Popular Post Andrew P Posted December 22, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 22, 2017 (edited) Hi All, I thought I'd start this Topic for anyone who would like to talk about, discuss or share with others, Past and Current Hobbies away from Railways, real or Model. I'll kick it off with a little about me and my past and current Hobbies. At 16 I joined the Waterlooville Motor Cycle Club in Hampshire, it's main interest was Motor Cycle Trials and Scrambles, (as it was called back then, it's now Moto Cross). At 19 I was elected onto the Committee as Assistant Social Sec, organising Darts Matches, Skittles, and Snooker Matches, within the the Club, and also against other Local Clubs. I served several posts during the 14 years I was on Committee, inc Racing Sec etc organising the famous Ken Hall Trophy Moto Cross at Petersfield in Hampshire. I rode in Trials and Moto Cross until I was about 32, then after a few injuries decided to call Motor Cycles a day. Here's a couple of pics of me, firstly at 21 with a Ex Works 250 CZ in my Parents Garden in Cowplain, Hampshire. And at Canada Heights, Swanley, Kent, on my 250 Cheney CZ I built myself. And playing about in my Garden at age 27 on my new Sammy Miller 200 Honda Trial Bike. And at Weavers Down, Bordon, Hants. My next Hobby was and has been since the age of 12, Playing Guitar, at the ripe old age of 40 (1990) I met up with fellow R M Webber George T, and we formed a Shadows Tribute Band, Stratergy, TBH it was never a success, so we changed it to the G-Tap Blues Band and just really enjoyed ourselves., Here's a pic of us at rehearsals. When George moved away to Manchester, I met a couple of other Guys and we formed a 60's Tribute Band, The Silvertones, where we toured the South Coast playing most weekends for about 15 years. I had switched from Lead guitar to Bass now and so here's some pics from back then. And my favourite Bass Rig, a Peavey Head and Carvin Cabs, with my P Bass. In Oct 2005 I moved to Derbyshire, and unable to find a suitably Band I decided to sell up and just concentrate on my Model Railways, that I had been doing in the background since 1977. As well as Exhibiting Layouts, I also had many articles published in Magazines, but as this thread is NOT about Railways, so that's all I have to say on that here. And so what am I doing NOW? I started to do some more Painting and over the last year or two and I've really got into it much more, concentrating more on Acrylics now, and recently won 1st prize in the Tan yr Hall Art Gallery at Bala, for their Christmas Painting Competition, it had to relate to Bala, and so here is the Painting I won with of Llyn Tegid / Bala Lake and the Arun Mountain in the background And some of my other Paintings and Pen and Ink Drawings. So that's my Hobbies, they have been fun, and I can look back and say, YES I did that. So Guys and Gals, PLEASE SHARE your Hobbies and Stories that go with them, Past and Present, and keep it ongoing with new Tales and Pics. Edited December 30, 2017 by Andrew P 43 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzer Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 (edited) Hi, Andy, My own interests have in many ways parallelled your own. Steam locomotives have always been the love of of my life for as long as I can remember, probably from about the time I started school, after that came motorcycles, music and history. I spent my early years in a house about 100 yards away from what was then the old West Ham Speedwáy Stadium and was taken there even before I went to school. I was indoctrinated into two wheeled machines. Like you I started playing guitar at the age of about 14 or 15 but once I had a driving licence motorbikes dominated my whole life and the guitar was forgotten. It was a natural progression to move on to trials and scrambles, which I must have been doing about the same time as you. Did you ever ride on the Army land at Long Valley, Aldershot, which was about the furthest South West I ever went from Essex ? Eventually a badly broken leg put me out of racing for a while aged 25 and married life then intervened, although not before I won the second of my Special First Class Awards in the ACU National Rally. With Motorbikes gone, steam locos sadly replaced by the unmentionable smelly blue things, at the age of about 28 I suddenly had this inexplicable urge to find out how society got to the point it Is now and reading railway and other history was my dominant spare time interest. These days with my family grown up things have gone pretty much full circle and now making up for lost time. The motorbikes have gone forever ( too old and crocked to go racing anymore) but I retain an interest by being on the trackstaff for the Lakeside Hammers Speedwáy team, usually acting as time keeper and incident recorder or stand in Pit Marshall. I have picked up the guitar again and occasionally play with a few mates. Inspired by the wonderful layouts on RM Web I have started to build a 13ft+ fiddle yard BLT in the garage which I love doing, and as for the Steam engines, well, it's visits to the Bluebell Railway two or three times a year, plus over the last 13 years a number of driver experiences ( next one on Romney Hythe and Dymchurch Railway in February) So, all in all I had hobbies I've absolutely loved, and wouldn't have changed them for the world, and for the most part had a job I enjoyed investigating industrial accidents. ( If someone can explain how to upload, if that's the word, photographs I'll put a few of my trials and