Disappointing Hornby LMS 'Refridgerator Van'

[The Johnster]

Delivered by postman (not blaming him, it's not his fault) this morning brand new direct from Hornby, R60051 LMS Refridgerator Van.  I was fooled by the misleading broadside on photo in the catalogue, which hides the considerable problems this van has.  Granted the price is low by modern standards, but so is the spec., very low!  The chassis is very crude, and while I might at a push learn to live with the moulded handbrake levers at this price level, the brake blocks are the worst I've ever seen. about a scale foot out of line with the wheels and in line with the tiebar, as is the rest of the brake linkage.  Buffers are the sort of thing we used to get with cheap RTR 50 years ago.  The couplings suggest that this is a very old tooling, in which case it should perhaps be in the Railroad range. though to be honest it is not even up to that low standard.  Having recently seen what Hornby can do with the recent Southern GLV, this is the obverse of the coin, in spades!!!

 

Another disappointment is the roof handrails, moulded and very obvious and overscale, and the end ladders; I haven't checked these yet but they look very chunky and oversized.  They are at least separate fittings, though.  The body tooling can be at least worked up; proper handrails and, if needed, replacement ladders.  But the chassis is fit only for landfill, and I would understand if they refused it at the tip because it isn't good enough to be rubbish.  Wheels can be rescued, but we need a complete replacement chassis, either Bachmann or Peco Parkside kit, which has a fairly significant impact on the cost, and possibly replacement buffers. 

 

Don't buy this except as a toy.

 

I wonder if Hornby can be persuaded to show 3/4 as opposed to side on views of their products in the catalogue.  In this case it would have preventing me wasting my money on this rubbish.  As it is, I've bought it now, so I'll try and work it up into something reasonable, but I am feeling cheated; a brand new van that is not in the Railroad range should not have these sorts of issues in this day and age.

 

I'm dubious about the livery as well.  It is well enough applied, but I am not sure that the 'A' in 'Insulmeat' would have been painted over the door retaining hook like that, and the '6' in the 6T load rating would be obscured by the label if the relief that it is printed over represents a label clip.  And it does not seem right that there is no tare given on the right hand side of the van either.  There is no vacuum cylinder represented so I am assuming the van is unfitted.

 

Hornby in their specifications for the van state the livery to be 'Private Owner', presumably in the sense that the LMS, who branded it 'VENT INSULMEAT LMS', are a private company and hence a private owner!  It smacks of haphazard, lazy, and inadequate research.

Edited October 9, 2021 by The Johnster

[micklner]

Its the ex Triang or very early Hornby model, based on a North Eastern Railway van .

 

Nothing whatever to with the LMS , the only giveaway in the photos I have seen, are the huge couplings. The body is quite good if worked on , the chassis is simply dire.

[brossard]

 

Is the body at least accurate?  If it is, this could be one of those aids to the scratchbuilder where you build a whole new chassis from bought in parts and upgrade the moulded details.

 

I did that with the dire Hornby 6 wheelers from decades ago by scratcbuilding chassis' and other upgrades.

 

 

I find it very satisfying to produce silk purses from pigs ears.

 

John

Edited September 6, 2022 by brossard

[The Johnster]

OK, so it's got more problems than I thought, not even an LMS van but an NER one.  I think my best option might be a repaint into BR unfitted grey livery, and an investigation into the availability of suitable NER chassis from RTR or kits.  I'm going with the concept that the body tooling is at least ballpark accurate, and am not unhappy with the moulded detail provided by it.

[melmerby]

 

26 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

 

I wonder if Hornby can be persuaded to show 3/4 as opposed to side on views of their products in the catalogue.  In this case it would have preventing me wasting my money on this rubbish.  As it is, I've bought it now, so I'll try and work it up into something reasonable, but I am feeling cheated; a brand new van that is not in the Railroad range should not have these sorts of issues in this day and age.

