RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2012 This is the reason i buy my models from local shops (mainly), you can have a good look at them before you part with cash, however admittedly i never looked at my 67s til i got home but as i said before i think i got lucky with my pair of loco's both being spot on out of the box I'm inclined to agree. Howes said to me that yes, their products are more expensive, but the customer pays a premium to keep the shop in business for the customer's benefit, and I couldn't disagree with the sense of that. They discount 10% whereas Hattons et al do 20%, but if I buy from Howes I get the model straight away and ensure that Howes are there when I need them for superglue, plastic strip, paint, tools etc. I bought a D11/2 from them just to prove their point! (no QC problems there!) Looking more closely at my 67, it seems to be one of the 'good' ones - very much in inverted commas. There are still a fair few problems. The space between 6700 and 1 is bigger than all the other spaces and the 'E' of EWS on one side is not printed straight. Then there's the deflector plates: at one end they don't clip in quite square in the side-to-side plane, and neither end is particularly flush in the front-to-back plane, if that makes sense. As for the yellow ends, Hornby seem to have hedged and rather than going for a vertical edge or an edge parallel to the slope of the front, they've done them sort of halfway between vertical and parallel! Then just to make sure they've covered all possibilities (!) they've done one edge more or less vertical at the bottom, changing to parallel by the top! Twits. There are also signs of the dreaded Translucent Touch-Up mentioned by RE. Apart from these QC issues there's also a flaw in the windscreen that I don't believe has been picked up in this thread. 67 windscreens have a black border all the way round, with curved lower corners; this border is (as far as I can tell) neither proud nor recessed. Hornby's, just like the Lima model, has no curved lower corners and appears to be recessed. In fact, it looks like it's come straight off the Lima model. To me, this feature of the windscreen is a major factor in the front-end character, and together with the Lima w/s wipers, might explain why people have found the front end unconvincing. Nobody seems to have noticed the gaffs in the box blurb either. They talk about 67s working on 'top and tail' trains when they mean (presumably) working 'top and tail' on RHTT trains. I was very surprised, though, that they got to the fifth paragraph before they made their usual it's/its mistake. This is Key Stage 2 in the National Curriculum - i.e., something kids are expected to know by 6 or 7 years old! Hornby, if you find this difficult, PM me and I'll copy-edit your blurb for you in future! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2012 daddyman, i was going to say you are being a bit picky about the lack of curved black surround on the screen as the model does have a black surround however when looking at some prototype pictures of 67001 i can see exactly what you mean and it is quite a noticable feature (i normally see the real windscreens from the other side of course!) , i may mask mine off and use a fine sharpie marker on my pair and add the curve in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:67001_at_Kings_Cross_2.jpg cant quite see what you are getting at about the blurb on the box (the top and tail reference)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2012 Glad you agree, big jim. I think I am too picky, yes (!), but not in this instance: after all, Hornby manage to get the wooden surround the correct shape on steam loco cabside windows. Those are painted on to the glazing and have curves: that's all that was needed on the 67. Your masking/marker idea might work - perhaps if done from the inside? My plan was to replace the whole windscreen, then mask out and airbrush the black border on the back of the glazing. Then apply your method for a mucky windscreen centre - very effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43179 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Apart from these QC issues there's also a flaw in the windscreen that I don't believe has been picked up in this thread. 67 windscreens have a black border all the way round, with curved lower corners; this border is (as far as I can tell) neither proud nor recessed. Hornby's, just like the Lima model, has no curved lower corners and appears to be recessed. In fact, it looks like it's come straight off the Lima model. To me, this feature of the windscreen is a major factor in the front-end character, and together with the Lima w/s wipers, might explain why people have found the front end unconvincing. Also, The black edge should be applied from inside the glazing , not printed on the outside , and there should be no raised beading around the windscreen at all - the glass and cabfront should all be flush . This is how its done properly http://www.cjmmodels.co.uk/v2_gallery/pages/Class_67_EWS.html Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43179 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 As for the yellow ends, Hornby seem to have hedged and rather than going for a vertical edge or an edge parallel to the slope of the front, they've done them sort of halfway between vertical and parallel! Then just to make sure they've covered all possibilities (!) they've done one edge more or less vertical at the bottom, changing to parallel by the top! Just resprayed the yellow on mine to correct this very error - once the masking tape is off (and ive had a cup of tea) ill take a piccy Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2012 Any tips on a colour match? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john beckett Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 We have to remember that these days it's all about minimum input maximum profit. As for QC their is none. Whos telling the guys in china whats exceptable. No one we just get what they send. If I was the top man at Hornby I would have looked at the 60 and said to myself how can we make the 56 better. Give it that wow factor if you like. And it should have been the same with the 67 these models should be bang on now each one getting better than the last not going backwards we live in 2012 and the tools are their now so their is no excuses like we have had in the past. The 67 is a key model for me I am no professional but that plastic grill at one end and the disc brakes are a joke this tooling is it and no one will look at doing it again now so it is what it is. I'll stop with my Lima one which is not right ether and the few hundred I had saved can go on wagons. If you can not get it right first time don't bother doing it at all. And to ask a 3 figure sum then I'll have to go out and spend on etching if they become available and paint and p&p to get it right is a joke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trent Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Should be legomanbiffo sounds on a decoder from Charlie at DC Kits. Great news, have to admit, wasn't aware Biff had done a 67 so assuming I can find reasonably good EWS & DBS versions I'll also be calling Charlie for some decoders. Question for you and the others here that have already fitted sound > how easy was the speaker fitment and whose speaker did you use? I was thinking about fitting a 20 x 40 base enhanced, anyone else already done that? Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43179 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Biffos 67 sounds the best so far out of all the ones i've heard. Heres a few snaps of mine now that I've resprayed the yellow ends to the correct shape - I think it does wonders for the model , and helps accentuate the negative rake on the lower cabfronts - very nice. I airbrushed a very thin layer of (Precision) white primer first , then some humbrol gloss yellow , then the final color match was a little mixture of 80s warning panel yellow and a couple of drops of Freightliner yellow - again both from Precision. with this little 'fix' done , the more I look at the Hornby skip , the more I like it tfn Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2012 Great news, have to admit, wasn't aware Biff had done a 67 so assuming I can find reasonably good EWS & DBS versions I'll also be calling Charlie for some decoders. Question for you and the others here that have already fitted sound > how easy was the speaker fitment and whose speaker did you use? I was thinking about fitting a 20 x 40 base enhanced, anyone else already done that? Martin Hi Martin, See Jim's postfitting a 20x40 bass enhanced. It is incredibly easy - the fuel tank is held on by two screws and is gentle levered off. The wires thread back up through the chassis without any problems. Charlie didn't have the correct speaker - he'd sold out - but I'm just going to delve into my stores box. There's a faint chance of a 4ohm bass speaker in there, otherwise, it's mail order tomorrow! EDIT: I have a 100ohm bass enhanced, so it's off to order a 4ohm speaker........ Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2012 43179: what brake discs have you put in your model? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43179 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Good evening Jim Ive just popped some Colin Craig 12mm disc braked wheels in my 67 - so it can sit it on my P4 Track. The wheels are a little bit too small for a 'skip' (but not by much) and the brake discs are not correct either - but It looks nice. Intercity Models dont have any 67 brake discs in at the moment , as I was hoping to get some to try at Scaleforum. Hopefully shawplan will do us proud - If/when the correct discs are available , id ditch the original wheels and use Hornby coach wheels , as they're just right! tfn Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2012 Renumbered my skip using Modelmaster Class 66 transfers (they are the same size). Set into place over the ribs using Microsol. I removed the EWS logo also, so that the colour matched. As I said earlier, the existing EWS gold is a bit fragile and I ended up touching up the upper section of the bodyside flash, using Railmatch EWS gold with a hint of white added. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 We have to remember that these days it's all about minimum input maximum profit. As for QC their is none. Whos telling the guys in china whats exceptable. No one we just get what they send. If I was the top man at Hornby I would have looked at the 60 and said to myself how can we make the 56 better. Give it that wow factor if you like. And it should have been the same with the 67 these models should be bang on now each one getting better than the last not going backwards we live in 2012 and the tools are their now so their is no excuses like we have had in the past. The 67 is a key model for me I am no professional but that plastic grill at one end and the disc brakes are a joke this tooling is it and no one will look at doing it again now so it is what it is. I'll stop with my Lima one which is not right ether and the few hundred I had saved can go on wagons. If you can not get it right first time don't bother doing it at all. And to ask a 3 figure sum then I'll have to go out and spend on etching if they become available and paint and p&p to get it right is a joke You major on the model being 'a joke' - your emphasis - yet fail to really tell us why. 'That plastic grill' (which one) and 'the disc brakes' (covered by plenty of other contributors, and not hard to improve, it seems to me) are about all! I'd have thought that the split bodies and amateurish repairs reported recently were the actual areas of concern, as symptoms of what may be fundamental issues at Hornby. Big Jim and 43179 look to me to be a pair of experts on this type of traction whose views I would respect and take on board. So, not sure where the above rant really moved us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 You major on the model being 'a joke' - your emphasis - yet fail to really tell us why. 'That plastic grill' (which one) and 'the disc brakes' (covered by plenty of other contributors, and not hard to improve, it seems to me) are about all! I'd have thought that the split bodies and amateurish repairs reported recently were the actual areas of concern, as symptoms of what may be fundamental issues at Hornby. Big Jim and 43179 look to me to be a pair of experts on this type of traction whose views I would respect and take on board. So, not sure where the above rant really moved us. Hi Cahrd, Think he meant the fact that you have to repaint areas of it etc to get it right ... to be honest isnt that what modelling is about anyways? I think though if a model was perfect then the modelling side of the hobby would be a bit boring ,as most of us if not some, perfer something a little bit more personal than something identical to the other 1000s of "67001/67013"s out there NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