scrambles pictures up) Edited December 23, 2017 by jazzer 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 (edited) Hi, Andy, My own interests have in many ways parallelled your own. Steam locomotives have always been the love of of my life for as long as I can remember, probably from about the time I started school, after that came motorcycles, music and history. I spent my early years in a house about 100 yards away from what was then the old West Ham Speedwáy Stadium and was taken there even before I went to school. I was indoctrinated into two wheeled machines. Like you I started playing guitar at the age of about 14 or 15 but once I had a driving licence motorbikes dominated my whole life and the guitar was forgotten. It was a natural progression to move on to trials and scrambles, which I must have been doing about the same time as you. Did you ever ride on the Army land at Long Valley, Aldershot, which was about the furthest South West I ever went from Essex ? Eventually a badly broken leg put me out of racing for a while aged 25 and married life then intervened, although not before I won the second of my Special First Class Awards in the ACU National Rally. With Motorbikes gone, steam locos sadly replaced by the unmentionable smelly blue things, at the age of about 28 I suddenly had this inexplicable urge to find out how society got to the point it Is now and reading railway and other history was my dominant spare time interest. These days with my family grown up things have gone pretty much full circle and now making up for lost time. The motorbikes have gone forever ( too old and crocked to go racing anymore) but I retain an interest by being on the trackstaff for the Lakeside Hammers Speedwáy team, usually acting as time keeper and incident recorder or stand in Pit Marshall. I have picked up the guitar again and occasionally play with a few mates. Inspired by the wonderful layouts on RM Web I have started to build a 13ft+ fiddle yard BLT in the garage which I love doing, and as for the Steam engines, well, it's visits to the Bluebell Railway two or three times a year, plus over the last 13 years a number of driver experiences ( next one on Romney Hythe and Dymchurch Railway in February) So, all in all I had hobbies I've absolutely loved, and wouldn't have changed them for the world, and for the most part had a job I enjoyed investigating industrial accidents. ( If someone can explain how to upload, if that's the word, photographs I'll put a few of my trials and scrambles pictures up) Hi Jazzer, Great Post, and thanks for getting involved. I rode at Long Valley quite a bit as it was a Local one for me. When I lived in Plymouth we lived opposite the Speedway / Stockcar / Greyhound Stadium, and could just see the back strait from the Bedroom Window, I was about 4 then so don't remember a lot, other than the sound on Stockcar and Speedway nights. I forgot to say that I was Plane Spotting at Heatrow and the Local Fairoaks Airfield when I was about 9 to 11 so Missed Steam / Railways completely until 1977 / Blue Boxes. I'm looking forward to your pics later. Edited December 23, 2017 by Andrew P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzer Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Forgot to mention being a life long fan of Chris Barbers Jazz Band. I was about 13 when I heard a record of his for the first time and it totally blew me away, More than 50 years later my musical tastes have become many and varied, but the Chris Barber Band has always been No 1 for me. Maybe we can hear what other musical tastes our fellow modellers follow? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Maybe we can hear what other musical tastes our fellow modellers follow? I have a few other interests apart from railways (steam only), as my avatar shows 2, also have a musical taste for blues, and blues rock. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jeff Smith Posted December 23, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2017 Very tempting to jump in here, no motorcycles though except the Honda C100 and BSA C15 that I owned in my late teens for transportation. Haven't driven one for 45 years now.....moved on to cars via a Reliant driven on my motorcycle licence. An apprenticeship with Rolls-Royce, a young family and working in Germany really consumed my 20's with my only hobbies, if you can call them such, were reading science fiction and an interest in all matters aviation. Model aircraft were dabbled with but most crashed or gathered dust until being thrown out. I did some art at school and then picked it up again more seriously after moving to the US in 1988. I never really got along with oils - take too long to dry - or watercolours - too messy. But straight from the tube acrylics on canvas or canvas board is something I have developed over the years and since retiring in September has taken as much if not more of my time than model railways. I've had a few commissions and expect more but won't rely on it as a steady line of income as I tend to be a bit choosy about the subject matter. I have done many of the female form as it is an alluring subject but won't post any here except one I think will not upset anyone as it is true art - here's a few other subjects with backstories:- The British Meteor and German ME262 never actually met in air to air combat as far as is known so I decided to paint such an encounter. In reality the Meteors were not allowed to fly over enemy territory for fear of being shot down and the Germans gaining from the superior materials used in the engines - a bit ironic as the German axial flow engine design was more advanced than the British radial flow but the German materials were not as robust so the engines had a relatively short life. Towards the end of the war the German ME262s were often operated from Autobahns as the airfields had been bombed by the Allies. To get the pictures right I made a couple of 1/72 models and photographed them from various angles. The Autobahn scene was based on a photo taken by the Allies of aircraft parked in the trees next to the road. Both 12" x 24" on canvas. Now here's Apollo 17 leaving the Moon - perhaps one day soon we'll get back there...! This was done for my Son. 16" x 20" on canvas A recent one for my Grandson who like his Father is into space matters and villains. 