Hornby Announce Peckett W4 0-4-0ST

[BG John]

The photo showing some of the wagons I linked to on the previous page has both flat and round ended wagons, so packs would need different types of wagon. Not that RTR PO wagons are ever accurate from what I can make out! How many different types of wagon did they have?

[davknigh]

Just out of curiosity, what diameter were the drivers on the prototype and what was the throw? I suspect anyone who fancied doing a conversion to EM or P4 (me) would like to find out so as to either stock up on drivers or get some commissioned.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[GeoffBird]

The photo showing some of the wagons I linked to on the previous page has both flat and round ended wagons, so packs would need different types of wagon. Not that RTR PO wagons are ever accurate from what I can make out! How many different types of wagon did they have?

According to the article in Railway Bylines, H&P only purchased the wagons from Gloucester RC&W (between 1873 and 1908) and they were their standard 10-ton Mineral 6-plank mineral wagon.  As far as I can see, RTR models seem to be either 5- or 7- plank variants.

[Poor Old Bruce]

Just out of curiosity, what diameter were the drivers on the prototype and what was the throw? I suspect anyone who fancied doing a conversion to EM or P4 (me) would like to find out so as to either stock up on drivers or get some commissioned.

 

According to the IRS book, the wheels were 3ft 2.5in and the cylinders 14 x 20in i.e. 10in throw.

[davknigh]

According to the IRS book, the wheels were 3ft 2.5in and the cylinders 14 x 20in i.e. 10in throw.

Ah, then we have a problem (or an opportunity) because the closest Gibson comes to that is a 3' 3.5", ten spoke with an 11" throw. Ultrascale has nothing close and Sharman no longer exists. Any ideas?

 

Cheers,

 

David

[decauville1126]

Ah, then we have a problem (or an opportunity) because the closest Gibson comes to that is a 3' 3.5", ten spoke with an 11" throw. Ultrascale has nothing close and Sharman no longer exists. Any ideas?

 

Cheers,

 

David

Considering that Ultrascale did produce replacement wheelsets for the Hornby Sentinel in its chain-coupled version, and are apparently thinking about doing the same for the rod-coupled one, then the Peckett would I think be a very commercially viable addition.

[9402 Fredrick]

I finally broke down and pre-ordered all 3 of these little things. I can't wait till I get these.

[PenrithBeacon]

Considering that Ultrascale did produce replacement wheelsets for the Hornby Sentinel in its chain-coupled version, and are apparently thinking about doing the same for the rod-coupled one, then the Peckett would I think be a very commercially viable addition.

Ultrascale have withdrawn the webpage they used have for encouraging interest in potential new wheel sets. But on the other hand they seem to be getting involved in other, non wheel related, matters.

 

Regards

Edited April 26, 2016 by PenrithBeacon

[davknigh]

There may be a way forward on the replacement wheel front. While strictly speaking not correct the 12mm size of wheel available from Alan Gibson would represent a worn sample. If someone could 3D print a suitable centre for a Peckett we're in with a chance. The catch may be to find a material that will accept a pressed axle without splitting.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Edwardian]

The photo showing some of the wagons I linked to on the previous page has both flat and round ended wagons, so packs would need different types of wagon. Not that RTR PO wagons are ever accurate from what I can make out! How many different types of wagon did they have?

 

Great pictures

[PenrithBeacon]

There may be a way forward on the replacement wheel front. While strictly speaking not correct the 12mm size of wheel available from Alan Gibson would represent a worn sample. If someone could 3D print a suitable centre for a Peckett we're in with a chance. The catch may be to find a material that will accept a pressed axle without splitting.

 

Cheers,

 

David

The AGW wheels will have a 1/8" i/d not the 2mm that seems to be the standard for RTR

[davknigh]

The AGW wheels will have a 1/8" i/d not the 2mm that seems to be the standard for RTR

True, but I'm thinking ahead to the conversion chassis that Chris Gibbon mentioned earlier on in this thread which will probably use 1/8" bearings. That said AGW has also  done 2.5 mm and 3mm id for RTR conversions in the past so many things are possible. My main point was that the rims exist, now all we need are centres with the right spoke pattern.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Dunsignalling]

Ah, then we have a problem (or an opportunity) because the closest Gibson comes to that is a 3' 3.5", ten spoke with an 11" throw. Ultrascale has nothing close and Sharman no longer exists. Any ideas?

 

Cheers,

 

David

The obvious one is to find someone with a lathe who can re-profile the Hornby tyres (always assuming their wheels are going to be accurate in other respects).

 

John

[bertiedog]

The best answer to the wheels would be to use the Hornby with new stainless steel tyres added. These would have to be turned on a lather, and fitted by a press onto the wheel centre. Nickel silver could also be used, or even mild steel, if you can risk rust.

 

The reason is that re-profiling would remove the plating of the brass or mazak wheel, (I am not sure what Hornby use these days). Also re-profiling would cause a slight reduction in diameter. The axles would have to be changed to move the wheels out to P4/S4 standards.

 

Overall it would be a very easy conversion.

 

Stephen.

[Opelsi]

Kilmersdon is indeed very fetching in Prussian blue. In a statistical dead heat with a GWR livery, that 'preserved S&DJR' livery for Kilmersdon would certainly be my choice.

 

I'm keen on that six-wheeled coach it drags around as well. Another nice shot of them both here.

 

Really hoping Hornby go ahead with this one in SDJR. surely a winner on sales! May a Ltd Edn.

