Sutton's Locomotive Works class 24

[newbryford]

 

 

Futhermore, the advanced circuitry means that only the selected ZIMO decoder will operate sound and functions correctly. ESU Loksound decoders do not match up to the model's specifications.

 

The only way to obtain a fully functional, sound-fitted SLW Class 24 is to order it that way from SLW. Fortunately, SLW sound-fitted prices are very reasonable at the moment.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

 

I find that statement a bit misleading. Surely, decoders are manufactured to a standard, so that they can be swapped? If not, what's the point in having standards? Does this mean that the Zimo and 24 is non-standard?

 

 I was listening to a ESU Loksound fitted SLW 24 at the weekend - and very good it sounded too. All the lights also appeared to be working and switchable. So it looks like ESU's can be matched to the models specifications.

 

If I have more than one loco of a particular class, I like to have different sound projects to create some variety. So it's great to hear that there is an alternative available for the SLW24.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[pauliebanger]

I find that statement a bit misleading. Surely, decoders are manufactured to a standard, so that they can be swapped? If not, what's the point in having standards? Does this mean that the Zimo and 24 is non-standard?

 

 I was listening to a ESU Loksound fitted SLW 24 at the weekend - and very good it sounded too. All the lights also appeared to be working and switchable. So it looks like ESU's can be matched to the models specifications.

 

If I have more than one loco of a particular class, I like to have different sound projects to create some variety. So it's great to hear that there is an alternative available for the SLW24.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Mick,

 

My statement is entirely correct and not in the slightest misleading. 

 

The model was designed to take full advantage of the superior hardware specification of ZIMO decoders.

 

There's nothing to stop you choosing a different decoder; I just wanted everyone to know that only the ZIMO would operate all the functions provided in this model.

 

The ZIMO decoder used in the SLW factory fitted sound model has 10 Function Outputs, the loksound equivalent has 9. The 10th Function Output is used in the model, so a Loksound equipped model will be missing a lighting function.

 

Perhaps your demonstrator forgot to point that out to you?

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[johndon]

I see that the PDF says that a conversion kit for the Tyne Dock variant is now available 

 

John

[newbryford]

Mick,

 

My statement is entirely correct and not in the slightest misleading. 

 

The model was designed to take full advantage of the superior hardware specification of ZIMO decoders.

 

There's nothing to stop you choosing a different decoder; I just wanted everyone to know that only the ZIMO would operate all the functions provided in this model.

 

The ZIMO decoder used in the SLW factory fitted sound model has 10 Function Outputs, the loksound equivalent has 9. The 10th Function Output is used in the model, so a Loksound equipped model will be missing a lighting function.

 

Perhaps your demonstrator forgot to point that out to you?

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

 

 Looking at the recently issued manual, it does indeed list 10 outputs, but in reality only 8 are used. A loco with headcode would not have marker lights and vice-versa. And the manual does indeed state that fact.

 

Note: Not all function outputs/lighting circuits may be used on every model version.

For instance, a pilot scheme Class 24 will obviously not have alpha-numeric headcode

box or twin headlight illumination circuits fitted.

 

So that makes 8 outputs if my maths are correct?

 

And until a 24 with headcode box is released, then it's not at al relevant anyway.

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited February 23, 2016 by newbryford

[tractor_37260]

So that makes 8 outputs if my maths are correct?

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Em no - only 6 outputs are used (at present)  - 2 for the markers/ 2 for the tail lights / 2 for the cab/engine room lights = 6  

 

Perhaps an "ESU" sound fitted version did sound very good, BUT I doubt it had the same quality of drive ability and features etc ? none of my many Bif's/Howes/SWD versions have !

 

The SLW 24 is by far the best sounding model loco I've heard to date, and I'm sure many would agree with that.

 

Regards

Ken

[pauliebanger]

Mick,

 

I did not say that all 10 Function Outputs are used in the SLW Class 24.

 

I said that the 10th Function Output has been used. The Loksound does not have a 10th Function Output, so the lighting wired to the model's PCB 10th Function Output connection in the model as delivered will not find a physical connection in the case of a Loksound decoder.

