Kirkby Luneside (Original): End of the line....

[Jason T]

Are things really much worse now than back then, litter wise, or is it just that the materials that people litter with are non-bio-degradeable now? Sure, there is more graffiti (down to the tagging phenomenon, most likely 'inherited' from the US) but I remember litter in the 1970's and if anything, a lot of places seem tidier now. Is it just a case of rose-tinted spectacles?

 

I did read an interesting statistic a while ago that knife crime was higher in the 1950's than now, it's just that the media sensationalises it now.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Sandside

[67A]

If that is snow fencing, and I do not doubt that it is given its sturdy construction, is the hill it is protecting the railway from, hiding, (yes I've been up mountains where the crest in front of you is the 'top' only to find when you get there a bigger one is hiding behind it, and an even biger one after that), or is it flat the other sidew and so is protecting the railway from blown snow?

Hi Chris,

At the north end of Dent station past the 'Coal Road' bridge the land is still rising moderately so the fences shown in the picture were to prevent the snow blowing down into the cutting whilst opposite the station and a bit further south there were a couple of lines of fencing behind each other due to the steeper slope, it did'nt work in 1947 or 1963 though.

Cheers

Mike

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris,

At the north end of Dent station past the 'Coal Road' bridge the land is still rising moderately so the fences shown in the picture were to prevent the snow blowing down into the cutting whilst opposite the station and a bit further south there were a couple of lines of fencing behind each other due to the steeper slope, it did'nt work in 1947 or 1963 though.

Cheers

Mike

 

Thanks.  I do not know the area but that is what I assumed.  I remember a video on youtube, which I thought was 1963 but I have just found it and it is 1955, a goods train getting stuck on Bleath Gill in the snow.

 

I'll post it here

 

Now would that make a nice diorama?

[southern42]

Superb photos Jeff.  I'll have to come back just to have a more detailed look.

Had another tweak on my track plan yesterday and used a couple of Y points (inspired by [Edit: Andy Ps] Glen Roy) leading to the platform instead of the double slip [Edit: 3way point - just goes to show how much I remember.  AHAHA].  Maybe I'll add it to my thread for scrutiny, inspection, approval general interest.
 

But the railway back then was like that.  OK so on a few very rundown lines from the late'60s onwards the lineside got messy but generally the cess area was always kept neat and tidy for the simple reason that it had to be in order to provide safe walking and embankments and cuttings were kept under control to prevent the growth of trees and large shrubs which would interfere with drainage and soil stability as well as reducing fire hazard risk.  I don't know how it was done on the LMR but standard WR practice was to burn off embankments and cutting sides twice a year once in Spring and again in the Autumn.
 
All of this sort of attention began to fall by the wayside with teh end of steam traction, well maintained cresses were often inundated as ballast depth was greatly increased for cwr and higher line speeds and so on.  The lineside of today - made even worse by the years of Railtrack mismanagement and penny pinching - is almost no guide whatsoever to the way things were up and into the 1960s and, in some places, the 1970s.

 

So, to replicate the burnt trackside would using burnt hanging basket liner give the right effect?  Or is there a better way?  Would the burnt effect still be around in December and was this also GWR practice?   And no, I'm not going to be adding snow or frost though I may include some icy puddles

If you know of any models on the website that have done this, can you please point me in the right direction?

Too many questions?  Too serious?  Off topic?   

 

Polly

 

Edit.  See ist para.

Edited January 14, 2013 by southern42

[figworthy]

 

 

So, to replicate the burnt trackside would using burnt hanging basket liner give the right effect?  Or is there a better way?  Would the burnt effect still be around in December and was this also GWR practice?   And no, I'm not going to be adding snow or frost though I may include some icy puddles

If you know of any models on the website that have done this, can you please point me in the right direction?

Too many questions?  Too serious?  Off topic?   

 

Polly

 

There was an article in MRJ 217 (August last year) on "Fencehouses" that has a section of banking where there has been a fire.  Not sure if Fencehouses appears on here, but it might be worth a look.

 

 

Adrian

[Andrew P]

Hi Jeff, Just popped in for a quick look and low and behold we are on to another page. No time to catch up tonight but I will have a read over coffee in the morning.

 

All the best Andy.

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff, Just popped in for a quick look and low and behold we are on to another page. No time to catch up tonight but I will have a read over coffee in the morning.

 

All the best Andy.

 

Andy, I just popped in to see if anyone had posted anything. Bloomin' heck!! About another 10 posts since early evening. And an interesting batch too!

