RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted August 2, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2016 I'm not convinced demand for P4 is as big as being suggested. It's not a ready to run (rtr) group. It's not in the lads & dads market. Its not a commercial off the shelf (COTS) product. P4 is a niche. Most people will have a 00 layout, with varying amounts of scenery and a huge amount of imagination they use to "play" with. P4 is for specific modellers looking to fulfil a certain level of modelling detail and accuracy. If support P4 increases the costs of 00 Sales to support it, then 00 sales will fall. Which one earns more revenue? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 I'm not convinced demand for P4 is as big as being suggested. It's not a ready to run (rtr) group. It's not in the lads & dads market. Its not a commercial off the shelf (COTS) product. P4 is a niche. Most people will have a 00 layout, with varying amounts of scenery and a huge amount of imagination they use to "play" with. P4 is for specific modellers looking to fulfil a certain level of modelling detail and accuracy. If support P4 increases the costs of 00 Sales to support it, then 00 sales will fall. Which one earns more revenue? My original question was about EM. Once upon a time it involved replacing OO gauge steamroller wheels, but modern OO wheels are fine as they are, and just need moving further apart. Compensation isn't necessary, so it can be a simple and straightforward job to convert OO RTR, if the OO chassis is made in such a way that it can be done. Later this week I'll probably be shoving the wheels out a bit on a Hornby Pannier. The detail and accuracy of the Hornby chassis isn't exactly brilliant, and I'll be building a new chassis for another pannier, but it will be fine for what I want this one for. But the chassis on new designs like the J94 have so much detail that it seems a waste of time and money to completely replace them. For P4, where new wheels are needed, and compensation essential, it's a different matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted August 2, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2016 Out of interest, I wonder if SLW would be prepared to reveal the % split of OO, EM and P4 Class 24s they have sold. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightbe Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 For P4, where new wheels are needed, and compensation essential, it's a different matter. I wouldn't go so far as to say "essential". More like "desirable". I wouldn't think to add compensation to a straight RTR conversion. Too much work and more likely than not the axles are true anyway. If I was building a new chassis OTOH I most certainly would add suspension (mainly because compensation is far too complicated and I don't understand it). Quentin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Historically, the old Bachmann/Mainline chassis were impossible to convert to EM or P4 without replacing the entire chassis. Hornby's course wheel standards, even if they could be pushed out, were crude enough to defeat the point of conversion to EM. Those I saw that were given finer wheels, where equally poorer runners as a result. Again only a full chassis change to say Comet and often a good dose of detailing up the body produced a worthy result. The easiest was probably Lima, being in the main mostly diesel, using standard wheels and gears across the entire range. A wheel set for one class would suit several. You might have to space the bogie sides out more, but hardly a problem. I'm not sure how most modern super detailed copes. It seems that Bachmann and Hornby have switched to NRM axle standards making conversion possible, though you still need gearing etc to mesh in with it and naturally, the brake gear is often (not always) set for OO distances. If you cannot get the gearing right, running becomes instantly terrible. I suspect again diesels from Bachmann, Hornby and Heljan are the easiest to convert (and SLW, no conversion at all if you got your order correct). Steam locos present larger problems with more wheel types, bogies that can interface with cylinders etc and so on but here anyone pushing the boat - or rather wheels - out will doubtless want a model is finer all round. Yet you can still buy comet chassis if you really want a great running model in P4. Personally, if I had time to do P4 (and a much smaller fleet), I would go for high detailed hand built stuff in order to ensure that quality is 100% throughout, of course here I'd probably just switch to 1/100th scale instead (an offshoot of TT). As always, if market demand exists, conversion sets will eventually appear even for a DJM J94. Naturally they have to wait to see what needs to be done before producing any such set. Dapol's J94 actually came with an EM conversion set (never sold when Hornby took it over). DJMs is looking for something much finer, both in build and running which probably means the current wheel sets are not designed for it and vice versa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Historically, the old Bachmann/Mainline chassis were impossible to convert to EM or P4 without replacing the entire chassis. That's a little misleading. The EMGS did (They may still do) wheel/axle conversions for some Bachmann split frame loco's. The J39 conversion is one that springs readily to mind, for me. The Dapol J94 EM conversion was a bit of an enigma. You received in the box a full set of un-assembled replacement wheels, coupling rods, crankpins, gears & extended axles. The cost of all these extra bits was absorbed into the recommended retail price but the only parts that were required was the three extended axles. The spare wheels where identical yet their pizza cutter flange had to be reduced to run through 1 mm flangeways. It was a brave effort, but it probably would have been more successful if a little more thought had gone into the conversion parts as supplied. