Hornby to end the Thomas the Tank Engine range

[HonestTom]

I think the comment re Britt Allcroft refers to when Hornby obtained the licence in the mid 80's, Thomas wasn't anywhere near as popular as it then became, you could probably say Hornby initially helped increase it's popularity, along with the original TV series.

 

Exactly this. Hornby brought the range out in 1985, the TV series came out in 1984. That is to say, the rights were probably being negotiated before the TV series was even out. At the time, Thomas the Tank Engine was only known from this series of books that hadn't had a new entry to the series since 1972. There was no real reason to expect that it would be the success it was. Britt Allcroft did have a strong commitment to the integrity of the brand, which may in fact be one of the major keys to its success. But at the same time, Thomas wasn't a merchandising juggernaut at that point. It wasn't like there were dozens of companies mobbing them for the rights to produce Thomas toys.

 

As it turned out, of course, the series was a smash, and thereafter the producers were in more of a position of power. So they had more power of veto over things that they felt were potentially damaging to the brand.

Edited May 10, 2018 by HonestTom

[Steamport Southport]

That's the whole idea of purchasing rights....you control how it operates...

 

You wouldn't buy a car and then let people use it without permission....why would you do the same with IP rights.....its all about protection of your intellectual property.....lets say Thomas suffers a boiler explosion and injured lots of people, or starts following themes that wasn't in keeping with the brand.....the brand suffers so of course your going to protect it....

 

Thomas went from a bed time story to a money making machine end of story......pun intended.

 

As for the money that changed hands that's up to the seller isn't it....going on the car theme do you go to the car dealership i mentioned earlier and pay more for the car then you need to?

 

As a brand its day is done....... Good move by Hornby in my opinion....think back a few decades about the brands that have come and gone....had a resurgence and gone again.....the Gerry Anderson series spring to mind....

 

Eh?

 

If there was a boiler explosion then it would have absolutely nothing to do with whoever owns the rights to Thomas the Tank Engine but the Railway Accident Investigation Board, Health and Safety Executive or whatever they are called nowadays. Or even the BTP.

 

 

What I was talking about was heavy handed tactics by Britt Allcroft and her lawyers against what are charities, that demanded locomotives were renamed and repainted even though the Reverend Awdry had actually named them.

 

Including Thomas from the British Sugar Corporation. Named by Awdry in the 1970s and was always blue. They told them to take the nameplates off and repaint it, or give us money. If that's not despicable then I don't know what is.

 

http://www.peterboroughimages.co.uk/blog/thomas-at-work-at-british-sugar/

 

Here it is being named by the great man himself, well before Britt Allcroft was on the scene.

 

http://www.nvr.org.uk/thomas

 

 

 

 

Jason

[HonestTom]

Eh?

 

If there was a boiler explosion then it would have absolutely nothing to do with whoever owns the rights to Thomas the Tank Engine but the Railway Accident Investigation Board, Health and Safety Executive or whatever they are called nowadays. Or even the BTP.

 

 

What I was talking about was heavy handed tactics by Britt Allcroft and her lawyers against what are charities, that demanded locomotives were renamed and repainted even though the Reverend Awdry had actually named them.

 

Including Thomas from the British Sugar Corporation. Named by Awdry in the 1970s and was always blue. They told them to take the nameplates off and repaint it, or give us money. If that's not despicable then I don't know what is.

 

http://www.peterboroughimages.co.uk/blog/thomas-at-work-at-british-sugar/

 

Here it is being named by the great man himself, well before Britt Allcroft was on the scene.

 

http://www.nvr.org.uk/thomas

 

 

 

 

Jason

There was a similar issue with the Talyllyn Railway running their engines as their Skarloey Railway equivalents. Which I find particularly rich, given that the Skarloey Railway is entirely based on the Talyllyn. I believe they did eventually strike a deal, but I don't think that's what the good Rev had in mind when he wrote a book about a narrow gauge railway on Sodor.

 

(Interestingly, Christopher Awdry wrote Sir Handel, Peter Sam and Duncan's "visits" into Railway Series canon, which means that from an in-universe perspective, the producers were trying to deny the characters their own identity... how meta)

[Steamport Southport]

There was a similar issue with the Talyllyn Railway running their engines as their Skarloey Railway equivalents. Which I find particularly rich, given that the Skarloey Railway is entirely based on the Talyllyn. I believe they did eventually strike a deal, but I don't think that's what the good Rev had in mind when he wrote a book about a narrow gauge railway on Sodor.

 

(Interestingly, Christopher Awdry wrote Sir Handel, Peter Sam and Duncan's "visits" into Railway Series canon, which means that from an in-universe perspective, the producers were trying to deny the characters their own identity... how meta)

 

Yes. There were a few similar instances.

 

I agree that people should be able to gain money from their intellectual rights (especially when it was their idea). But there's no real need to be so heavy handed about it seeing as you are going to be making vast sums of money anyway.

 

 

 

Jason

[Mark Saunders]

Now with Bachmann and on their website!

[DavidM]

Now with Bachmann and on their website!

 

That's the G scale range which has been available in the UK for several years.