 

I'm glad Mike has answered your fencing question, Chris. And Jason, I think it IS rose-tinted specs. So much went on those days that we never heard about. Now, someone sneezes and it's world news!

 

Jeff

Edited January 14, 2013 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff,

 

What can I say, pictures speak volumes! You can see at glance what all the 3000+ posts are leading toward - a blooming marvellous layout this is going to be, well done for now. No doddling - back to the bunker...

Cheers

mike

Thanks very much Mike. Your comments are really appreciated. I do like to take my time and TRY to do things properly. So far, so good. Let's see how I fare with the track bus/wiring part of the layout and the start of the hill/fell, over the next 3 weeks. Whatever happens I know the Lunesters will drive me on.

 

Check your Hotmail - I re-sent some stuff to you. Let me know if it proved downloadable.

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Polly, on THIS thread there is NO SUCH THING as too many questions etc. We are a bunch of modellers and I think I speak for everybody here when I say that we are all learning new things every day.

 

Take the layout I'm building. Before this I'd had very limited experience of flexitrack and had never used SMP or had to modify turnouts. The gang guided me along and I was away. So if anyone has a relevant comment, please chuck it in here.

 

All readers will know that I've been keen to create a warm, friendly atmosphere on the thread. I was getting concerned that the modelling might get submerged, but having created the Index I realised 2 things. First, there was a massive core of modelling central to the thread and second, the majority of the discussion work was both highly relevant, entertaining and downright useful. Well, at least I enjoyed it - and I read ALL 120 pages worth last week!!

 

So jet's just carry on the way we are. "Hardcore" readers will still get their (modelling) kicks, I promise! [Come on then, which wit is going to be first to make a humorous comment!!? Lol.   ]

 

Jeff

[unravelled]

Fibre optic strands fading between red and white at the edge of the burned area, and a smoke unit below. It has to be done...

 

There may have been less litter, but there was a lot more trespass! It's a shame that I didn't buy enough film to record more.

 

Dave

[southern42]

 

Thanks.  I do not know the area but that is what I assumed.  I remember a video on youtube, which I thought was 1963 but I have just found it and it is 1955, a goods train getting stuck on Bleath Gill in the snow.

 

I'll post it here

 

Now would that make a nice diorama?

Just watched that. Had me riveted.

How often do you see a train rescue on a layout?

 

Can't imagine all those people digging out today - if someone goes out to dig out the snow on the road, others just thank you on their way down the hill in their cars - while YOU're clearing it to get your car out. Where were they and their shovels when you got started?

Edited January 14, 2013 by southern42

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Jeff, all,

Just had to come on and say what a pleasure it is to see all your lovely track laid out so well and to see how it all fits together. It really flows beautifully!

One can scarcely imagine that you had not done it before!!!

Cheers,

Deutsche Lunester!

John E.

[peach james]

I'm just a little suprised- I've never lit one of my engines on fire _deliberately_ on the outside before.  In fact, at work, we definitely frown on it.  (it's called a "damage control incident" when it happens...)

 

I know over here, when the CaTS ran the snowplow in the late 90's, they had a team of throwers tossing snow into the tenders of the K's to keep them full of water.  The tenders are fitted with steam heat coils for that kind of purpose.  The brief would have been to burn everything, including the floorboards, to try and keep a fire in the loco.  Frozen boiler in full size is probably scrap...

 

James

[billyb_imp]

Thanks.  I do not know the area but that is what I assumed.  I remember a video on youtube, which I thought was 1963 but I have just found it and it is 1955, a goods train getting stuck on Bleath Gill in the snow.

 

I'll post it here

 

Now would that make a nice diorama?

 

Great video Chris, I love the idea of "cutting the snow into blocks, like you would your landlady's cake" and commentary by the wonderful Derek Guyler, Corky the policeman from "Sykes"

[Physicsman]

Great video Chris, I love the idea of "cutting the snow into blocks, like you would your landlady's cake" and commentary by the wonderful Derek Guyler, Corky the policeman from "Sykes"

 

Bit off thread, but are you old enough to remember him in "Please Sir!" (about 1970) with John Alderton. I think he was in some of the Beatles' films, too. Great character - instantly recognisable voice!

 

Good video Chris - really from another era! (To quote Olddudders' catchphrase: "when men were men and sheep were....scared!").

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff, all,

Just had to come on and say what a pleasure it is to see all your lovely track laid out so well and to see how it all fits together. It really flows beautifully!