 

 

Try someone other than Hornby for picture, most take their own, eg Kernow:

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/69935/R60051-Hornby-Railroad-LMS-Refrigerated-Van---279770---Era-3

 

N.B. they call it "Railroad"

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by melmerby

[Nile]

Should really be in a Railroad box given the age of the tooling used here.

[John M Upton]

Upwards of fifteen sheets for that pile of rubbish?

 

I have two 1980's vintage ones in a dusty box somewhere, one claims to be an SR van, the other a Wimpy - Home of the Hamburger promo example.

 

I am astounded this model is still being churned out...

[The Johnster]

26 minutes ago, melmerby said:

 

Try someone other than Hornby for picture, most take their own, eg Kernow:

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/69935/R60051-Hornby-Railroad-LMS-Refrigerated-Van---279770---Era-3

 

N.B. they call it "Railroad"

 

That's a much better picture than the Hornby catalogue one, Kieth, and I will be doing that from now on with Hornby stuff. 

 

21 minutes ago, Nile said:

Should really be in a Railroad box given the age of the tooling used here.

 

In full fat box, no Railroad branding, though it looks from Kieth's post that it has at at least one time in it's career been in the Railroad range.  To be fair it is priced at a Railroadish level; I'm feeling disappointed, but not ripped off.  I got what I paid for, and am reasonably happy with the van above the solebars.

 

As a temporary measure to get it into traffic, I will replace the chassis with an LMS on and heavily weather the van, as well as putting proper handrails on the roof, and then research the correct NER chassis and how long these vans lasted in traffic.  I wanted to buy a van, not another project, oh, well, as Kurt Cobain said as he pulled the trigger, nevermind.

 

Worst comes to the worst, I've bought a £15.49 grounded van body!  At least the buffers are the correct height above the railhead, not a foregone conclusion with ex-Triang Hornby models.

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by The Johnster

[Steamport Southport]

I very rarely buy RTR wagons apart from recently tooled ones.

 

Those I do are in the sales when they can be handy to knock the postage over the minimum price for free postage.

 

 

This is what it's masquerading as. 

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/561569/janick_models_jm_lms10_10_ton_lms_refrigerated_van_plastic_kit/stockdetail.aspx

 

But I feel it's based on this and is part of the Retro models range.

 

https://collection.maas.museum/object/44034

 

 

 

Jason

[31A]

Originally these models were issued in authentic North Eastern Railway and LNER liveries, and as MickLNER has said, the body is quite accurate but would repay replacing the underframe with something better, possibly using Parkside parts (I think the real ones had wooden solebars), and also some detailing of the body, e.g. better ladders.  I don't know how long the real ones lasted, but I don't think I've ever seen a picture of one in BR livery, for example.  Sorry, not a brilliant photo - I took it in 2007!

 

[jwealleans]

Here's a before and after of one I did a little while ago.   Scratchbuilt underframe, new roof and brass ladders.  These were fitted vans; some had the ladders and ice boxes removed and were used on meat traffic.   Although a few made it through the war, I doubt there were more than penny numbers passed to BR and those wouldn't have lasted long

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by jwealleans

[Philou]

Interesting photo @jwealleans of your van though I note you say 'refrigerator' and @The Johnster says 'refridgerator' (bursts into song). Who is correct?

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

 

 

 

In full fat box, no Railroad branding,

 

 

That's one of the things with Hornby's marketing that really gets my goat.

e.g. Railroad and full range items mixed in sets.

IMHO anything other than recent toolings should be in the Railroad range and clearly defined as such.

We keep getting re-liveries of Airfix wagons appearing in the full range, these are now 50 years old

Edited October 9, 2021 by melmerby

[Steamport Southport]

1 minute ago, melmerby said:

That's one of the things with Hornby's marketing that really gets my goat.

e.g. Railroad an full range items mixed in sets.

IMHO anything other than recent toolings should be in the Railroad range and clearly nefined as such.

We keep getting re-liveries of Airfix wagons appearing in the full range, these are now 50 years old

 

 

Should have put Hornby Dublo on it and charged £50 then they'll all want one....