[Peter Crawford]

Hornby has got to the point where the prices are more or less in line with the relatively cheap end of the main modelling market, especially due to franchise license fees. Flying Scotsman's RRP is only the same, whilst one can get a massive loco like Cock o'The North for £5 less. A TTS Fitted 60163 costs a mere £135

[LNWR18901910]

It's like they say, all good things must come to an end. I mean, not everything can go on forever. It was nice to see an E2 back on Hornby's production market, even if it was painted a garish colour and had a face slapped on. Same goes for Hornby's only inner-cylinder 2-6-0 of a 3F although it was painted red and that got a face stuck on the smokebox door.

[ruggedpeak]

Or the ad was placed before the decision to stop TTE was taken and it was to late to cancel

Or they have a warehouse full of TTTE stock they want to liquidate without major discounting since these models cost not only the manufacturing but the licence fee as well.

[andyram]

Or they have a warehouse full of TTTE stock they want to liquidate without major discounting since these models cost not only the manufacturing but the licence fee as well.

 

 

From what I have heard that is spot on!

[LNWR18901910]

From what I have heard that is spot on!

Why not recycle some of the TTTE moulds and re-use them as different engines? The James model would be perfect as the G&SWR 403 'Austrian Goods' Class 2-6-0.

[John M Upton]

I think a part of the problem is that the ancient tooling used for the TTTE range is on the verge of being worn out and in need of investment which would have been on top of any licence renewal cost and let us not forget Hornby are a bit in the poo financially at the moment.

Edited June 25, 2018 by John M Upton

[Peter Crawford]

I just think that someone could step into the breach with: Appropriately-coloured decals/stickers while 3D printing suitable 'faces' to glue onto normal locos. This also teaches kids the link between the real train and the Thomas version.

[LNWR18901910]

I think a part of the problem is that the ancient tooling used for the TTTE range is on the verge of being worn out and in need of investment which would have been on top of any licence renewal cost and let us not forget Hornby are a bit in the poo financially at the moment.

You're right - motorizing a tender-driven chassis into a loco-driven chassis (James the Red Engine, for example) would be a challenge, if not, a nightmare. Anyone up to it? If say, then good luck.

Edited June 25, 2018 by LNWR18901910

[Jeff Smith]

I keep coming back to this thread even though it makes no difference to me what happens in the TTTE world.

 

Just been watching a few comparison videos here http://www.sodor-island.net/sifproductions/hornbybachmannreviews.html

 

It seems me that the Bachmann range is inferior in performance and more toylike, but cheaper and probably more suitable for young kids. Once Hornby goes away it will be interesting to see if Bachmann start selling in the UK.

 

It would also be interesting to know if Bachmann UK had a hand in the design or if it was purely a US effort?

[Thunderforge]

From what I've seen this is all a hoax, there are a number of spelling errors present (effecting rather than affecting and Audrey rather than Awdry etc) and there's nothing about it on their facebook page

It mentioned it on the Hornby site I’m afraid.

 

I grew up with Thomas, and now my two and four year olds watch it. They are much too young to play with Hornby stuff but we have tonnes of Take-N-Play and Trackmaster which suits their age group much better. By the time they’re old enough to understand fishplates and DC wiring and what to do when the blasted engine stalls for the umpteenth time, they’ll be well past Thomas and into more grown up things like er, Pokemon Go and memes.

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Thunderforge

[LNWR18901910]

I keep coming back to this thread even though it makes no difference to me what happens in the TTTE world.

 

Just been watching a few comparison videos here http://www.sodor-island.net/sifproductions/hornbybachmannreviews.html

 

It seems me that the Bachmann range is inferior in performance and more toylike, but cheaper and probably more suitable for young kids. Once Hornby goes away it will be interesting to see if Bachmann start selling in the UK.

 

It would also be interesting to know if Bachmann UK had a hand in the design or if it was purely a US effort?

Yes, it would. With a little luck, good ol' Bachmann themselves would release the range into the UK.

[LNWR18901910]

It mentioned it on the Hornby site I’m afraid.

 

I grew up with Thomas, and now my two and four year olds watch it. They are much too young to play with Hornby stuff but we have tonnes of Take-N-Play and Trackmaster which suits their age group much better. By the time they’re old enough to understand fishplates and DC wiring and what to do when the blasted engine stalls for the umpteenth time, they’ll be well past Thomas and into more grown up things like er, Pokemon Go and memes.

 

FDCDBCE6-F58C-4079-AEB4-7CFAFC876265.jpeg

I know how you feel. If Luke Skywalker learned the dying Jedi ways, then I too will have learned the dying hobby of model railways. 'Cos what with XBox generations and Instagram selfies and Twitter accounts and such, is it me or has the Island of Sodor really had its day?

 

I keep contemplating that myself and all we have left is Hornby Railroad. Bachmann Junior was discontinued and failed miserably, but it was nice to see Bachmann bring out their own Thomas models and re-use them like Hornby did with their 0-4-0 Thomas model. It's hard to let go of something that yopu enjoyed in your youth and became a huge part of you ever since. I know because I sometimes feel that way and for soem reason I have been feeling that way more often than I used to. I honestly can't think why.

