D'ton), D3137-3216 (Dby), D3217-3244 (D'ton), D3245-97 (Dby), D3298-336 (D'ton), D3454-72 (D'ton)

 

Now, that's all types of 350hp DE 0-6-0s, including the non-EE 6KT-powered machines, but gives a total of 356 with the long/rivetted hinges.

 

Taking just 'proper' 08s, in TOPS terms that's 08001-266/369-87*

 

Don't forget that a number of 350s were withdrawn before TOPS came in, but the surviving EE6KTs were renumbered in a straight sequence from 08001 (D3004) upwards with no gaps, hence you get D3091 = 08076 then D3102 = 08077 (the 10 in between were EE6KTs, but had no train brakes, hence their early withdrawn dates (May/Oct 1972) - other similar gaps occur around the Crossley/Lister-Blackstone-engined locos (so D3116 = 08091, then D3127 = 08092 and D3136 = 08101, then D3167 = 08102), plus the first 4 snowplough conversions and other odd early withdrawls.

 

Never mind the minefield of exhauster boxes...

... and the earlier suggestion ignored that some survived in private use 08113, 08133, Sheerness no 2, 08216   http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/br0809

 

Paul

[Osgood]

Black or blue……           https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/4969902857/in/album-72157624412512468/

 

Interesting cab door variation too.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Osgood

[Ressaldar]

Black or blue……           https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/4969902857/in/album-72157624412512468/

 

Interesting cab door variation too.

 

not to mention the steps!

 

cheers

 

Mike

[Pannier Tank]

Black or blue……           https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/4969902857/in/album-72157624412512468/

 

Interesting cab door variation too.

 

Also shows the Running Plate variations.

 

Up to 08698 (D3865) the running plate had a lip at the top and a fillet that projects downwards at the rear end of the running plate to the

buffer beam, 08699 (D3866) onwards did not have either feature, the running plates were plain and had no fillet to the rear buffer beam.

[Captain Kernow]

I was thinking of acquiring a Dapol 08 for a 'side project' .............

.

Don't think I will now.

.

You see it's 7mm scale, 32mm gauge, which by my reckoning works out at 44.8".............about 3.75" under scale gauge.

.

It should be 32.98mm gauge.

 

 

You're kidding?!

 

I thought this was meant to be a P4 loco!

 

Oh no, I'm really upset now.

 

It's all gone Milford Haven.

[Paul W]

After reading all of this thread from page 1 to here over a few hours I have come up with a practical solution, perhaps, for most of the afore mentioned potential problems with the Dapol 08 which follows here;-

 

 

Like it  =  Buy it

 

Don't like it  =  Don't buy it.

 

Or is this being too simplistic. 

 

Just a thought.

[edcayton]

I think the problem is that many people (myself included) have pre-ordered one to make sure of getting one (and possibly give Dapol an idea of how many to produce) making various assumptions which have turned out to be incorrect.

 

Right or wrong we are not going to get what we wanted. So our options would appear to be:

 

1) Cancel the order leaving retailers wit a large stock of hard-to-sell models. This may result in some bargains for the vultures, but won't encourage further rtr 0 gauge or

 

2) Start hacking/re-painting a (hopefully excellent) model which has cost the thick end of £200. I know this is a bargain, but it is still a lot of money to me.

 

btw in any case I can't find any green/stripes (preferably early crest but not too bothered) so perhaps as Mum was keen on saying "We'll have to do without". I'm 62 and in poor health, and my kids would rather inherit money than more toy  trains.

 

Ed

[Osgood]

Looks to be a useful site for listing build /numbering / disposal:      http://www.railway-centre.com/uploads/7/2/2/3/7223531/class_08-13_fleet_list.pdf

[Tove]

 

 

btw in any case I can't find any green/stripes (preferably early crest but not too bothered)

 

Ed

 

Ed,there`s a prototype for everthing.........

 

Black/stripes & early crest;

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ron_h/4752942656/in/photolist-pJRuey-3Y85N1-7UoLvM-7UM5xL-3LS4j7-CvnVtU-f4sBHt-BrTmDf-87MYsu-5hnyZX-oBops6-p5DtoT-7f2Q7D-nnQ7WQ-o2mPT9-fFvk3U-bkJbEk-Gg8VJx-5t89MS-cQNi9J-8gCxKx-8f15gb-fberu1-pY7yAx-oUewx3-pq6Vm8-bzW4SA-4BowyE-rMfLZG-6DZgpZ-2bJDaF-KURVPn-KpfXYB-nQoDfQ-jgCdGx-3EmmAf

 

Green/stripes & early crest...well almost. Black bonnet door with crest from above, on 08010!;

