Horsetan Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 ....Oh, I don't know where the idea of me being anti P4 seems to be coming from...... How outrageous. You're anti-everything! Hang on a minute.....you're not Jeremy Corbyn in disguise, are you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 From a trader's perspective, I know that some found the show below par while others very pleased. Saturday was rather slow and the attendance seemed poor, from a subjective view. Sunday however was much better and for the trader I help, the weekend overall was good but not exceptional. It would have been even better had one customer who asked for a fairly substantial order be brought to the show turned up to collect it. Who knows what affects attendance? Some I spoke to on Sunday pursued other interests on Saturday, as the weather had taken a turn or the better. A "general" exhibition probably wouldn't have pulled in the local casual visitors either, as such pleasant weather usually favours outdoor attractions. As for the show being rather exclusive, I spoke to modellers who follow 2mm and 7mm scales as well as various 4mm gauges. Several were relatively new to the hobby (or starting again) and came to see and learn what they could achieve beyond the realms of RTR. The S4 website has a shows section that includes photo retrospectives from previous years, so if you are in the least interested there is no reason not to have a good idea of what to expect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 But what makes scaleforum different from ExpoEM? Is there a difference? Should there be one? What is the selling point of Scaleforum? What will attract more people to the show? Scaleforum is the member's event, that's also open and welcoming to non members, for the Scalefour Society, and ExpoEM is a similar event for the EM Gauge Society. The Broad Gauge Society do something similar but much smaller, as do lots of other specialist societies. I've never been a member of the S4 Society, but was an EMGS member for many years. The EMGS supports 18.2 and 18.83, and my P4 standard modelling is covered by the Broad Gauge Society, so I've never had a reason to be an S4 member. But it's good that I can go to any of their events. Having a variety of finescale shows may be a marketing problem when trying to attract non members, who may have only a small interest, but they're primarily events for members of specialist societies, so need to specialise, even if it confuses people are not involved in that particular speciality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted September 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 21, 2015 The only criticism I have of EM North is the monsoon that started a few minutes before I got off the bus and lasted until I got into the show, at least. Apart from that, no grumbles. Enough traders purveying the items I wish to purchase to separate me from me money. No grumbles about Scalefourm, apart from getting close to saturation point as far as trade and what was left of the filthy lucre. Traders please take note if you want to separate me from the folding stuff you need to have more pre 1925 Great Western Loco and Coach kits on your stand also pre-group wagon kits, plus the additional bits and pieces. It sounds like Brassmasters should do alright at some point next year when they produce the Duke and Bulldogs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Regarding Charlie Petty's comments: I think a lot of traders forget that it's not just the sales they make on the day, but the sales in the coming weeks and months. Charlie demonstrated some really good DCC-S stuff. I don't have anything to put it in nor run on at the moment (as I said at the time) but when I do need them, he'll be my first point of call and thus will be making a sale off the back of the show. The same applies to Branchlines. I bought some wheel sets- couldn't have spent more than £60 there- and yet he gave me so much advice and information and was happy to talk about his excellent kits, tools and parts. I know that come next pay day I am going to swap my card number for a Nu Cast Sentinel car plus more wheel sets. So that'll be another £150 and undoubtedly more ongoing. So again did I spend £60 or will I spend hundreds as a result of his appearance?C&L My first visit to their stand a year or so ago involved several minutes of questions and perhaps £50 of sales. I shudder to think how much I've spent there over the past year. Again- what sales has Pete made from me as a result of that one show? Likewise there was one trader there that just doesn't seem bothered. If you have the reference number and your cash he'll talk to you. Anything complicated and he doesn't want to know. Indeed, it is only the fact that his main rival is expensive and takes 6 months to deliver that keeps him going. Surely I cannot be the only person who does this? Perhaps if we buy something as a result of a previous show we should tell the trader that so they know the true worth of their attendance. I certainly ask MY customers where they learned of our products and services so we know where to target our marketing budget. Derek Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 as a committed 00 modeller, is it not time to consider amalgamating the EM and Scalefour societies and supporting all 18mm+ track standards , a sort of P4 - coarse. have one major exhibition , one stores ..... please no contract hits on me ok......