 

Still, I can't let such a huge setback stop me from enjoying the things I do and neither should anyone else. Things will change and you can't slam on the brakes or try and change its course of direction. I know how tough it is to look with hope and confidence to look to the coming days, weeks, months and years ahead, but I'm proud to say that every one of us is Really Useful in our own way - me, you and everybody. We can actually make our own models based on Awdry's characters - who needs official licenced models when we can just make our own even from scratch?

[Wheatley]

 

Military modellers Airfix remains obsessed with a war that ended seventy years ago

 

My bold. The reason every single plastic kit range (not just Airfix) contains Spitfires, Messerschmidts and Dorniers is because they still sell by the bucketload, for all sorts of reasons. It's within living memory, those of us for whom it's just outside living memory were brought up on a diet of Warlord, Action Man and B&W war films on BBC2 in the afternoon, and from a modelling interest rather than nostalgia point of view it represents probably the most concentrated period of accelerated technological development ever, with more varieties of any particular subject than you could hope to cover in a single modelling lifetime. 

 

Anyway, a significant number of Airfix's new toolings have been Cold War - TSR2, NImrod, Victor, Valiant, Canberra, Harrier, Lightning, Phantom, Jet Provost, Gnat, Shackleton .... 

 

What amused me about the Hornby announcement was that in at least two of the mags this month, it's accompanied by a full page ad for ... er ... the Hornby Thomas range.  

Edited June 26, 2018 by Wheatley

[Hroth]

...

 

Still, I can't let such a huge setback stop me from enjoying the things I do and neither should anyone else. Things will change and you can't slam on the brakes or try and change its course of direction. I know how tough it is to look with hope and confidence to look to the coming days, weeks, months and years ahead, but I'm proud to say that every one of us is Really Useful in our own way - me, you and everybody. We can actually make our own models based on Awdry's characters - who needs official licenced models when we can just make our own even from scratch?

Its ok to make your own models for use and enjoyment in the privacy of your own home, but don't even dare to post images of your model online, get them into a magazine or exhibit them.  The IP Police will have the cease and desist letters out in a trice!

 

As Hornby are clearly trying to shift their Thomas stocks before their licence expires, what will happen to any unsold stock?

 

It might go to landfill, or perhaps Hattons will suddenly have a large collection of Thomas BARGAINS on offer......

[andyram]

Its ok to make your own models for use and enjoyment in the privacy of your own home, but don't even dare to post images of your model online, get them into a magazine or exhibit them.  The IP Police will have the cease and desist letters out in a trice!

 

As Hornby are clearly trying to shift their Thomas stocks before their licence expires, what will happen to any unsold stock?

 

It might go to landfill, or perhaps Hattons will suddenly have a large collection of Thomas BARGAINS on offer......

I am rather guessing Hornby will offer their stocks to the box shifters at a knockdown price. From what I understand, there is not not a landfill site big enough to take the left over stock.

[Phil Parker]

Its ok to make your own models for use and enjoyment in the privacy of your own home, but don't even dare to post images of your model online, get them into a magazine or exhibit them.  The IP Police will have the cease and desist letters out in a trice!

 

 

Only if you try to sell them commercially or make money out of the Thomas name in some way. If there was even a hint of truth in this, don't you think Mattel would be chasing down those people importing the Bachmann Thomas range into the UK?

 

Like it or not, "Thomas the Tank engine" is a brand that has been sold many times, first of all by the Awdry family. Mattel now own it having handed over a pile of cash. It's not wrong for them to protect the value of that brand - everyone else does it as all those who stuck VW logos on aftermarket trinkets have found to their cost. If they don't protect the brand then it's possible that courts will accept the argument that they don't care about it when they eventually do decide to reign things in.

 

In Thomas world, all those preserved railways wanted to run a Thomas day because it attracted the crowds and made them money. Why did the crowds come? Because of all the effort made by the brand owner producing a TV show and marketing the brand itself. Not an insignificant part of this will be policing the quality of some of the products produced under the brand. Lawyers aren't cheap, so this investment has to be recouped in some way - by licencing the name and limiting the number of lines who could use it at one time. If everyone offers a Thomas weekend at the same time, the brand value is diminished so there will be some restriction to keep things "special", which is what the preserved railway wants as it should lead to more people on the trains. Get it right, and everyone wins. 

 

Basically, if I own the IP and you want to make money out of it, then you need to pay me. Nothing wrong with that.

 

I suspect that Hornby has made a commercial decision - how much the models cost to make including the license fee vs how much income they generate. If they make no money from it, the answer is to stop doing it.

[PatB]

What I got out of those video comparisons was how nice the Bachmann Percy chassis is. It's actually got proper crossheads and slidebars, unlike the Hornby equivalent. Very interesting for prospective 0-16.5 loco builders.

[bike2steam]

I'm not sad at the loss of the Hornby range and really hope Bachmann pick up the UK distribution.

 

Given the greed of the name owners of 'Thomas', having priced the 'license' out of a falling market, I would be very surprised if Bachmann did.

[Jeff Smith]

I would put money on them doing so - unless the additional regional licence fee makes it uneconomic. They may have more clout than Hornby in negotiations though!