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ron_h/4671366312/in/photolist-87MYsu-9VB6rQ-F3J5dJ-dK1ich-ec9Gu1-AqVvAt-qbuXPk-aqbVsj-ei9R1q-r3tWAz-a4NF7h-oFPuTq-9uVbdJ-npa5rv-dwxk3W-dgpYdB-AuL1Wb-h7tJ2F-eeQ3vo-dfSXRE-9ZcrVw-oFQcA7-r3qMEW-oncxWQ-aQTCd8-ojmzxF-fwq5ZE-6GJXo8-aixUtq-a7SH8R-pjEN9T-dpeGsi-nkpqMo-4y3JX7-ogpLmL-9DQ3mR-vQpvkG-fyEqeQ-qoMWcp-ikLiXD-zdKcWf-bqBrxu-98erN8-oFP27z-rc6Tcu-nJQYh9-a9TrX4-mjj5H7-8DpPzX-oVGeXG

 

And finally,Green/stripes & early crest;

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ron_h/5438883611/in/photolist-avLDYf-a6tsX6-9hENSs-eHUqVw-avLE5s-eHNoZz-eHNqx8-8BRwdM-8hU2pq-avHZSK-afKM1z-8FKJT8-eHUBVs-CENFfR-8y3zXk-9se7iu-8yJaSQ-avHZYZ-eHNwdZ-b9EmJ4-9Y5JWd-9hBGBn-oDheAe-eeiEvV-eeiDn4-8g1CMt-eeiKoP-eHNxE4-9Y5K6J-eHMYrV-eeiATg-fjFaUy-afNx1U-eeizU4-afhXMU-a6wjNw-eepsUS-eHU43m-eHUfRJ-eeiLcP-9se7sE-997DZh-8gscJU-eHNa1B-eHUJju-fjqZpP-eeiAnF-eeptvo-eHNhBT-eepr2y

 

Hope these are of some help......

 

Brian.

[Osgood]

On a lot of photos the upper light on rear of cab is absent, and no conduit (so high light fed from lower lights?).

Also appears to be no horizontal conduit between lower lights in some shots.

 

Am I right in thinking from a certain point in time the use of high lamps was discontinued?  Something to do with electrification and risk of electrocution?

So presumably any loco being shopped for overhaul after this date would have the light removed?

 

Can anyone advise when this changeover occured?

[PatB]

I think the problem is that many people (myself included) have pre-ordered one to make sure of getting one (and possibly give Dapol an idea of how many to produce) making various assumptions which have turned out to be incorrect.

 

Right or wrong we are not going to get what we wanted. So our options would appear to be:

 

1) Cancel the order leaving retailers wit a large stock of hard-to-sell models. This may result in some bargains for the vultures, but won't encourage further rtr 0 gauge or

 

2) Start hacking/re-painting a (hopefully excellent) model which has cost the thick end of £200. I know this is a bargain, but it is still a lot of money to me.

 

btw in any case I can't find any green/stripes (preferably early crest but not too bothered) so perhaps as Mum was keen on saying "We'll have to do without". I'm 62 and in poor health, and my kids would rather inherit money than more toy trains.

 

Ed

There's always Option 3) accept the (actually fairly minor in the greater scheme of things, even if the worst predictions come to be) and enjoy playing trains with something plausibly close to looking like an 08.

 

After all, any practically achievable 7mm layout is inevitably going to include compromises that make a (allegedly) incorrect colour on the rad surround or roof of a loco look like pretty small beer.

Edited September 16, 2016 by PatB

[edcayton]

I started dabbling in 7mm to try to avoid too many compromises (and because of clumsy fingers/failing eyesight!).

 

Ed

[south_tyne]

...enjoy playing trains...

Well said that man! This is a hobby for enjoyment, not life and death. Ultimately we're playing with toys for fun and we will all 'pay our money and make our choice'!

[PatB]

I started dabbling in 7mm to try to avoid too many compromises (and because of clumsy fingers/failing eyesight!).

 

Ed

 

Which is fair enough, and I wouldn't deride you, or anyone else, for that. However, unless you're (this being a general "you" rather than Ed specifically) modelling an actual location at a specific point in time (I can't remember/don't know if that's what you're doing), if what you're after is an 08 to look 08ish while it shuffles some wagons around, how much does it really matter if the livery is exactly correct, as long as it's plausible?

 

That is not to say that Dapol shouldn't get it right, or that they shouldn't respond appropriately to reasonable feedback and comment, but to go off the handle like some upthread, and cancel orders that have been in place for years (and, no, I'm not terribly impressed by the 4.5 years between first becoming aware of the model and it's imminent release either) on the strength of bits of it not being the right colour for the particular loco number (but being colours that the equivalent bits of other locos can be shown to have been, so the thing still looks like an 08 even if not that 08)? Come on. Really?

 

I know standards in the hobby are constanatly rising, and my own have always been lower than some, but have we really reached the point where so many cannot accept/overlook/put up with anything less than total perfection?

[BG John]

I know standards in the hobby are constanatly rising, and my own have always been lower than some, but have we really reached the point where so many cannot accept/overlook/put up with anything less than total perfection?