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecheesemiester Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Yeah. congrats on your first DJM only model Dave. i am not supposed to be buying more train until i sell some old ones, but the mech navvies J94 is seriously tempting! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Looks very nice debating whether to get a "ROBERT" or an LNER version? Any ETA on the LNER versions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted August 7, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 7, 2016 Are Hattons still unpacking the Army ones as it still says pre-order? additionally do we have an 'exploded photo' so I can guess what sound chip will fit ; From the website . . . The first arrivals are: J9401 – Austerity 0-6-0ST “Robert” in NCB Bold Colliery lined green J9402 – Austerity 0-6-0ST 71515 in Mech Navvies maroon J9407 – Austerity 0-6-0ST No 4 in NCB Backworth Colliery lined black J9408 – Austerity 0-6-0ST 98 “Royal Engineer” in Army green Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted August 7, 2016 Author Share Posted August 7, 2016 Are Hattons still unpacking the Army ones as it still says pre-order? additionally do we have an 'exploded photo' so I can guess what sound chip will fit ; From the website . . . The first arrivals are: J9401 – Austerity 0-6-0ST “Robert” in NCB Bold Colliery lined green J9402 – Austerity 0-6-0ST 71515 in Mech Navvies maroon J9407 – Austerity 0-6-0ST No 4 in NCB Backworth Colliery lined black J9408 – Austerity 0-6-0ST 98 “Royal Engineer” in Army green I think, but dont take this as gospel, that Hattons have started sending out the Royal Engineers version. might be worth giving them a ring tomorrow? cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted August 7, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 7, 2016 Thanks Dave, I've checked my account and the pre order is still there so I'll leave it a few days as all the account details are correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hippo Posted August 7, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 7, 2016 Hi Dave. I have a couple already....and some others on order. I love them. The people down my local club are also really impressed as well. I personally think your on to a winer. However could you do some exploded diagrams so we know how to strip them down, 1 of my 3 struggles with insul frog points and I would like to have a look at the pickups on that one but am a bit unsure where to start. Also how about some 'how to' vids on you tube, or maybe in conjuction with BRM (thier free dvd) on fitting sound and stripping them down. Keep up the great work Thanks Owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted August 7, 2016 Author Share Posted August 7, 2016 Hi Dave. I have a couple already....and some others on order. I love them. The people down my local club are also really impressed as well. I personally think your on to a winer. However could you do some exploded diagrams so we know how to strip them down, 1 of my 3 struggles with insul frog points and I would like to have a look at the pickups on that one but am a bit unsure where to start. Also how about some 'how to' vids on you tube, or maybe in conjuction with BRM (thier free dvd) on fitting sound and stripping them down. Keep up the great work Thanks Owen Hi Owen, Thanks for the posting . Strangely enough I had the exact same thought process as you about 2 weeks ago. I've decided to do a 'how to' on you tube and put a link to each on my web site. However other things and the need to grow my nails after recent biting over the J94 delivery (after all it was my first proper DJM funded model) has left me with stumps only a mother could love. However I should be in a position sometime later this week to do some 'how to's' for each loco and do something on my site accordingly . I'm also going to get the 'library' going. Which is a set of pages showing each model, product code, picture and date of going on sale, as I think this could be informative for all. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted August 7, 2016 Author Share Posted August 7, 2016 Hi Dave. I have a couple already....and some others on order. I love them. The people down my local club are also really impressed as well. I personally think your on to a winer. However could you do some exploded diagrams so we know how to strip them down, 1 of my 3 struggles with insul frog points and I would like to have a look at the pickups on that one but am a bit unsure where to start. Also how about some 'how to' vids on you tube, or maybe in conjuction with BRM (thier free dvd) on fitting sound and stripping them down. Keep up the great work Thanks Owen The loco has no pickups by the way. Try cleaning some of the blackening off the tread, as this might help. I generally find all my loco's ( in N gauge but the same principle) get better the more they are run due to them self cleaning the blackening off the treads. HTH Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecheesemiester Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Hatton said on their Youtube channel that the Royal engineers models were missing the nameplates so they were waiting for them to arrive before sending them