 

It would be possible to connect the light expecting to 'see' FO10 (in this case the cab light at No 2 end) to an unused lower Function Output but only by rewiring the PCB connectors. Though perhaps not a difficult task, that would be changing the model's specification to suit the ESU decoder.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[GRUNFOS]

I see that the PDF says that a conversion kit for the Tyne Dock variant is now available 

 

John

And free etched worksplates to existing customers.

Paul.

[johndon]

And free etched worksplates to existing customers.

Paul.

 

Just a shame that neither of the existing two body styles are correct for the Tyne Docker so some surgery would still be needed.

 

John

[newbryford]

Em no - only 6 outputs are used (at present)  - 2 for the markers/ 2 for the tail lights / 2 for the cab/engine room lights = 6  

 

 

 

 

Mick,

 

I did not say that all 10 Function Outputs are used in the SLW Class 24.

 

I said that the 10th Function Output has been used. The Loksound does not have a 10th Function Output, so the lighting wired to the model's PCB 10th Function Output connection in the model as delivered will not find a physical connection in the case of a Loksound decoder.

 

It would be possible to connect the light expecting to 'see' FO10 (in this case the cab light at No 2 end) to an unused lower Function Output but only by rewiring the PCB connectors. Though perhaps not a difficult task, that would be changing the model's specification to suit the ESU decoder.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

 

So if I've read this correctly, there are outputs that are used exclusively for a non-headcode fitted loco and outputs that are used exclusively for a headcode fitted loco?. As per a couple of posts back Note: Not all function outputs/lighting circuits may be used on every model version.

Would it not have made sense to use the same output for both? Thus freeing up the other two outputs for potential addition of other extras, such as a smoke unit?

 

In fact - the manual suggests that.

Redundant outputs may, of course, be

reprogrammed and utilised for other features such as electromagnetic couplings, smoke

generators, etc. if so wished (and if space can be found).

 

Why not have them ready for other accessories, rather than having to re-program them?

 

By putting the likes of output 10 as a cab light, it seems that you've "designed out" using an alternate decoder.

 

As I've said before, I like to hear other sounds in the same classes and as my fleet is often changing, it's not unknown for me to swap decoders from loco to loco as some are retired from service and have the decoders reblown. It looks like this won't be possible unless I use Zimo and Zimo only with the 24. It's a bit like having a car with odd wheel bolt spacings, so I can't use anyone else's aftermarket wheels.

 

Oh well.

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

[pauliebanger]

So if I've read this correctly, there are outputs that are used exclusively for a non-headcode fitted loco and outputs that are used exclusively for a headcode fitted loco?. As per a couple of posts back Note: Not all function outputs/lighting circuits may be used on every model version.

Would it not have made sense to use the same output for both? Thus freeing up the other two outputs for potential addition of other extras, such as a smoke unit?

 

In fact - the manual suggests that.

Redundant outputs may, of course, be

reprogrammed and utilised for other features such as electromagnetic couplings, smoke

generators, etc. if so wished (and if space can be found).

 

Why not have them ready for other accessories, rather than having to re-program them?

 

By putting the likes of output 10 as a cab light, it seems that you've "designed out" using an alternate decoder.

 

As I've said before, I like to hear other sounds in the same classes and as my fleet is often changing, it's not unknown for me to swap decoders from loco to loco as some are retired from service and have the decoders reblown. It looks like this won't be possible unless I use Zimo and Zimo only with the 24. It's a bit like having a car with odd wheel bolt spacings, so I can't use anyone else's aftermarket wheels.

 

Oh well.

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Mick,

 

I think you are scratching this too much. LOL

 

I've not mentioned anything about headcode box/ non-headcode models since as far as I am aware, headcode models do not exist in the SLW range.

 

For the majority of users who want a  sound-fitted model, the most convenient and cost effective option is to buy the ready to run sound-fitted version. No need to open the loco and the sound project has been optimised for this particular model. The ZIMO also has several operational features which are missing from ESU. No need to expand on that here as this has been covered elsewere, and owners of ZIMO sound fitted SLW Class 24s plus users of ZIMO ActiveDrive sound projects from Digitrains are are all well aware of the increased immersivity and realism that they bring to loco driving. This is the point that tractor_37260 made in his post earlier. If one has not used  these projects, how can one know what one has ben missing? How can a fair assessment or comparisson be made with other sound projects for the same class of loco?

 

For those who wish to tinker, the model has been specially designed to make all available Function Outputs easilly accessible. This is a massive departure from any other model currently on sale in the UK. It's a simple fact that the ZIMO decoder in these models has more Function Outputs than the Loksound.

 

You can put a different decoder into these models, but you will have to modify the model if it's not the specified ZIMO decoder. That's all I was trying to get over in my posts.

 

I fully understand your point about different sounds for the same class, that's why there are several versions available of many of my existig sound projects.

 

Currently, there is no alternative Class 24 available on the specified ZIMO decoder. Please remember that they only went on sale a couple of months ago, time enough for variations to appear.

 

For example, my Class 47 sound projects for Rail Exclusive's Vi-Trains limited editions, and now available from RE as sound-fitting kits, has 6 variants covering all the major sub-divisions. That's probably more choice than any other single sound provider.

 

We can agree to differ on questions of opinion, whether sound project X is 'better' than sound project Y, but I was disappointed that you choose to question the accuracy of my statements publically, based upon incorrect information or assumptions.

 

You are free to believe what you wish, characterise this as you see fit and make your own purchasing choices. That does not change the facts so I've said all I am going to on this issue.   

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[newbryford]

 

I've not mentioned anything about headcode box/ non-headcode models since as far as I am aware, headcode models do not exist in the SLW range.

 

 

[snip]

 

 I was disappointed that you choose to question the accuracy of my statements publically, based upon incorrect information or assumptions.

 

You are free to believe what you wish, characterise this as you see fit and make your own purchasing choices. That does not change the facts so I've said all I am going to on this issue.   

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

 

As for headcode models that aren't available, why include it as an output or two? Thus unnecessarily IMO pushing the cab light to output 10 which as you point out, is the exclusive domain of the Zimo. 

 

I haven't questioned the accuracy of your statements at all. I think you're reading too much into it.

And what incorrect information was I working on? I've looked at the loco manual I'm only wondering why the output assignment is such that it effectively excludes other decoders if you want DCC controlled cab lights. 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, as you say.

End of issue.

[newbryford]

 

 

The ZIMO decoder used in the SLW factory fitted sound model has 10 Function Outputs, the loksound equivalent has 9. The 10th Function Output is used in the model, so a Loksound equipped model will be missing a lighting function.

 

Perhaps your demonstrator forgot to point that out to you?

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

 

Actually yes. I forgot that the demonstrator had simply moved a jumper or two on the PCB to make the lighting work correctly with an ESU with it's 9 outputs. So that's actually quite a good design feature of the PCB that you can swap outputs without reprogramming them.

 

More manufacturers should take that feature on board.

Edited February 23, 2016 by newbryford

[GRUNFOS]

Finished mine, apart from SLW worksplates.

 

 

 

modelled and weathered from a 1975 photo

[GRUNFOS]

Now fitted with Phils etced worksplates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Graham_Muz]

If it is of any interested I have posted about the SLW release of D5000 from a Southern Region perspective on my blog here http://grahammuz.com/2016/03/10/the-all-new-type-2-class-24-in-4mm-from-new-manufacturer-suttons-locomotive-works/

[Black 5 Bear]

One word springs to mind,"Quality".Well done SLW.

[tarifa]

Actually yes. I forgot that the demonstrator had simply moved a jumper or two on the PCB to make the lighting work correctly with an ESU with it's 9 outputs. So that's actually quite a good design feature of the PCB that you can swap outputs without reprogramming them.

 

More manufacturers should take that feature on board.

Mick,

 

I have just picked up on this topic and you are probably already aware of this, however here goes.  The PCB is designed for a 22 pin decoder hence the 10 function outputs using pin 11 (index) as an output.  The decoder is a Zimo MX645 special to use pin 11 for the cab interior lights hence 10 outputs.  I think to use an ESU 21 pin decoder pin 11 on the PCB needs removing, any chance of asking your demonstrator if this is the case.

