brossard Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I was wondering why the change. I just got one with the idea to convert to EM by simply putting extended 3mm dia axles (from EMGS) on the wheels (I could try just pulling the wheels out a tad but I'm not sure how good that would be). Markits tender wheel axles are 2mm nom. The 3F tender wheel axle is 3mm (go figure). I haven't taken mine apart yet so can't check the loco axles. If it truly is 2.14 mm, it is bizarre. Why not choose 2mm? I would be interested in knowing how those converting to EM and P4 tackle the job. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Found out about the axle issue at Warley from Pete , thats just one of the issues that convinced me to carry on with my Alan Gibson kit of same. I have in the past been reasonably successful at pulling wheels out to EM, but be warned theres not a lot of meat usually left on the stub axle! Howvere it does work and a number of the locos on New Hey have had this trick done to them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Thanks Andy. I just checked mine and, yes the axle is 2.14 mm. I notice that K&S5039 3/32" (0.094") Stainless Rod (which I just happen to have in stock) is close to 2.14 mm (0.084"). Some judicious reaming of bearings and wheels might well do the trick. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete55 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I was wondering why the change. I just got one with the idea to convert to EM by simply putting extended 3mm dia axles (from EMGS) on the wheels (I could try just pulling the wheels out a tad but I'm not sure how good that would be). Markits tender wheel axles are 2mm nom. The 3F tender wheel axle is 3mm (go figure). I haven't taken mine apart yet so can't check the loco axles. If it truly is 2.14 mm, it is bizarre. Why not choose 2mm? I would be interested in knowing how those converting to EM and P4 tackle the job. John The tender axles are the standard one Bachmann fit to most tenders.......shouldered to 2mm....so any make of tender wheel with a 2mm hole will fit....Gibsons, Markits etc By the way, the re chassied Bachmann B1 which arrived today also has loco axles of 2.14mm in those little brass bushes....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 By the way, the re chassied Bachmann B1 which arrived today also has loco axles of 2.14mm in those little brass bushes....... W H A T....? You cant jus say your new retooled B1 arrived today without saying from whome and without posting pictures! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekEm8 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 W H A T....? You cant jus say your new retooled B1 arrived today without saying from whome and without posting pictures! Pete Now come on you cant just leave teasers like that. Got to agree with Larry wheres the pictures and critique - have you converted it yet ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Pete Now come on you cant just leave teasers like that. Got to agree with Larry wheres the pictures and critique - have you converted it yet ? It's about a 20 minute drive from 53A Models to where Pete lives, that's usually time enough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete55 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Hi again, Not had time to take pics yet......only to whip the bottom off to confirm what I could see underneath re the axle size. Larry, it looks no different to the existing B1......its basically a re chassis only. Derek......give us a chance! Have a couple of ideas for converting....not sure if they are viable, but will be more involved than prevoiusly! Certainly not a 20 minute re wheel Pennine..... But Colin (of Alan Gibson) is fully aware, and has a 3F in his workshop...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikks Posted December 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2011 What a Silly Billy! Alan Gibson sell them, there may be others like Markits perhaps, even though they are in the UK. Or - do you know anyone with a small lathe? Many years ago I turned a 4mm whistle and Salter safety valve spindles on a 5 inch Harrison lathe in Derby Loco works Training School so I know it can be done. Thanks very much Bruce Rgds.......Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 How much meat it on the gear wheel to ream it out to 3mm/1/8"? That would be the big issue as a Brassmasters style foldup around the outside of the existing chassis with new bearing slots in it would be no issues for P4 and sort out the frame width too. Im sure Ultrascale and Alan Gibson can mould some wheels with the correctly smaller hole in them though for this. Would certainly be easier than bushing axle ends. I haven't had a hands on look at one yet to see how the splashers look to accommodate the 00 wheels and if that involved any compromise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 It really is disappointing that Bachmann would alter the design of their new standard chassis with undersized axles. As far as I can tell 2.14 mm isn't even a standard rod diameter (Design best practice says that you use standard parts where you can). See post # 232. Why not 2mm or 1/8"? Or, leave them at 3 mm. They must have had a reason, I'd like to hear the rationale. Surely Bachmann are aware of the desire to convert locos to other gauges - why make it so blasted awkward? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2011 It really is disappointing that Bachmann would alter the design of their new standard chassis with undersized axles. As far as I can tell 2.14 mm isn't even a standard rod diameter (Design best practice says that you use standard parts where you can). See post # 232. Why not 2mm or 1/8"? Or, leave them at 3 mm. They must have had a reason, I'd like to hear the rationale. Surely Bachmann are aware of the desire to convert locos to other gauges - why make it so blasted awkward? John Probably for just as daft a reason as we finished up with 1/8" in this country. Reputedly 1/8" rod was originally the size of material used for bicycle spokes and was thus a size readily available from stock - easy to get hold, suitable for use, so 'let's use it' might well have been how we got there. And perhaps just as illogically there is some readily available source of 2.14mm rod in China (I wasn't being entirely flippant when I suggested bicycle spokes above) and it could well be descended from some other sort of measurement or it was was the stockholder had some spare of or whatever - we will no doubt never know and I doubt the Chinese or Bachmann may ever manage a logical explanation (but it might be amusing to ask). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Suspect Bachmann's biggest market will just be pleased to see the new model. A subset will notice (and only a subset) the axles running in bushes - and be pleased from an engineering/build quality point of view. A minority will note the axle diameter reduction and a few of those will be upset at the slight inconvenience. I've my own suspicions (as alluded to in my earlier post) that things changed in during the development of the 4P and 3F models - would not be at all surprised if the holes in the chassis are cast to suit 3mm dia axles without bushes. I'll have a look at the next one I open up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete55 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Suspect Bachmann's biggest market will just be pleased to see the new model. A subset will notice (and only a subset) the axles running in bushes - and be pleased from an engineering/build quality point of view. A minority will note the axle diameter reduction and a few of those will be upset at the slight inconvenience. I've my own suspicions (as alluded to in my earlier post) that things changed in during the development of the 4P and 3F models - would not be at all surprised if the holes in the chassis are cast to suit 3mm dia axles without bushes. I'll have a look at the next one I open up. Sorry, but the cast slots are way over an eighth wide......An eigth axle rattles in them! Its going to be a bushing job if 1/8th or even 3mm axles are used.....plus the associated hassle of opening out the gear accurately....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Certainly not a 20 minute re wheel Pennine..... I didnt make myself clear Pete, I was thinking 'quick' in the context of your lightning standards - it'd take me weeks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Whether it has any significance, but according to 'True Knowledge' 2.14mm = 0.08" [80 thou] Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Whether it has any significance, but according to 'True Knowledge' 2.14mm = 0.08" [80 thou] Isn't that near enough 5/64 ths of an inch in old money? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 As far as I can see the 2.14 mm diameter will derive from a standardised wire gauge. The nearest one I can find is the Hypodermic Needle Gauge which gives Gauge 14 = 2.108 mm = 0.083 in. Of course the Chinese may have their own wire gauges. Are these axles made of stainless steel? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted December 3, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 3, 2011 Can someone who has bought one of these do a couple of checks please as the photographs on the Hattons website do raise a couple of questions. What I would like ot know is: 1 How far apart are the tender frames? They look far too wide but I would like to check 2 Do the centres of the driving wheels align with the centres of the splashers? Hopefully its just the photographs but could someone check and get back please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Stuff the 2.14mm axles, out with the Gibson kit, far easier than wrestling with the conversion to EM! And whats more its a very enjoyable build. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Can someone who has bought one of these do a couple of checks please as the photographs on the Hattons website do raise a couple of questions. What I would like ot know is: 2 Do the centres of the driving wheels align with the centres of the splashers? Hopefully its just the photographs but could someone check and get back please? Yes, I have been looking at that too. The photographs seem quite odd as the wheel centres do not match with the splasher centres. I was hoping that somebody would raise this issue. It could match the prototype but I cannot find a good side-on photograph to check ; all the photos I have of 3F's are 3/4 views. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekEm8 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Yes, I have been looking at that too. The photographs seem quite odd as the wheel centres do not match with the splasher centres. I was hoping that somebody would raise this issue. It could match the prototype but I cannot find a good side-on photograph to check ; all the photos I have of 3F's are 3/4 views. Does this help A straight out of the box shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 The splashers must me over diameter to allow for thickness of plastic. The back of the centre splasher should be in front of the firebox cladding band... Photo : R. Simpson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I suppose the only practical alternative for a manufacturer would be to produce the splashers as separately fabricated brass etchings, if dimensional accuracy was utterly critical. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete55 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Does this help A straight out of the box shot. See its not converted yet then........!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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