RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted August 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 16, 2017 Things might be a-stirring again... Keep taking the tablets...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 16, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 16, 2017 Well, during an unsettled night of insomnia, an eccentric idea about how to power the PSMT train evolved into a practical solution. A quick check with Simon and the PSMT is now my 4th Project in the cameo competition. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham456 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Stu and other people haveing mad thoughts........ I have wondered if you made the rail from copper clad double sided paxolin as the rail web, with a running surface of some sort stuck on top, could you have a pair of cats whisker pick ups running eather side of the rail,sorting out the one rail positive/negative problem, the shape of the rail would keep the whiskers in the channels........over to you I am not going down that line....hopefully I am not mad enough. burriip, ding, fruit loop Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 16, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 16, 2017 Stu and other people haveing mad thoughts........ I have wondered if you made the rail from copper clad double sided paxolin as the rail web, with a running surface of some sort stuck on top, could you have a pair of cats whisker pick ups running eather side of the rail,sorting out the one rail positive/negative problem, the shape of the rail would keep the whiskers in the channels........over to you I am not going down that line....hopefully I am not mad enough. burriip, ding, fruit loop Oh, you think that's a mad idea, the next plan is even more outrageously weird than the reed switches one was. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham456 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Oh, you think that's a mad idea, the next plan is even more outrageously weird than the reed switches one was. O ! God! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 16, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 16, 2017 Oh, you think that's a mad idea, the next plan is even more outrageously weird than the reed switches one was. String? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 16, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 16, 2017 String? Yes ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham456 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 String? Naw been suggested before ....the answer won't be that simple where's the fun in that It won't be batteries Radio control Live steam....actuly..well it might be Biro wooden push along version.........simples! Very big magnet! Who knows but Stu...... Awaits with bated breath next instalments Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 16, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 16, 2017 Naw been suggested before ....the answer won't be that simple where's the fun in that It won't be batteries Radio control Live steam....actuly..well it might be Biro wooden push along version.........simples! Very big magnet! Who knows but Stu...... Awaits with bated breath next instalments Anybody remember the Irisville and Castle Lorraine layout from the Railway Modeller in about 1966? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham456 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 String ! Remember a long time ago I did recommend swish curtain track! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted August 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2017 String ! Remember a long time ago I did recommend swish curtain track! Stubby doesn't do 'swish'. 'Flush' is more his style. As he carries on round the bend..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Patiala monorail now in operation at the National Rail Museum in Chanakyapuri, New Delhi - see http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/riding-on-century-old-patiala-monorail/526791.html and https://www.globalrailnews.com/2018/01/11/108-year-old-rubber-tyred-monorail-system-re-opened-in-india/ 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 The irony is that in 3 years living in India, I never got to visit the museum - MrsD did, and brought me a tie. A very nice tie, to be fair, but, honestly, a tie. I did get to play trains at DLW Varanasi, so perhaps I should not complain too much. best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 11, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2018 The irony is that in 3 years living in India, I never got to visit the museum - MrsD did, and brought me a tie. A very nice tie, to be fair, but, honestly, a tie. I did get to play trains at DLW Varanasi, so perhaps I should not complain too much. best Simon I've still got the tie I wore on my wedding day - and it still fits !! As for the PSMT model, I have plans to re-start this project in the near-ish future. No, honest, I do, really. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted January 11, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2018 And it will be ready to bring to Taunton, of course!!!???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 11, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2018 Er....., let me get back to you on that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JCL Posted January 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2018 I don't know about anyone else, but every time this comes up in my list my heart skips a beat. Have you seen this btw? https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=84s&v=ezhvFAY-kBM 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted January 11, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2018 I don't know about anyone else, but every time this comes up in my list my heart skips a beat. Have you seen this btw? https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=84s&v=ezhvFAY-kBM Dashed clever! but what happens when you need it to stop at a station. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Gyro... It goes, even when the wheels don’t, so it won’t fall over like a motorbike would. And it can go backwards, I don’t fancy trying that on a bike... Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 11, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2018 Patiala monorail now in operation at the National Rail Museum in Chanakyapuri, New Delhi - see http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/riding-on-century-old-patiala-monorail/526791.html and https://www.globalrailnews.com/2018/01/11/108-year-old-rubber-tyred-monorail-system-re-opened-in-india/ Great to see. When I was there six years ago it was looking very sorry for itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 11, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2018 Gyro... It goes, even when the wheels don’t, so it won’t fall over like a motorbike would. And it can go backwards, I don’t fancy trying that on a bike... Best Simon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyro_monorail 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) Gyro... It goes, even when the wheels don’t, so it won’t fall over like a motorbike would. And it can go backwards, I don’t fancy trying that on a bike... Best Simon The logic of monorails has always seemed very suspect to me, gyroscopic monorails doubly so. Tthe need for a couple of contra-rotating gyros in every vehicle would be a constant power drain, a source of extra maintenance costs, and a large addition to the unladen (tare) weight of each vehicle so either reducing their revenue load or increasing the weight of rail needed to support them. I can see some logic in the Ewing system, as used on the Patiala, for slow speed roadside tramways (and am looking forward to seeing Stubby's model of it working) but it's interesting that though Siemens came up with a system based on the same principle for electric towing railways for canals, the single such railway brought into commercial service in Germany on the Teltow Canal near Berlin and the very extensive system used on about a thousand miles* of canals in North and East France used fairly conventional narrow gauge railways, mostly metre gauge but 600mm in Alsace-Lorraine, (more about this and the Siemens tractors in post 248 on page 20 and 254 on page 11 of this topic) Siemens electric towing tractor on a test line laid on the Finow Canal in Prussia *1047 route kms of metre gauge towing railways operated by C.G.T.V.N. plus some hundreds of kilometres of 600mm operated by Traction de l'Est in Alsace-Lorraine. The whole system stretched from near Dunkerque to Mulhouse and the Swiss border with several branches. Edited January 12, 2018 by Pacific231G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 DAvid, likewise, but the 0-1-0 is splendidly silly and IMO deserves a prize. I think that the choice of a railway as a towing means alongside a canal is a little bizarre, certainly once IC engined tractors became commonplace. The provision of a normally-paved road, with a guide rail to which the driver could engage a automatic steering mechanism would seem cheaper to build, cheaper to operate, and more flexible. The great advantage of railways over roads is the lowered rolling resistance, but that offers no benefit when the load is floating, and the tractive effort has to be applied through a relatively low-friction interface (about 0.1 to 0.15 compared with rubber on road, normally well over 0.8) meaning a much lighter vehicle can provide the necessary tractive effort. I wonder why it was so commonplace. Perhaps it was a legacy issue, they had to use steam initially, thus driving the use of rails, and then, it was simpler and cheaper to implement diesel. best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) DAvid, likewise, but the 0-1-0 is splendidly silly and IMO deserves a prize. I think that the choice of a railway as a towing means alongside a canal is a little bizarre, certainly once IC engined tractors became commonplace. The provision of a normally-paved road, with a guide rail to which the driver could engage a automatic steering mechanism would seem cheaper to build, cheaper to operate, and more flexible. The great advantage of railways over roads is the lowered rolling resistance, but that offers no benefit when the load is floating, and the tractive effort has to be applied through a relatively low-friction interface (about 0.1 to 0.15 compared with rubber on road, normally well over 0.8) meaning a much lighter vehicle can provide the necessary tractive effort. I wonder why it was so commonplace. Perhaps it was a legacy issue, they had to use steam initially, thus driving the use of rails, and then, it was simpler and cheaper to implement diesel. best Simon None of the above I'm afraid Simon. Though some experiments with steam haulage did take place on canals, including in Britain, they were not successful partly because the locomotives had to operate at very slow speeds and so were very inefficient but also because they had to cart round their own fuel supply The first electric towing tractors used in France were conventionally wheeled with power taken from a pair of wires and some of the lesser used canals were later fitted with such "trolley" systems to complement the rail equipped main routes. IC tractors were also used on even less busy canals. The problem with using the towpath itself was the very high cost of metalling it and the high costs of maintenance. The rail based system used very light rail that as you say, only had to carry the weight of the tractor (which was ballasted for stability) , and for the same reason could be steeply graded to pass over bridges or alongside locks One of the early experimental systems tried out in Germany did include a rack but this was found to be unncecessary as the tractor was pulling a relatively low drawbar load. An electric tractor on rails hauling canal barges was actually the most energy efficient means of inland freight transport ever developed as the "rolling" resistance is far lower than with the load carried on wheels- even railway wheels. The tractors, whether road or rail had to carry enough ballast to resist the side forces tending to pull them into the canal so those on rails benefitted from the extra efficiency of running on rails and avoided the propulsion losses that a self propelled barge suffers from.They also avoided the need to strengthen the canal banks that motorised barges require. Even animal or human drawn barges are less efficient than bankside electric traction as they have to carry around their own fuel in the form of food. For a horse drawn canal barge travelling long distances that and the need for some kind of stabling aboard the barge made a fair sized hole in its cargo capacity. The system of "halage" in France replaced horse drawn traction without the need for the carriers to buy new motorised barges or the canals to strengthen their banks. Eventually of course both did happen, particularly as canal traffic became more international in Western Europe in the post war era. Nevertheless, France's electric towing railways had a fairly long career. The earliest ones were built in the 1900s but they really developed fully after the First World War. The system closed in 1970 by when the unpowered barges using it were very much in the minority. A few sections, used for or in support of long tunnel transits, survived for another ten or more years but that was to avoid fumes from barge engines rather than for efficiency. Edited January 12, 2018 by Pacific231G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Thanks David, I certainly agree that electric traction has much to commend it. As you note, it saves the need to carry fuel with the tractor, but if one is going to ballast the tractor anyway, this doesn’t seem to me to be much of an issue. It is of course pretty pollution free at the point of use, but I don’t suppose that was much of a consideration a century ago. Is the cost of metalling & maintaining a single carriageway really much higher than that of building a railway track of similar capacity? Particularly when the cost of the trolley wires, substations & associated infrastructure is added? Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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