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I think there may be factions on both sides against that idea.... Dave Franks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ullypug Posted September 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 21, 2015 Had a very pleasant time doing the 'Starting in P4' demo this weekend. Was able to chat to a few folks and impart what little knowledge I have (some conversations were quite short...). Thanks to all who listened and pretended to be interested. All in all it seemed a very good show with a good mix of layouts, traders and demonstrators. From where I was sitting, the show seemed a little quieter than usual on the Saturday but busier on the Sunday, but as others have said the hall can swallow people. Only downside with the demo was I didn't get much of a chance to have a look round until the last hour on Sunday. It was nice to see what DRAG were up to and Horrabridge has the makings of something rather good. Splashed the cash on various etched brass wagon chassis kits and other bits and pieces. It's surprising how it all mounts up. Personally I hope future shows follow the same pattern. I see it as a members show put on for its membership, as I do with Expo EM and the other specialist shows like Telford, the 2mmFS shows or ExpoNG. I'd probably go to these if they were closer to me but they're not, so I don't. I guess I make more of an effort for the societies I belong to and suspect others do the same. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate good modelling when I see it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 as a committed 00 modeller, is it not time to consider amalgamating the EM and Scalefour societies and supporting all 18mm+ track standards , a sort of P4 - coarse. have one major exhibition , one stores ..... please no contract hits on me ok......... There is a former RMWeb participant who, despite being unashamedly a OO modeller, joined the S4 Society and then set about trying to undermine it, particularly by proposing that Scaleforum should be reduced to a one-day show only. We don't hear much from him these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I think there may be factions on both sides against that idea.... ...and in the same breath I (we) know a fair few that are members of both societies. The détente seems to have improved immeasurably over the last few years. I don't think you would have seen the joint type skills days happening ten years ago. For what it's worth I think the market can stand the four 4mm wide gauge expos every 12 months. Five, if I include Wells. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Junction mad as a committed P4 modeller, I wonder is it not time to consider merging 00 with N as they are both using a very narrow track. (if I used emoticons I'd have put a smiley/laughing one there). (equally now hiding from hit squad) Horsetan, prey tell who was the chap who did that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 For what it's worth I think the market can stand the four 4mm wide gauge expos every 12 months. Five, if I include Wells. P What's wide about them? Or is asking that question likely to lead to the topic being locked? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Regarding Charlie Petty's comments: I think a lot of traders forget that it's not just the sales they make on the day, but the sales in the coming weeks and months. Charlie demonstrated some really good DCC-S stuff. I don't have anything to put it in nor run on at the moment (as I said at the time) but when I do need them, he'll be my first point of call and thus will be making a sale off the back of the show. I'm sure that's true, but from what I saw and heard (from in front of and behind) the trade stands, its those traders who rarely if ever come out to play, or who's mail order performance might not be the most consistent seemed to do well at Scalefourum. Those traders who do still make the effort to tour, and who's mail order is reliable, seemed to be seeing a quiet time, presumably because the buying public expect their wares to be available 'later'. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I think a lot of traders forget that it's not just the sales they make on the day, but the sales in the coming weeks and months. Something I have said many a time on RMWeb - if the trader interacts well with the prospective customer and most the vast majority do (with a few notable exceptions) then it should be more about promoting their product than simple notching up a sale. Perhaps if we buy something as a result of a previous show we should tell the traderAn excellent idea. As seen previously at Scaleforum, on such and such a layout, as seen on RMWeb. As well as "I came back because I built one of your kits and enjoyed it so much I want another." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 What's wide about them? Or is asking that question likely to lead to the topic being locked? Never in the field of Railway Modelling was so much conflict caused by the mere mention of the word width. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Anything less than 28.08mm is narrow to me anyway! 