One can scarcely imagine that you had not done it before!!!

Cheers,

Deutsche Lunester!

John E.

 

 

Very kind, John. Nope, never done anything like that before. Soldered track, yes, but never had the pleasure of a decent track geometry with large radius curves and turnouts. 

 

Maybe I should just leave it like that! Friends who've seen it (non-modellers) think that it's complete - the "train set" mentality! They then ask how much longer it'll be before I've finished. When I reply "oh, about 2 years" they look at me as if I'm crazy (well, I am!).

 

Hope you are enjoying your Deutsche stuff John - you'll have one of those ICE super-trains running alongside German steam, will you? 

 

Jeff

[Andrew P]

Polly, on THIS thread there is NO SUCH THING as too many questions etc. We are a bunch of modellers and I think I speak for everybody here when I say that we are all learning new things every day.

 

Take the layout I'm building. Before this I'd had very limited experience of flexitrack and had never used SMP or had to modify turnouts. The gang guided me along and I was away. So if anyone has a relevant comment, please chuck it in here.

 

All readers will know that I've been keen to create a warm, friendly atmosphere on the thread. I was getting concerned that the modelling might get submerged, but having created the Index I realised 2 things. First, there was a massive core of modelling central to the thread and second, the majority of the discussion work was both highly relevant, entertaining and downright useful. Well, at least I enjoyed it - and I read ALL 120 pages worth last week!!

 

So jet's just carry on the way we are. "Hardcore" readers will still get their (modelling) kicks, I promise! [Come on then, which wit is going to be first to make a humorous comment!!? Lol.   ]

 

Jeff

 

Polly, on THIS thread there is NO SUCH THING as too many questions etc. We are a bunch of modellers and I think I speak for everybody here when I say that we are all learning new things every day.

 

Take the layout I'm building. Before this I'd had very limited experience of flexitrack and had never used SMP or had to modify turnouts. The gang guided me along and I was away. So if anyone has a relevant comment, please chuck it in here.

 

All readers will know that I've been keen to create a warm, friendly atmosphere on the thread. I was getting concerned that the modelling might get submerged, but having created the Index I realised 2 things. First, there was a massive core of modelling central to the thread and second, the majority of the discussion work was both highly relevant, entertaining and downright useful. Well, at least I enjoyed it - and I read ALL 120 pages worth last week!!

 

So jet's just carry on the way we are. "Hardcore" readers will still get their (modelling) kicks, I promise! [Come on then, which wit is going to be first to make a humorous comment!!? Lol.   ]

 

Jeff

Morning Jeff, well nearly AFTERNOON.

I sat down with a coffee and a nice piece of coffee and walnut cake to catch up on the last couple of pages,the cake was nice but the coffee has now gone COLD. This is such an enthralling thread, once I start to read a section, I then look for the answer to the question. As you say almost nothing is off topic and I personally have learned so much over this last 9 Months. I love the way you did your frame, the way you changed the track plan, removed the offending viaduct and tackeled those Cobolts. All the way through this process you have had guidence, information, and some good old fasioned banter, PLUS my bad speeeeeeeeeeeeling. Never did go to a PROPPER school, well I probably did, I just did not listen. HAHAHheeee. 

 

Long may KL continue in it present format for ALL TO LEARN AND ENJOY.

 

By the time I have written this there will probably be another half a dozen bits to read, it is trully never ending.

 

As for  a comment of yours somewhere, (cant find it, it is NOT INDEXED) about this layout being finished, well I hope it never is, let it grow and develope, lets get to the stage where we are discussing train formation, Loco crew overalls and jackes being the WRONG COLOUR and whether the flowers in the Station Masters Garden are out of sinc with the season.

 

Gordon S has reached 250,000 lets see where this little ditty ends up.

 

Have a good day.

Old Lune.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Andrew P

[Physicsman]

Andy - aside from me, you're the main contributor to this thread. Yes, I luv yoor Spelllins, thay r grite ... all part of the banter on here. Let's face it, the occasional (!!) spelling mistake isn't going to end the world, is it?

 

Plenty of jobs to look forward to in 2013. And as you say, we all learn from one another. I've just glanced through this month's BRM. The BCB project is magnificent. But who'd have thought they'd take the "prototype" to the lengths shown on the first double spread - fully integrating the model into the landscape and what went before. Brilliant. I mention this because a large portion of KL is going to be dominated by the hills, river, viaduct etc. Many people don't like the scenic side of modelling - I know that you DO. I'm looking forward to doing this - and there'll probably have been plenty of changes to the original plan when we look back in a few months time!