valeofyork Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Hi Cahrd, Think he meant the fact that you have to repaint areas of it etc to get it right ... to be honest isnt that what modelling is about anyways? I think though if a model was perfect then the modelling side of the hobby would be a bit boring ,as most of us if not some, perfer something a little bit more personal than something identical to the other 1000s of "67001/67013"s out there If you want to change the number, etc, then fine - but for those of us with limited modelling skills it's hardly unreasonable to expect the model as released to be an accurate representation of the loco protrayed. Putting that railtour logo on 67001's nose seems a rather daft thing to do as well - why did Hornby do it? This restricts it to a pretty small time period, whereas without that it would be representative of the loco from when it was new right up until it was repainted blue fairly recently, with only the addition of name plates required (easy to obtain and fit) to represent its earlier years. As produced, it you want to add name plates and keep it accurate it will also be necessary to repaint the yellow at one end to get rid of the railtour sticker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted October 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2012 The wheels are a little bit too small for a 'skip' (but not by much) and the brake discs are not correct either - but It looks nice. it certainly does look nice, amazing how such a little thing can transform the look of the loco your mention of fitting coach wheels, how doy ou do that re the worm drive etc, do you just replace the wheels or the whole axle (not something i've ever done)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted October 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2012 ive had my shenker one apart to see about getting the windscreen out to draw the surround on, the cabs are simple to remove, no glue, simply popped out however the window is glued in in the bottom corners, doesn't even budge a milimeter and i didn't want to force it so i've left it where it is i was thinking about running a marker round the edge of the screen along the mounting lip however the current black surround is in fact painted on the inside of the "glass" so i would be merely drawing over it so would achieve nothing, i think i may well just add the lower curve to the outside of the glass to start with to see how it looks, the wipers are easy to remove to be able to get to the screen without obstruction, just prize/pull out while the cabs are out in wondering whether to touch up some bits and bobs like the power handle, direction lever etc maybe draw the shapes of the cabinets on the rear walls, with reprisentations of the various labels, definatly gonna get a driver in there and weather up the top and front of the dashboard ledge though as they get filthy on the real thing just sat looking at the DB Shenker chassis in the box, one thing i will do is dirty up the grey grilles that can be seen behind the etched grille, they will look far too clean when the loco is weathered up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john beckett Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Ok looks like I have up set a few folk here. I'll try to keep it short. My rant was not intended at any one on this forum. And I was trying to reply to a paragraph a few pages before. But I was pulled a way from what I was doing in my text and by the time I got back to it and it the reply button you guys were a few pages on by then. Wheels changed, sound fitted and so on. So it did look out of place and even more so when the paragraph did not show with it. NickL2008 that is what i was trying to say in a round about way and you should not have to take a hundred pound model straight from the box and having to re paint it to get it right. As for the plastic grill at one end it's the one behind the drivers door below the silencer. If I am wrong please let me no. As for for big jim he as help me out so may times over the years with problems fitting sound and so on I am indedted to him and very respect full of jim These guys over the years have pushed me inspired me give me confidents to have a go at all shorts of thing in model railways and I still look up to them and a good few others on this forum but I have still got lots to learn and still have a lot to do.sorry if I have up set any one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Oh dear, I've just read all that. Hornby's woes continue...I bet they are rofl at barwell... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Oh dear, I've just read all that. Hornby's woes continue...I bet they are rofl at barwell... They aren't doing too well either going by their MLV Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Interesting article on the rail exclusives site about the class 67 quality control. It ends with this paragraph 'We have now exhausted our supply, with all 'acceptable' items sold or held back for pre-orders yet to pay. Unfortunately because of this we are no longer in a position to take any new orders or offer any exchanges to our customers and can only direct them to the Hornby Customer Service Department (which we will support). We suggest all existing or prospective owners of new Class 67s examine the models very closely, and if you are not satisfied with the build quality or finish then please take it up with your retailer and the manufacturer.' Methinks thats actually a little bit illegal though! The irony of them advising others check their models and take it up with their retailer in the same paragraph as them saying as 'their customers retailer' their customers are on thier own is a bit stupid. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochnagar Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Just a link to the Rail Exclusive page showing what to look out for when you're buying a 67, definitely worth checking it over before purchase. I Bought an EWS one at the weekend from Manchester show and went through a couple before I bought one. (The trader in question being very accommodating). Very nice model indeed, better packaging too. It amazes me that the said problems got through quality control, so I'm guessing they were damaged in transit and patched up without the knowledge of Hornby quality control, after the initial check. Hats off to Hornby and RE for taking back the affected models. Let's hope the replacement batch is up to the same superb standard as the existing 'good' models. Link; http://www.railexclusive.com/index.php?category=132 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike tugsandsheds Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Gonna be paying for mine on the 19/10 Hopefully they will bring out the Royal ones ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account 2 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Hornby just replied to my email regarding the damaged Class 67's. They said that the damage occured in transit and when they passed QC everything was fine. I do believe this is the case because if QC were to blame their other models like ''Clive of India'' & ''Crewekerne'' would have not been checked properly at QC but they turned up fine in the next batch! So I guess the damage to the Class 67's may have occured in transit. Anyone elses views on this? And just a lil question if the models were damaged in transit who was responsible for trying to repair them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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