18 "x 24" on canvas board Now a landscape from a picture I took of Wick Ferry in Hampshire in about 1970. 16" x 20" on canvas Here's a fox I did for a friend's house. 12" x 16" on canvas Finally for now, I think I can claim that this painting is in the best possible artistic taste but nevertheless is of the female form albeit in marble. This is one of many versions of the classic Greek Three Graces - this particular statuette is in the Victoria and Albert Museum. 16" x 20" on canvas. 25 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted December 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2017 What a multitalented crew! Art in particular is wonderful - but then are all model railways an art form? So I have gone through motorbikes - Started with a Bianchi 75 at 16 (673 CFK) which I sold to a Mr Jones from that unpronounceable town in Mid Wales ... registration still seems to be live! - then a Suzuki B100P, Honda CD175, Honda CB250 and Suzuki GT380 .... then a break followed by a Honda 50, Suzuki GT 250, another GT380 and then up to date with a Yamaha Fazer 600 and 2 Fazer 1000s - wonderful bikes! But main distraction has been fluff chucking - fly fishing. Grandfather fished, so did Dad and so does my oldest son James. Tie my own flies and the fish seem to like them....some photos from a typical excursion are here... https://www.fishingpassport.co.uk/fishing/irfon-and-ithon/bryn-ithon#&gid=1&pid=8 Seems to be a dying art - probably not PC any more, rather like me... Phil 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 I have a few other interests apart from railways (steam only), as my avatar shows 2, also have a musical taste for blues, and blues rock. I have to say, Blues and Blues Rock to Hard Rock is my thing, but I can listen to almost anything from The Beatles to Michael Jackson, and Pink Floyd to ZZ top. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 (edited) Very tempting to jump in here, no motorcycles though except the Honda C100 and BSA C15 that I owned in my late teens for transportation. Haven't driven one for 45 years now.....moved on to cars via a Reliant driven on my motorcycle licence. An apprenticeship with Rolls-Royce, a young family and working in Germany really consumed my 20's with my only hobbies, if you can call them such, were reading science fiction and an interest in all matters aviation. Model aircraft were dabbled with but most crashed or gathered dust until being thrown out. I did some art at school and then picked it up again more seriously after moving to the US in 1988. I never really got along with oils - take too long to dry - or watercolours - too messy. But straight from the tube acrylics on canvas or canvas board is something I have developed over the years and since retiring in September has taken as much if not more of my time than model railways. I've had a few commissions and expect more but won't rely on it as a steady line of income as I tend to be a bit choosy about the subject matter. I have done many of the female form as it is an alluring subject but won't post any here except one I think will not upset anyone as it is true art - here's a few other subjects with backstories:- The British Meteor and German ME262 never actually met in air to air combat as far as is known so I decided to paint such an encounter. In reality the Meteors were not allowed to fly over enemy territory for fear of being shot down and the Germans gaining from the superior materials used in the engines - a bit ironic as the German axial flow engine design was more advanced than the British radial flow but the German materials were not as robust so the engines had a relatively short life. Towards the end of the war the German ME262s were often operated from Autobahns as the airfields had been bombed by the Allies. To get the pictures right I made a couple of 1/72 models and photographed them from various angles. The Autobahn scene was based on a photo taken by the Allies of aircraft parked in the trees next to the road. Both 12" x 24" on canvas. Meteor F3.jpgME 262.jpg Now here's Apollo 17 leaving the Moon - perhaps one day soon we'll get back there...! This was done for my Son. 16" x 20" on canvas Apollo 17.jpg A recent one for my Grandson who like his Father is into space matters and villains. 18 "x 24" on canvas board Darth Vader.JPG Now a landscape from a picture I took of Wick Ferry in Hampshire in about 1970. 16" x 20" on canvas Wick Ferry.JPG Here's a fox I did for a friend's house. 12" x 16" on canvas Fox_NF.jpg Finally for now, I think I can claim that this painting is in the best possible artistic taste but nevertheless is of the female form albeit in marble. This is one of many versions of the classic Greek Three Graces - this particular statuette is in the Victoria and Albert Museum. 