The wheels are over scale, and too close together. I'm glad I didn't order one .

[CME and Bottlewasher]

As promised here is further info that has come to light;-

 

1) Some retailers are STILL advertising un-numbered versions for sale = more confusion?;

 

2) A photo of 08202 at Eastleigh (circa 1975) shows yellow radiator (light in colour as only a B&W photo) chevrons etc but NOT black radiator, surrounds etc;

 

http://flickrhivemind.net/blackmagic.cgi?id=22214929376&url=http%3A%2F%2Fflickrhivemind.net%2FTags%2F08202%2FInteresting%3Fsearch_type%3DTags%26textinput%3D08202%26photo_type%3D250%26method%3DGET%26noform%3Dt%26sort%3DInterestingness%23pic22214929376&user=&flickrurl=http://www.flickr.com/photos/31890193@N08/22214929376

 

3) Otherwise the livery appears fairly accurate - although in photos I cannot be sure if the roof is weathered or black (the above mentioned photo implies black as the loco is looking quite clean - but not immaculate?);

 

4) It would be possible, from photographic evidence, to renumber 08202 into 08195 et al with a few tweaks (eg. depending on year modelled red rods may need repainting to yellow etc etc) - both locos are preserved (although I did note that the rear electric light trunking appears incorrect on the Dapol Pre-pro model for both prototypes);

 

5) Dapol '......WONT be producing the 08 variants with small/internal engine compartment door hinges, '.....which will make modelling of those members of the class with those types of doors/hinges ie certain variations - the liveries for EWS versions et al -problematic....' (in précis and not verbatim via one of my friends and his trade contacts). The caveat is; 'although with the awful communications this fact may not be cast in stone' (in précis and not verbatim).

 

Whilst I have received a lot of support for my comments (on this Thread and elsewhere) from various quarters (for which I am grateful - thank you) and I have endeavoured to be as accurate as possible with my information re. the model, the prototype and Dapol et al and thus truthful, such approaches do not appear to be welcomed by approx 50% of Posters here, so I have, since, two days ago, 'unfollowed' the Thread. Whilst I never walk away from a challenge, life is too short to deal with those, who become so personal, acerbic and, with some, so vindictive over what is effectively a pile of plastic, wires and diecast castings - when those, such as I, endeavour to be factual and always tell the truth, based on facts ('I believe' is NOT the same as 'I know'). It seems to be that certain manufacturers and models generate an unfathomably misguided loyalty and religious like fervour/following whereby divisions between modellers become the focus rather than the model itself (or indeed the manufacturer). IMHO none of us should be divided by misguided 'loyalty' to a manufacturer - it seems though that my comments have challenged some's belief systems when it comes to certain models - IMHO that's madness, its just a glorified toy, people before models and business! I would refer you all, though, to Chris Leigh's comments in MR 225 (Sept 2016) page 145 under the heading; BACKSCENE, as this touches on some of the psychology of our model-making etc. very insightful I thought and a slant I have noted myself. May I remind everyone this Thread would NOT need to exist if, in the first instance, Dapol could communicate effectively about their output, that's NOT of my making or the OP's, yet I seem to have come in for flak after pointing out certain facts and undeclared business arrangements/relationships - its strange how throughout time, those that tell the truth get lambasted and targeted. The 'pack mentality' has driven away some truly great modellers, writers, experts and manufacturers (I do not include myself in that exulted group of past masters) away from such forums = a great loss.

 

I know that Dapol follow this Thread, yet still they sit on their hands in regard to effective communications etc. Why? Contempt? Arrogance? Ego? 

 

I have nothing against Dapol per se and view their models, as with other manufacturers' output, on a model by model basis in terms of merits and accuracy, those that know me, know that I am a friendly and amiable fellow and my Posts often reflect such. It does puzzle me that, after many years in business, whereby excellence was required in terms of the product, service and communications etc (whether that be when running a family business, working for blue-chips or the public sector, consulting etc), that the likes of Dapol, with, what have been, up until, arguably the Terrier, in 7mm, poorly researched, poorly produced (accuracy and detail) and poorly communicated models that they succeed in selling so many - this concept would be alien to most students of business. Perhaps Dapol could bottle and sell it as many companies would - if they could get away with it - want to do the same I fear.

 

I can confirm that neither myself or the others that have written, telephoned or emailed Dapol have had a reply - this has been Dapol's approach for many years, fact. Another fact is that approaches made by those that I know of, including myself, have been polite, brief and specific, yet never has a reply been received.

 

I Post the above so as to honour the promise that I made earlier.

 

If one is not happy with the proposed Dapol 08, one can change the order for a different livery/version (as it stands the Dapol 08 looks to be a very good model) or seek out the MMP or JLTRT versions both of which can be made into superbly accurate models of most of the variants between them. One pays their money and thus makes their choice.

 

Happy modelling everyone!

 

ATVB

 

CME

Edited September 16, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher