Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[adb968008]

Out of curiosity- for what reason would someone wrongly advise on the colour scheme? Or, has Oxford Rail unwittingly employed some blagger who sounds like they know what they're talking about, but doesn't really know?

 

Thats a harsh interpretation, it could be any number of reasons.

but it could equally be something as trivial as the actual BR colour not taking to a plastic shell's natural colour as it does to an undercoat on steel of the real thing.

 

Hornby had a spell of going off colour in recent years, especially so for poor GW fans (Hall, king etc), but more recently they seem to have brought this up a gear, the paint finish of the recent BR Duchesses was spot on... I know as I took an unexposed (the non-sun/element exposed side) of a paint shaving off of a piece of Railwayana in the same livery and it blended dead on.

Edited July 21, 2018 by adb968008

[gazwire]

Thats a harsh interpretation, it could be any number of reasons.

but it could equally be something as trivial as the actual BR colour not taking to a plastic shell's natural colour as it does to an undercoat on steel of the real thing.

 

Hornby had a spell of going off colour in recent years, especially so for poor GW fans (Hall, king etc), but more recently they seem to have brought this up a gear, the paint finish of the recent BR Duchesses was spot on... I know as I took an unexposed (the non-sun/element exposed side) of a paint shaving off of a piece of Railwayana in the same livery and it blended dead on.

Is it me being harsh though? In all fairness, I'm just questioning why a few posts on this topic seem to be targeting this so called 'advisor'. I'm not having a go at Oxford Rail; If anything I'm taking away the blame as it seems to me they would have employed this 'advisor in good faith.

[159220]

 b/ don't care what their customer base is saying.

 

 

It should be remembered that Oxford Rail did hold a survey on liveries through their website and in communication with their direct customer base. One of the questions was whether they should model a livery as accurately as possible through their own research OR/ match to competitors. It was overly convincing that the first was the preference of Oxford Rail customers. Perhaps at the time, people voted for this, not understanding the consequences fully. Notwithstanding, it must be noted, RMWeb is a very small part of any model manufacturers customer base. 

[Waverley West]

Perhaps at the time, people voted for this, not understanding the consequences fully. 

 

But surely we'd never vote for anything we don't fully understand the consequences of?

 

 

 

[YesTor]

Oxford Rail did hold a survey on liveries through their website and in communication with their direct customer base. One of the questions was whether they should model a livery as accurately as possible through their own research OR/ match to competitors.

 

...and sadly they have successfully achieved neither. 

Edited July 22, 2018 by YesTor

[tractor_37260]

But surely we'd never vote for anything we don't fully understand the consequences of?

 

 

 

 

  Brexit     

[gazwire]

It should be remembered that Oxford Rail did hold a survey on liveries through their website and in communication with their direct customer base. One of the questions was whether they should model a livery as accurately as possible through their own research OR/ match to competitors. It was overly convincing that the first was the preference of Oxford Rail customers. Perhaps at the time, people voted for this, not understanding the consequences fully. Notwithstanding, it must be noted, RMWeb is a very small part of any model manufacturers customer base.

 

That's a bit harsh though and overly critical of customer's natural instincts.

[royaloak]

I take it everyone thinks every coach was painted the exact same shade of grey with absolutely no variation at all even as the paint weathered.

 

There will always be slight variation depending how the paint is applied and how it weather's and I am happy enough with the Oxford mark 3s but maybe that's down to my eyesight.

[Bob Reid]

No, quite the opposite if you read back through the topic - however not going over old ground in the case of the ScotRail stock the difference is a step too far and not very prototypical....

[njee20]

You’ve still not seen one.

[Tiddles47]

There is another way of getting round the livery debate... run em in the dark, that way you wont see the difference!  Also that way you can the effect of the lighting in the DBSO.. which then flags up another problem.. no lighting in the MK3's ( but we wont start on the arguemnt again either!)   

[BigAndy]

Out of curiosity- for what reason would someone wrongly advise on the colour scheme? Or, has Oxford Rail unwittingly employed some blagger who sounds like they know what they're talking about, but doesn't really know?

 

Correct Bob. They have unwittingly taken on board the ramblings of someone who doesn't know what he's talking about, but is very good at convincing everyone that he does - I've first hand experience of this from that person........