out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ryde-on-time Posted August 8, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 8, 2016 Just had an e-mail from Hattons to say the picking list has been printed for Royal Engineers so not long to wait now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Would love one of these, as they do look superb.I was going to put myself down for the Army Green example, but I'm a little unsure now, and will wait until they arrive - if there's none left, then so be it.Noted that the green on the sample on Hattons website (https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/J9408_3117182_Qty1_3.JPG) appears quite a bit lighter than that on the 'Colour layout' (https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/mediafiles/j9408_colour_layout.pdf). In addition, the condensing pipe(?) is painted green, while the sub-frame pipework is finished in Brass. On the 'Colour Layout' the condensing pipe is Black and so is the sub-frame pipework. Ultimate nit-picking of the highest demand, I admit, but I feel the 'Colour Layout' example looks so much smarter than the delivered sample. All else fails, I'll purchase one of Dave's BR examples. Regards, Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ryde-on-time Posted August 8, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 8, 2016 Would love one of these, as they do look superb. I was going to put myself down for the Army Green example, but I'm a little unsure now, and will wait until they arrive - if there's none left, then so be it. Noted that the green on the sample on Hattons website (https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/J9408_3117182_Qty1_3.JPG) appears quite a bit lighter than that on the 'Colour layout' (https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/mediafiles/j9408_colour_layout.pdf). In addition, the condensing pipe(?) is painted green, while the sub-frame pipework is finished in Brass. On the 'Colour Layout' the condensing pipe is Black and so is the sub-frame pipework. Ultimate nit-picking of the highest demand, I admit, but I feel the 'Colour Layout' example looks so much smarter than the delivered sample. All else fails, I'll purchase one of Dave's BR examples. Regards, Matt Photos do seem to show the loco on the Isle of wight with green (condensing?) pipe so the model does seem to be correct such as here https://locoyard.com/heritage-railways/gallery/various/war-department/#jp-carousel-9015 The brass pipework does look a bit bright on the model compared to the real thing - which looks to be dull brass rather than black Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephyrman Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Making an Isle Of Wight one is easy enough to do yourself. Nameplates are or were available. Just get a whitemetal Westinghouse pump. Make the bracket from platic card some plastic rod for air tubes and a white metal air res tank. Simples Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 I have just received Robert and the NCB black models from Hattons, they look stunning. Once I get around to fitting hte DCC decoders and running them in I will doubtless paint the screw heads visible in the funnels matt black as they catch the light in my layout room. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted August 10, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2016 Royal Engineer was waiting when I got home First impressions are very good, nice box and well packed. It looks lovely so went straight on the rollers for testing. Distinctly lumpy and quite noisy in reverse was the initial thought but as the instructions note this too I pressed on with running in. 30 mins later it was smooth although still a bit noisy. Two hours later and she's very smooth and much quieter So only things to do are tone down the pipe work, tone down the white buffers, fit kadees and work out if my favoured loksound decoder will fit in the smokebox Only thing I'd say is to increase the suggested running in time to at least 30 mins each way or some might send them back thinking it's a problem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted August 10, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2016 I've measured the boiler cavity and it seems to be about 30mm deep usable space and wide enough for a loksound micro 6 pin decoder and thin speaker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleng Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 I've measured the boiler cavity and it seems to be about 30mm deep usable space and wide enough for a loksound micro 6 pin decoder and thin speaker. I believe that there was meant to be space in the bunker for a Sugar Cube speaker? You might want to use the space in the boiler to add some weight, I found I could tuck a DCCconcepts 6 pin decoder and stay alive In the boiler and still have enough space for some lead to get a bit more weight over the front wheels. Regards Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainman119 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 When can we expect to see NCB No. 65 in Yellow?? It has been a long wait for these beauties. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 The NCB J94's arrive in the UK on the 28th August (Sunday) apparently. They will take about 5-7 days to get de-vanned and go to the distributor. I'll be co tacting each one of you that has ordered to get and process your credit card details. Each one will be shipped within 24/48 hours of payment. Hope this helps? Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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