 

Mike

 

Mike

[newbryford]

Mick,

 

I have just picked up on this topic and you are probably already aware of this, however here goes.  The PCB is designed for a 22 pin decoder hence the 10 function outputs using pin 11 (index) as an output.  The decoder is a Zimo MX645 special to use pin 11 for the cab interior lights hence 10 outputs.  I think to use an ESU 21 pin decoder pin 11 on the PCB needs removing, any chance of asking your demonstrator if this is the case.

 

Mike

 

Mike

 

Hi Mike,

AFAIA, ESU do a PluX22 decoder (part no. 56497) but I'll check to make sure that's what is used.

 

As I noted before, there doesn't seem any need to put the cab lights away on F10 as there's other - unused on the 24 according to the excellent SLW manual and confirmed in posts t#872 and #873 by others - outputs available. It just seems to me that it's been engineered that way to prevent other decoders being used. Or is that just a conspiracy theory?

 

As it is, it looks like SLW have provided a simple solution to alter the output configuration by swapping a couple of jumpers around - a method long used by the pcb industry to enable/disable features on circuit boards. I once suggested this to one of the other manufacturers when they were intending to put PluX decoder sockets in their locos (as it turns out, they went down the 21MTC route instead)

 

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited March 10, 2016 by newbryford

[legomanbiffo]

No, pin 11 does not need removing, the ESU Plux22 chip (indeed any Plux22 chip) plugs straight in without any modification to the board. Anyone who has fitted a chip themselves will be able to use an ESU chip with this loco and enjoy the full range of features with the possible exception of the engine room lights. This includes independently switchable cab lights and tail lights. The factory fitted speakers are perfectly suited to the ESU chip without modification and sound great. Plux22 v4 chips with sounds recorded from 24081 will be available as soon as I've finished editing the project. The work in progress version can be heard at York and Alexandra Palace shows, amongst others.

 

Bif

[tarifa]

Ian, Mick,

 

Thanks for the clarification, perhaps I should read the ESU web site more often, but to use the MTC 21 pin decoder the removal of pin 11 would apply,???

 

Mike

[pauliebanger]

Mike,

 

You cannot use a 21 MTC decoder of any type in this model, it must be a PluX22.

 

The pins are on the decoder in the PluX specifications, on the PCB for 21MTC. They are not interchangeable.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[tarifa]

Thanks Paul, one would have thought that decoder manufacturers would have maintained a common pin allocation through the 21 and 22 pin ranges.

 

Mike

[Grovenor]

The standard pin allocation for PluX-22 connectors is defined in NEM 658. The standard specifies that pin 11 is not used as a connection but only for indexing, ie to stop you fitting the plug the wrong way round.. By using pin 11 for one of the circuits the designers are deliberately choosing to use a non-standard arrangement. This will prevent fitting the non-standard decoder into a standard PluX-22 socket on a loco that meets the standard. On the other side, if fitting a standard PluX-22 decoder without pin 11 you will have to take care as it could be fitted the wrong way round.

Regards

[Nick G]

The next Class 24 release from SLW is:

 

DARLINGTON-BUILT PRODUCTION MACHINE

 

in BR green with small yellow warning panels

 

Available in two different running numbers

 

D5098 was re-allocated to York shed (50A) in March 1963 in order to assist with further dieselisation in the area, in particular the closure of Scarborough depot to steam in May of that year. It became a common sight in and around Yorkshire for the remainder of the ‘Swinging ‘60s’ on every conceivable type of traffic from local pick-up freights to heavy passenger duties. 

 

D5107 worked off Gateshead (52A) during the 1960s. This machine later became one of the ten locomotives (D5102-D5111) selected for use in pairs on the famous Tyne Dock to Consett steelworks iron ore services. Replacing the 9Fs in 1966, the small fleet of Type 2s had their steam heating boilers and tanks removed and high level air pipes fitted in order to operate with the dedicated high capacity wagons.

[Ian Hargrave]

They will be at the York Show this coming weekend.Just received my e mail.