16" x 20" on canvas. ThreeGracesFL.jpg Fantastic post and Pics Jeff, I love that Marble pic, you have captured the look of it, well done young Sir. Edited December 23, 2017 by Andrew P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 What a multitalented crew! Art in particular is wonderful - but then are all model railways an art form? So I have gone through motorbikes - Started with a Bianchi 75 at 16 (673 CFK) which I sold to a Mr Jones from that unpronounceable town in Mid Wales ... registration still seems to be live! - then a Suzuki B100P, Honda CD175, Honda CB250 and Suzuki GT380 .... then a break followed by a Honda 50, Suzuki GT 250, another GT380 and then up to date with a Yamaha Fazer 600 and 2 Fazer 1000s - wonderful bikes! But main distraction has been fluff chucking - fly fishing. Grandfather fished, so did Dad and so does my oldest son James. Tie my own flies and the fish seem to like them....some photos from a typical excursion are here... https://www.fishingpassport.co.uk/fishing/irfon-and-ithon/bryn-ithon#&gid=1&pid=8 Seems to be a dying art - probably not PC any more, rather like me... Phil Just the sort of thing I was hoping for Phil, and a talent for making Flies is a dying art. When we lived in Buckfast, Devon, our neighbour was a Welshman, Omri Thomas who had a Fly making business. Many Modellers must have other interest and talents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Music, or more precisely, electric organs. We have an old Conn which still sounds good in spite of its age which is about 30 years old. Although I learned as a kid, I don't use music now; you hum it - I play it! Sadly such self entertainment is no more; there are no repair centres for these instruments, as there are fewer and fewer piano tuners, so we hope they last a bit longer yet. Its sad to see all these lovely instruments go to the tip but I guess that's where my trains will end up. Merry Christmas Brian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 Music, or more precisely, electric organs. We have an old Conn which still sounds good in spite of its age which is about 30 years old. Although I learned as a kid, I don't use music now; you hum it - I play it! Sadly such self entertainment is no more; there are no repair centres for these instruments, as there are fewer and fewer piano tuners, so we hope they last a bit longer yet. Its sad to see all these lovely instruments go to the tip but I guess that's where my trains will end up. Merry Christmas Brian. Hi Brian, Cheers, My Dad was a Church Organist down in Cornwall and couldn't play without Music, and Mum could Play but couldn't read Music, I was a bit of both. A friend of mine is a Piano Tuner and Railway Modeller, as you quite rightly say, fewer Piano Tuners around now, and more Electronic Pianos now a days. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted December 23, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 23, 2017 My present other hobbies apart form model railways, well I like to sit on me bottom and scratch (not an RMweb word) , apart from that..... I like WW2 militarily history, I use to do wargaming. I don't now but I contribute to a wargames website. The site provides drawing of military figures and equipment that can be printed and used for wargaming. Here some of examples of my work. Can dog walking be a hobby? I really enjoy taking my dogs out. I have enjoyed Punk music for many years and I still like listening to new bands. Now I am older I find the talent and originality of many youngsters fantastic. You Tube and Spotify have introduced me to many new bands, I do not watch TV but have either of them on instead. No sense of rhythm and being tone deaf sort of curtailed my ability to take part in music but I do like listening. 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted December 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2017 Why does that not surprise me Clive? A man of many talents.... Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted December 23, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 23, 2017 Potholing Get down and get dirty. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 (edited) My present other hobbies apart form model railways, well I like to sit on me bottom and scratch (not an RMweb word) , apart from that..... I like WW2 militarily history, I use to do wargaming. I don't now but I contribute to a wargames website. The site provides drawing of military figures and equipment that can be printed and used for wargaming. Here some of examples of my work. RHA 1914.png 76.2mm Pak 79 FA.png D Day Para RAMC 195 alfa.png LCI (L) 1.png Can dog walking be a hobby? I really enjoy taking my dogs out. I have enjoyed Punk music for many years and I still like listening to new bands. Now I am older I find the talent and originality of many youngsters fantastic. You Tube and Spotify have introduced me to many new bands, I do not watch TV but have either of them on instead. No sense of rhythm and being tone deaf sort of curtailed my ability to take part in music but I do like listening. I auditioned for a Punk Band when I moved up here, but at 55 I couldn't adapt to playing WRONG NOTES, hahhah I've often looked at the Military Figures, there were some at the Bachmann Launch earlier this year as they sell some. The figure painting is astonishing mate, well done. And yes I guess Dog walking counts, well my Greyhound enjoys it, so do I. MEANT TO SAY = is