Karl Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, JohnR said: I'd have thought another obvious one would be the original 1970 Railway Children. Pannier in that brown livery etc. Oakworth station in the Skaledale range, etc. With that I don't think Hornby have a pannier tank in the range at the moment that they would consider was suitable plus Bachmann did that set with a 57xx, 2 coaches and a scenecraft Oakworth station a few years ago. I appreciate this is the old Airfix 4F but it looks more like a 4F than the old 57xx that Hornby used to have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippel Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 So can we look forward to a 'Gladstone'? Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard 5374 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 At the end of the day as Titfield has limited appeal (railway enthusiasts and classic film enthusiasts) would it be worth going to court for? It’s a 70 or so year old film and not exactly a popular one at that. Given Hornby working with Lionel, ie the large Hogwarts Express, I am honestly surprised we did not see a OO (Lionel HO rebranded model) version of the Polar Express alongside the range, can’t think of many more popular films that feature railways to worth with than Harry Potter and the Polar Express, apart for Thomas who Bachmann are now working with. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2022 27 minutes ago, JohnR said: I'd have thought another obvious one would be the original 1970 Railway Children. Pannier in that brown livery etc. Oakworth station in the Skaledale range, etc. Bachmann have done that one though . Do they have the rights? But bottom line is , theres lots of things they could make that would not embroil them in this controversy . 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunnan Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 32 minutes ago, GWR-fan said: Similarly, does Rapido have the will to fight this through the court? I am sure that Hornby would have run their "Trains on Film" proposal through their legal department before making any announcements or do they really believe that they were untouchable. Rapido don't need to fight yet, they have a contract with Studio Canal to access the IP. Rapido only need to put up a fight if Studio Canal allow Hornby to continue, as they will have the IP holder in breach of contract. Its Studio Canals decision whether to take action against Hornby, and I think that ultimately it will come down to a decision of whether licensing Hornby in breach of Rapidos contract will return more than settling a breach of contract. We will probably never get the full details and agreements made behind closed doors with this one. The only thing that will be clear is that if Hornby do produce this within the time frame Rapido has IP rights, then Rapido will have a settlement from the IP holder as per their contract. Hornby could well push back release to a time when the current IP contract has expired at a point where they can agree their own IP contract. Damage done with announcing their own product, then pushing back the release until they can launch without threat of legal action. That would be playing true dirty tactics, though still potentially in hot water as their publicity for the forthcoming product is in breach as it stands. AY, how does the Hornby release imagery stand in terms of copyright assuming Hornby doesn't yet have permission to use the IP? 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pmorgancym Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Ohh dear..... Just to ponder, what would Hornby's reaction have been to Bachmann painting it's Jinty blue with red lining and a yellow 1 on the tanks and marketting it as 'Inspired by classic children's stories' I'm guessing the Lady with the Lamp set is purely a rear guard action 'no no look there's a serious of films Lion was used in' I suspect they would have won more friends with a 14xx and possibly Wisbech tramway coach, from which would have enjoyed some complimentary sales (both TTaf related and ironically Rapido/MR J70) But .... yeah yeah you are 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, TEAMYAKIMA said: I take the exact opposite view. I think we as a hobby need Hornby to be strong and if these sales help Hornby then I think that's great. The new niche manufacturers may be good for the established modelling community, but Hornby is our hobby's flag-bearer with the general public and we need it to succeed and be strong. I don't model British, but I'm tempted to buy some of these just to support Hornby. However looking back at their history the only times when the present incarnation of Hornby has taken any sort of jump forward in standards of things like detail and trying to get correct dimensions has been when others are snapping at their heels. I'll buy (and have bought in the past) Hornby locos and rolling stock when they offer something which is pertinent to my interests and to a standard I regard as acceptable by my measures of realism etc. But as far as I am concerned that is it - the last 'Hornby' track I bought was quite a few changes of name/ownership back and came marked Hornby Dublo and consisted of three rails on a tinplate base. I have occasionally bought buildings or building kits in Hornby packaging (and even one item that was marketed by Triang - yet another predecessor of course) but that is it. Like many modellers I use Peco track and buy other stuff from numerous different sources. Hornby is just another, albeit big (and alas sometimes rather nasty nowadays), commissioner of models from Chinese factories - no different from almost every other supplier of British outline 4mm scale r-t-r locos and stock. And Hornby cherry pick or look for niches as well - they wouldn't still be in business if they didn't. 4 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestTom Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 12 minutes ago, Legend said: Maybe Studiocanal not that bothered . its additional publicity after all and its only model trains . I doubt it. The problem here is that Hornby are making money off Studiocanal's intellectual property. People will be buying this on the grounds that it's the train from the film, spending money that Studiocanal will not be seeing. If Hornby had just said "it's Lion as running in 1952," they might have been on firmer ground (they produced Olton Hall in red with no legal issues) - but they are explicitly identifying this as the train from the film. There are a number of other issues here. If the train pack is not endorsed by Studiocanal, the studio has no control over it. If the product is bad, that reflects badly on Studiocanal. The consumer will likely assume that this is endorsed by the rights holders (which in legal terms is known as "passing off.") If Studiocanal allow this, they're setting a precedent stating that merchandise can be produced without their authorisation. It will make future claims that much harder to fight. You could even argue that if they don't act against Hornby, they'd be in breach of contract with Rapido, who had the exclusive rights. 2 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 It has also been pointed out that the rights to "The Lady with a Lamp" also lie with Studio Canal on the Rapido thread.... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, On30runner said: Rapido have made a statement which can be seen here. They and the IP aren't happy. https://youtu.be/ii0TaKq3mqg Hats off to rapido...that was a fantastic comeback!!! 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestTom Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 15 minutes ago, 69843 said: It has also been pointed out that the rights to "The Lady with a Lamp" also lie with Studio Canal on the Rapido thread.... And The Railway Children Return, which does appear to be official. Risky ground indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2022 It is all a bit sad really. There are plenty films with trains in them they could have chosen, but they have decided to pick on Rapido. There will be more hot air expelled talking about the legalities rather than the morality of such an action. Hornby's actions are not new, they have a habit of trying to undercut and undermine other manufacturers efforts. I suspect the Rapido version (but do not know) will be of better quality and will appeal to the more discerning modeller, however it is by no means certain that the Hornby version will be of lesser quality. We will have to wait and see, but I am disappointed that they have done this to Rapido, business it may be, but it leaves a sour taste in ones mouth. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinW Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, JohnR said: I'd have thought another obvious one would be the original 1970 Railway Children. Pannier in that brown livery etc. Oakworth station in the Skaledale range, etc. Didn't Bachmann do that set a few years ago? Colin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pmorgancym Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 They've missed a trick, green class 40, red mk1s..... 2 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 I doubt any lawyers would feel the need to get involved in an old but extremely delightful saddle tank 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Rather odd that they have not done Lion herself as preserved or in the 1930s, but maybe the current owners of Lion did not give Hornby rights to do that.... (what am I saying?). Or it is for a later release. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 12 minutes ago, Miss Prism said: I doubt any lawyers would feel the need to get involved in an old but extremely delightful saddle tank Awful film but great engine. Actually, those wicker hampers on the trolley and the bike make a good little grouping on the platform and the lamp's great. H'mm, some ideas for the layout there, thanks for posting the picture! None of which has anything to do with the thread so I'll stop now... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, jonnyuk said: 100%, i've said it before, all these new comers make great models but they cherry pick, they don't produce anything for the trains to run on, nor anything to control the trains, nor the scenery to make a layout etc etc. they rely Hornby/Peco/Bachmann to do the boring stuff but essential stuff I couldn't agree more and when my club was trying to raise money by running a raffle at our exhibition it was Hornby who sent along a train set to be the first prize. Now, I totally agree that if Hornby have broken some law, then they are wrong in this case, but this all this anti-Hornby rhetoric is IMHO counter productive in the bigger picture of our hobby's long term future. Edited January 10, 2022 by TEAMYAKIMA 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2022 27 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said: I couldn't agree more and when my club was trying to raise money by running a raffle at our exhibition it was Hornby who sent along a train set to be the first prize. Now, I totally agree that if Hornby have broken some law, then they are wrong in this case, but this all this anti-Hornby rhetoric is IMHO counter productive in the bigger picture of our hobby's long term future. I'm sorry, but are you are putting the long-term future of Hornby as more important than the long-term future of other companies? Hornby can do what they like to survive, legal or otherwise? IPR and the like are there for a reason and not to be just ignored when convenient. Assuming that the position between StudioCanal and Rapido is just as described, Hornby should hang their heads in shame and withdraw the model immediately. To not do so may cost Rapido sales now, in favour of a Hornby model that never actually reaches the market. I decided against purchasing any more Hornby models over their treatment of people with the tier system, just sticking with my one pre-order for an APT with Kernow. I came today to see how my self imposed embargo was going to impact me, all that has happened is my non-purchase of Hornby items has been reinforced. Roy 5 8 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben B Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 I'm waiting for a "Great St.Trinians Train Robbery" set, making the most of DCC to have a pair of Austerity tanks and a DEMU racing around a set-track layout 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Zunnan said: I wonder if Studio Canal will have something to say about their IP being used in this manner given they have contracted the IP elsewhere. You would hope so… 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pteremy Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 I logged on to RMweb this morning expecting to find something interesting and positive at this gloomy time of year, even if there wasn't anything in the announcements that I might want myself. But to be honest, and rather to my surprise, it has just made me feel really sad. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium RichardT Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Ben B said: I'm waiting for a "Great St.Trinians Train Robbery" set, making the most of DCC to have a pair of Austerity tanks and a DEMU racing around a set-track layout Absolutely. And how about a “The Flying Scotsman” set inspired by the 1929 Ray Milland feature, with the Railroad A3, and couple of Gresleys with a model Pauline Johnson figure clambering along the side of the carriages? And, being a silent film, no need for any sound chips! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flying_Scotsman_(1929_film) You know, given these obvious missing opportunities for other trains on film sets, it’s almost like Hornby aren’t actually serious about the concept, but are just using it as a fig leaf for something or other……. Edited January 10, 2022 by RichardT Fat fingers 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2022 A bit here from reelstreeets of the locations used in The Lady With A Lamp: https://www.reelstreets.com/films/lady-with-a-lamp-the-ready/ (Scroll down to Capture 22) 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 22 minutes ago, Ben B said: I'm waiting for a "Great St.Trinians Train Robbery" set, making the most of DCC to have a pair of Austerity tanks and a DEMU racing around a set-track layout Pudham? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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