 

[The Johnster]

42 minutes ago, Philou said:

Interesting photo @jwealleans of your van though I note you say 'refrigerator' and @The Johnster says 'refridgerator' (bursts into song). Who is correct?

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

When I typed ‘refrigerator’ it looked wrong so I tried ‘refridgerator’ which looked better, but now you’ve put them in proximity it looks even wronger than refrigerator did before.  Jwealleans’version os the correct one, mine is wrong, it’s been that sort of day .

[micklner]

One modified to a LNER Meat van. New underframe. Roof Ice Boxes and End Ladders removed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by micklner

[The Johnster]

Something like this, in late LNER livery, is probably the best I'll be able to manage as damage limitation, Mick, as it seems that very few of these vans survived in the original form and even as altered like this would have been rare in the early BR days that my period frame incorporates (nominally 1948-58.  Pity, because I liked the mustard yellow cod LMS livery.  This should be a warning tale to those of us like me who are prone to ordering stuff that looks nice without checking it out first!  I'm now not even convinced that the mustard livery is correct for an LMS van if this was an LMS van...

 

Parkside do a 10' LNER underframe that will probably pass muster, and a set of decent buffers will finish the job off.  Thanks to Jwealleans, I now know that they were fitted and XP rated. 

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

That's one of the things with Hornby's marketing that really gets my goat.

e.g. Railroad and full range items mixed in sets.

IMHO anything other than recent toolings should be in the Railroad range and clearly defined as such.

We keep getting re-liveries of Airfix wagons appearing in the full range, these are now 50 years old

Preaching to the choir here, Melmers old bean, especially after today!  We are also getting 60 year old GW clerestories, the wrong length, wrong bogies, wrong underframe details, and no interiors, though to be fair these are Railroad.  The 40+ year old Airfix A30 auto trailer isn't, though...

[eastwestdivide]

4 hours ago, brossard said:

find it very satisfying to produce silk purses from pigs ears.

I thought pigs' ears was where the sausages came from?

[Fat Controller]

When this model was released, it had the brake lever at the left-hand end; I think the pattern maker had been given a drawing printed back to front....

[Oldddudders]

Refrigerator but commonly fridge. 

 

Betjeman had a story about one. I think this was before the war when he was an agony-uncle on some publication. Some distraught reader wrote in saying that "The man in the next flat has an enormous frig that goes on all night!" Some have it tough. eh? 

[Steamport Southport]

Could always take it on holiday to Ireland....

 

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

It'd be a good bit more use on a trip around Ireland than it is on the layout!  But I've made a start; removed the ladders, cut off the roof handrails, and filled the ladder holes with Milliput prior to repainting the body in late LNE bauxite/brown livery.  It'll make a nice running mate for the Baccy van I have in this livery... 

 

I will need to source a pair of those cast iron signs that the LNE had for Meat, Fish, Fruit, and so on that went on the doors, for Meat in this case.  I'll wait until Wednesday, pension day, to order the Peco Parkside 10' LNER chassis, which may not be correct for the van as it would have had an NER chassis with, I believe, wooden solebars (the Hornby chassis doesn't have this), but I think this is a case for Rule 1; there is a limit to how much I'm going to bother with this van, and, again, will be content with a 'layout' model.  It did occur to me that I could try to work up the existing mess below the solebars, by cutting out the tie bar that wasn't there in the HMRS photos of the real vans, and the brake blocks and linkage, leaving just the axleboxes, and then cobbling up something with the brake pieces from the kit parts box, but that would not address the moulded brake lever.

[BernardTPM]

Model first appeared in 1984 in NE livery. Ironically, some versions have a 'wooden' chassis with brake shoes in line with the wheels (see 1986 version), so better than the current one.

Edited October 10, 2021 by BernardTPM

[Steamport Southport]

Available before then though.

 

ISTR this one from 1982. 

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=201

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/415486/hornby_r015canterbury_po_canterbury_lamb_van_pre_owned_imperfect_box/stockdetail.aspx

 

 

 

Jason