your pics for the Aussies as well, hahha? Edited December 23, 2017 by Andrew P 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 (edited) Potholing Get down and get dirty. Hahha Andy, no good for me mate, I tell the Wife I get claustrophobia in the Supermarkets, haha. At least, that's what I tell the missis! Very brave indeed mate. Edited December 24, 2017 by Andrew P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 What is it about Waterlooville that attracts so many over-achievers??? My mum and dad lived near there for 25 years.and I did not notice any osmosis. How do you guys fit all this in? I can barely give my railway habit the time it needs, let alone anything else in the daily grind of cleaning, cooking, very bad gardening and DIY-ing, decorating, repairing, dog-walking, chauffeuring, socialising, tablet-taking enforcing, wheelchairing, washing upping and log chopping, as well as social media-ering, off-beam opinion sharing? Have you developed some kind of duplicator, like in the Michael Keaton film? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 What is it about Waterlooville that attracts so many over-achievers??? My mum and dad lived near there for 25 years.and I did not notice any osmosis. How do you guys fit all this in? I can barely give my railway habit the time it needs, let alone anything else in the daily grind of cleaning, cooking, very bad gardening and DIY-ing, decorating, repairing, dog-walking, chauffeuring, socialising, tablet-taking enforcing, wheelchairing, washing upping and log chopping, as well as social media-ering, off-beam opinion sharing? Have you developed some kind of duplicator, like in the Michael Keaton film? I don't do = Cleaning, Gardening, DIYing, Decorating, Repairing, and many other things, hahaha. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Music, or more precisely, electric organs. I must admit I have a passion for organs, or fairground organs to be more precise - bigger the better, and powered by a couple of showman's engines. The power, and the pull of the GDSF. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I don't do = Cleaning, Gardening, DIYing, Decorating, Repairing, and many other things, hahaha. I would like to retort by saying you are missing out......but I can't, you lucky barsteward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Over the years I reckon I've spent quite a bit more on my guitar collection (and the various accessories for it) than I have on toy trains. I wish I could play them properly though - I like most types of noisy rock music, but my favourite seems to be towards the prog end of the scale - songs start to get interesting around the 8 minute mark What I can actually play is rather too thrashy and imprecise for it to be worth me trying to start a Dream Theater covers band! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted December 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2017 Agreed - pushing the dyson gives me a headache! Don't do ironing either - but do shop and cook...enjoy the cooking , done the Christmas ham today, Florentines tomorrow. Phil 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Self-explanatory: A decade separates the two photos of Bill. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 24, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 24, 2017 (edited) I've done model railways since I was about 6 - starting with Triang TT. I used to do 1/12 and 1/8 scale radio control stock cars - club champion at Urmston 1986-1990 and 1993/94 (I took two years out to do 1/8 scale) Best claim to fame is 1/12 stock car BRCA national champion in 1988 (Don't mention this to fellow RMwebber sf315..........) My brother used to race Brisca F1 and helped him a lot, often doing R/C on the Saturday morning, visiting a model railway ex in the afternoon and then going on to mechanic for him in the evening. That was a full day out. Before that, we would go to every meeting possible - great being able to drive 90 miles to Aycliffe and back as a learner driver and not go near a motorway if we diverted through Darlington for the last few miles. There was a dalliance with trail biking - I had a lightened Honda XL185 for green laning in the Yorkshire Dales and Lake District, but it always needed trailering somewhere to find the best routes - great fun but didn't have enough time with all the other stuff. Nowadays, it's golf and cycling, both on and off road, although both curtailed at the moment due to injury/illness. John O Groats during a Round Britain ride by a friend of mine (I just did the top bit of Scotland with him - 350 miles in 6 days.) He did 4400miles in 10 weeks in total. It was blimmin cold - even in June. Doing a triathlon, as part of a relay team - Jeffrey Hill between the Hodder Valley and Ribble Valley. The bit just at the back of shot is about 1 in 4. I didn't get off and push. And my other bike at Coed Y Brenin mountain bike centre. As for spectator sports - none of this kicking an air filled bladder around by a bunch of overpaid prima donnas. Ice hockey. Regularly watchong the Blackburn Hawks (2-0 win earlier tonight). Even going to watch a couple of NHL games when we go to the US on holiday. Although my nephew now drives a Brisca F1 car, I only watch him occasionally as it not the same anymore as in the 70s-80s - all the cars look the same and they aren't quite as loud. Cheers, Mick Edited December 24, 2017 by newbryford 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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