18.83 and 18.2 are narrow gauge, and 16.5 is only fit for 7mm narrow narrow gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Porcy Mane: "Never in the field of railway modelling was so much conflict caused by the mere mention of width" If we're sticking with Sir Winston's speeches then I would add of Scaleforum 15:"And if the world of proper P4 modelling should last for one thousand, eight hundred and eighty three years- this will be their finest finescale hour." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 as a committed 00 modeller, is it not time to consider amalgamating the EM and Scalefour societies and supporting all 18mm+ track standards , a sort of P4 - coarse. have one major exhibition , one stores ..... please no contract hits on me ok......... As a member of both the EMGS and S4Society, it is clear that they both take a slightly different approach to running their societies for the benefit of their members. You may be more comfortable with one approach or the other, but both pursue "excellence" in 4mm modelling and if you model in that scale, irrespective of gauge, membership of one or both is worthwhile. As a committed OO modeller, perhaps your question should be "why isn't there a national society representing the interests of the OO gauge modeller that has the high profile that the EMGS or S4Soc. has?" Despite the DOGAs's efforts, it seems that they can't get the same level of support from the OO modeller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 As a committed OO modeller, perhaps your question should be "why isn't there a national society representing the interests of the OO gauge modeller that has the high profile that the EMGS or S4Soc. has?" Despite the DOGAs's efforts, it seems that they can't get the same level of support from the OO modeller. good idea, but 00 modellers are far too eclectic a bunch to be herded into " societies ", and we're more handsome as well , but as you well know 00 is bedevilled by RTR issues thats the problem but seriously EM and its p4 are really offshoots of each other , to mix up a history a bit, they all contain modellers trying to basically achieve the same thing, I still cant see why a mega-union wouldn't benefit everyone , but hey `i realise the issues just wasting time in rmweb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 ....Horsetan, prey tell who was the chap who did that? He went under the ID "Metropolitan" and developed a reputation for building locos in record time. That was another aim of his: to take loco kits back to 1970s standards, OO only. No provision for EM or P4. He didn't like today's etched kits, particularly not Finney. ... EM and its p4 are really offshoots of each other , to mix up a history a bit, they all contain modellers trying to basically achieve the same thing.... I see similarities with political party history in the Republic of Ireland: the two main parties grew out of the original Sinn Fein. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 You have jerked a memory there, Horsetan. Metropolitan used to help with the bring and buy at Scaleforum and IIRC got upset over some form-filling issue last year. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 as a committed P4 modeller, I wonder is it not time to consider merging 00 with N as they are both using a very narrow track. Wrong - 'N scale' 1:160 with 9mm track is pretty much spot on. It's at the 'N gauge' scale of 1:148 that things start going a little out of kilter although nothing like the OO/4mm 16.5mm track gauge, but then many 2mm 1:152 finescale layouts (with 9.42mm track) use 1:148 scale rolling stock. . . . . ;-) G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 good idea, but 00 modellers are far too eclectic a bunch to be herded into " societies ", and we're more handsome as well , but as you well know 00 is bedevilled by RTR issues thats the problem but seriously EM and its p4 are really offshoots of each other , to mix up a history a bit, they all contain modellers trying to basically achieve the same thing, I still cant see why a mega-union wouldn't benefit everyone , but hey `i realise the issues just wasting time in rmweb Societies in this context are voluntary, so nobody gets "herded". Like EM, P4 and S4 (as well as NG options), OO is a just another version of 4mm:ft scale so why not one overall society? People seek different things from and approaches to their hobby and where a shared interest arises, then some choose to get together to further that interest as in the EMGS, etc. Given your reference to RTR "issues", then it would surely seem sensible for those that follow the OO route to get together to resolve them. The DOGA seems too be an attempt to draw OO enthusiast together, bet without much apparent success. Ironic too, that OO modellers probably constitute the majority of local model railway club membership, so the inclination to join the herd seems to exist strongly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I think there may be factions on both sides against that idea.... Dave Franks One might be correct in that statement... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Never in the field of Railway Modelling was so much conflict caused by the mere mention of the word width. P Are we talking sausage again here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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