Alas I think the odds on getting RTR SDJR stock are a lot longer, though it is a good time to back outsiders 'Leicester City' 'Danny Willett' etc. or maybe you think 'Donald Trump' as President is more likely!?!       

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...re-profiling would remove the plating of the brass or mazak wheel, (I am not sure what Hornby use these days)...

 Hornby have been consistently using brass on the new steam introductions to the range since the move to China. I wear through the plating on drivers inside a year, and they run just as well in this condition as when new.

[Horsetan]

Ultrascale have withdrawn the webpage they used have for encouraging interest in potential new wheel sets. ....

 

Probably because this was getting in the way of their regular orders.

 

#sevenmonths

 

Hornby have been consistently using brass on the new steam introductions to the range since the move to China. I wear through the plating on drivers inside a year, and they run just as well in this condition as when new.

 

....and Ultrascale also offer a cheaper brass-tyred option on a good many of their wheels, so it must work, even if the colouring is a bit off.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Horsetan

[number6]

...These would have to be turned on a lathe,

and fitted by a press onto the wheel centre...

The axles would have to be changed to move the wheels out to P4/S4 standards.

 

Overall it would be a very easy conversion.

 

I love the sense of what makes for an easy conversion for you guys!

On the the scale of difficulty there must be something under 'Very easy'? 'Effortless'? 'Breath-on-able'?

Edited May 5, 2016 by number6

[Horsetan]

I love the sense of what makes for an easy conversion for you guys!

On the the scale of difficulty there must be something under 'Very easy'? 'Effortless'? 'Breath-on-able'?

The only thing stopping you is the purchase of a lathe.

[number6]

We could do a 'whose has the best waddle' competition.

[bertiedog]

given the tyre is brass, then re-profiling can be done on the existing wheels, but there is an issue or two before P4 works.

The flange is the vital issue and on a modern 00/H0 wheel if the P4 flange is to be machined to the correct form the shape must fit within the overall profile of the 00 shape.

 

This means that to have the P4 flange, with the correct root radius to the tapered tyre, after machining the shape, the front on the wheel is wider than a scale distance and may foul splashers.

 

You might be lucky and be able to take a skim off the outside rim, but it can be close on modern finer scale commercial wheels.

If the P4 flange is in the correct position, in theory all 00 wheels need the front face reduced quite a bit.

 

On locos without splashers you can just leave the extra tyre width, it does no affect running in any way, only the flange and root must be perfect. Even the taper tyre can be flat, it does make a slight difference, but is really only important on fast passenger locos.

The Peckett should be a very easy conversion indeed.

[bertiedog]

As the Hornby wheel is brass with a plastic centre, if they have no undercut in the tyre and press on the rims, then the rim could be pushed out to line up with the P4 spec to make re profiling practical. It would then just require the outer face to be skimmed to the spokes rim level. You would not even need new axles in this case.

 

Does anybody know if the rims are pressed on? By under cut I mean in the hidden inside of the rim. They may mould the plastic into the rim, or press on to an already moulded centre.

 

Now getting interested in a Peckett or two on my now very elderly P4 layout, which just predated the issue of the standards!

Edited May 5, 2016 by bertiedog

[Horsetan]

As the Hornby wheel is brass with a plastic centre, if they have no undercut in the tyre and press on the rims, then the rim could be pushed out to line up with the P4 spec to make re profiling practical. It would then just require the outer face to be skimmed to the spokes rim level. You would not even need new axles in this case.

 

Does anybody know if the rims are pressed on? ....

 

On the model that started it all, Hornby's Rebuilt Merchant Navy, I found that the plastic wheel centres were pressed into the rims from the front, not the rear. It was easy to push the centres out with a bit of pressure.

 

I don't know if Hornby have followed this method since, or done what Heljan have done on their "05" shunter which has its wheels moulded in situ, with a raised ribbed section to prevent the tyre coming off.

[Porcy Mane]

 It would then just require the outer face to be skimmed to the spokes rim level. 

 

Agree entirely with what you say but the problem of thinning the wheel by turning off the front face means in a great many instances the visual appearance of the wheels wheel be unacceptably altered.

That's why I had to thin the Heljan 05 wheels from the rear and fir new tyres. Like this:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65792-hunslet-class-05/page-11&do=findComment&comment=2177708

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65792-hunslet-class-05/page-12&do=findComment&comment=2182146

 

and there is the Morgan Gilbert method as expained in Killibegs thread:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/82059-worseter-update-time-for-a-9f/page-23&do=findComment&comment=2254217

 

IMHO the subject of replacement wheel sets for those locomotives that have nothing available is something of a vexed one. For 4mm scale the two major wheel manufacturers/suppliers understandably, appear not to have the time to expend on new developments without neglecting the day to day profit making aspects of the business. 

There were those that thought the 3d printing of wheel centres may have been the answer but as things currently stand it looks as though the resins used for printing are not stable enough (over time) for wheel centre use. Producing a master from one looks to be ok.

 

It looks as though, for those of us wanting an accurate scale Peckett wheel in the near future, the only possibility will be by the use of a lathe. *

 

* Unimats can be bought second hand for not much more that a DCC equipped loco.

* The use of a lathe is not some black art. It's an overused saying but in my case far more relevant than usual. "If I can do it anybody can".

 

 

I don't know if Hornby have followed this method since, or done what Heljan have done on their "05" shunter which has its wheels moulded in situ, with a raised ribbed section to prevent the tyre coming off.

 

Now were did I read that?  

 

P

[Horsetan]

....the day to day profit making aspects of the business.....

 

That assumes they are actually making some sort of profit. This is (finescale) railway modelling, after all.....