 

I finished my book, so my mind is now returning to "railway mode". If I had some paints I could deal with the tunnel portal. For the moment I'll just sit and daydream!

 

Jeff

Edited January 15, 2013 by Physicsman

[Andrew P]

When I go to George's I will be doing a backscene tutorial as well as some other bits, thats if I can get a word in, George has just texed me to say that there is a Steam Gala on at Bury this weekend with 7, yes that is a MIGHTY SEVEN Locos in Steam so I will probably stay for an extra night kippiing on his sette so we can go over there, it only about a 40 min drive from his pad.

 

I thought the S &C had Fell and Dykes not Hills and Valleys? Will we have a Mountain Stream, with a footpath crossing on an old rickety bridge, maybe with a walker fallen in, and his (or her) mates standing around laughing, I think Faller or Kibri do something similar, they may be HO but there are a lot of short people that do waliking so I am lead to believe, hahhahahhaaeeee.

 

Old Lune.

[Jason T]

Just to throw something into the mix, when I was looking at your photos of the full layout yesterday, I wondered whether it is too late to cut into the baseboards at the North end of the station throat to add a road underbridge in, as per the real KS site. I can prettu much guess the answer, because of the frame being in the way and therefore a requirement to re-engineer them to fit it in, but it would look fantastic.

 

Sorry.

 

[Physicsman]

Just to throw something into the mix, when I was looking at your photos of the full layout yesterday, I wondered whether it is too late to cut into the baseboards at the North end of the station throat to add a road underbridge in, as per the real KS site. I can prettu much guess the answer, because of the frame being in the way and therefore a requirement to re-engineer them to fit it in, but it would look fantastic.

 

Sorry.

 

 

Don't apologise - it's a really good idea and one which I've considered.... I drive under the actual road underbridge every time I go to and from my dad's. 

 

The problem is the number of turnouts around the station approaches. Impossible at the goods end, I'm assuming you're referring to the area between the station and the viaduct? In reality, the roadbridge starts right at the end of the platforms, as these pics show...

 

Photos are from Ian Macdonald, courtesy of his "Kirkby Stephen West" layout...

 

 

 

Jeff

[Jason T]

Out of interest, how are you going to make the dry stone walls as you are going to need one hell of a lot of walling, much of which will be on steep slopes and undulating in line with the contours? I reckon you can forget proprietary stuff as it's all made with a flat base.

 

DAS Modelling Clay to the rescue I reckon; about 30 packs of the stuff. Followed by about 50 pots of paint made up of various shades of grey (with green for moss, etc).

 

It's times like this when modelling an urban scene seems all the more sensible

[Physicsman]

Out of interest, how are you going to make the dry stone walls as you are going to need one hell of a lot of walling, much of which will be on steep slopes and undulating in line with the contours? I reckon you can forget proprietary stuff as it's all made with a flat base.

 

DAS Modelling Clay to the rescue I reckon; about 30 packs of the stuff. Followed by about 50 pots of paint made up of various shades of grey (with green for moss, etc).

 

It's times like this when modelling an urban scene seems all the more sensible

 

Harburn Hobbies produce a stone-walling product that's available at an angle. But it'd cost a fortune and wouldn't give me the flexibility I needed.

 

Andy (uax6) pointed me to a DAS-based article in the Feb RM. I also remember Alan (60091) using Milliput for the walling on his hills. I think I'll have to buy some DAS and have a play - probably come up with my own method. May have to buy a few more sheep, too!

 

Btw, I'd love to fit a road underbridge in - just nowhere I can do it.

 

Btw2 (!!), love the chimney pots on Bacup.

 

And a general request - if anybody has already come up with their own stone-walling method - would you care to share it on here?

 

Jeff

[Andrew P]

This Months Hornby Mag

 

Old Lune.

[Jason T]

Yeah, the chimney pots; they're turning out to be quite controversial and getting a fair bit of discussion. One of the 'problems' with going that extra mile with these layouts is that we need to consider these things that don't usually seem so important. Thing is, it adds to the challenge and the fun (if you can call it that) of layout building.

 

I was chatting to the bloke who runs Ten Commandments at the St Albans exhibition about chimney pots and his suggestion was to get some plastic piping and cut it to length, because 'nobody will even notice the chimney pots'. How wrong he was

 

The Harburn Hobbies ones would just look wrong on your layout; looks like it's DAS o'clock for you mate