 

The other side of it of course though, is that OR have had chance to rectify the problem but it would seem that they are sticking put with the affore mentioned blagger.

 

Royal Oak, whilst you are correct in what you say about the weathering of paint etc etc, whichever depot painted a particular coach/Loco, they had a standard paint pantone which had to be adhered to no matter what geographic location the works were in. Any paint, if it's the same pantone, will not be sufficiently different to another paint applied by another depot so that the difference is visible. Weathering does have an effect, but again, only sufficiently to differentiate a few vehicles to some others mildly.

 

The difference between the OR Inter-City colours, compared to the Bachmann colours and also the shades supplied in pots by Precision, Railmatch etc etc is a universe away. Bachmann, Precision, railmatch paint are all so similar to each other youi cannot see any difference at all.

 

cheers

 

Andy

[BigAndy]

It should be remembered that Oxford Rail did hold a survey on liveries through their website and in communication with their direct customer base. One of the questions was whether they should model a livery as accurately as possible through their own research OR/ match to competitors. It was overly convincing that the first was the preference of Oxford Rail customers. Perhaps at the time, people voted for this, not understanding the consequences fully. Notwithstanding, it must be noted, RMWeb is a very small part of any model manufacturers customer base. 

 

The problem there, is that everyone was presuming OR were going to get both grey's correct as per B.R spec - as Bachmann have done, Precision, Railmatch et al...............as the latter's got theirs pretty much spot on to the B.R spec, again, it was assumed that OR would do the same............unfortunately, as has been said in many posts already, none of us reckoned with them opting for the advice given by a colour blind buffoon.

 

What did David Brent from the Office say about assuming? ......."To assume makes an ass out of you and me"

 

cheers

 

Andy

[ThaneofFife]

well when they hit the shops sales will tell.   if they fall flat on their face hopefully they will sack the buffoon who advised them.

 

oh to hear the logic that was applied to the final sign off on this colour when all around people were saying tis just wrong.    how harmful this will be to their sales is hard to comprehend.  just hard to understand why you would risk a models success when you had ample opportunity before sign off to get it right.    they got it right in the 1980s with old techniques...........

 

Hornby could jump in and go ahead with their own ScotRail mk3s if they so wished, as was rumoured a few years back but the plan was canned.   On the revised tooling mk3 with better couplings and the nice tinted glazing and chunkier bogies with more accurate underframe proportions I think it could be a real winner especially if they can figure out the silver window frames.......

 

to the guy on here that keeps going on about the Hornby model being an HST "trailer" not a mk3 - yes we get what it is but I would rather have a HST trailer coach in the right livery with the wrong roof vent detail than a coach with the wrong livery and the right details.

Edited July 29, 2018 by ThaneofFife

[Mark Saunders]

At 62 pages of comment has anyone actually seen a production model?

 

Mark Saunders

[Bob Reid]

Yes, for those Intercity models released so far but not for the ScotRail liveried models that have yet to be released. So it’s 60+ pages of warranted criticism.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Bob Reid

[Tiddles47]

well when they hit the shops sales will tell.   if they fall flat on their face hopefully they will sack the buffoon who advised them.

 

oh to hear the logic that was applied to the final sign off on this colour when all around people were saying tis just wrong.    how harmful this will be to their sales is hard to comprehend.  just hard to understand why you would risk a models success when you had ample opportunity before sign off to get it right.    they got it right in the 1980s with old techniques...........

 

Hornby could jump in and go ahead with their own ScotRail mk3s if they so wished, as was rumoured a few years back but the plan was canned.   On the revised tooling mk3 with better couplings and the nice tinted glazing and chunkier bogies with more accurate underframe proportions I think it could be a real winner especially if they can figure out the silver window frames.......

 

to the guy on here that keeps going on about the Hornby model being an HST "trailer" not a mk3 - yes we get what it is but I would rather have a HST trailer coach in the right livery with the wrong roof vent detail than a coach with the wrong livery and the right details.

Who know's what goes on behind closed doors, but lets hope the "advisor" is shown the door if and when he's got the boot. But I wont hold my breath. 

 

I presume you are referring to me about "going on about" the Hornby MK3. FYI i have only mentioned it ONCE so that is hardly repetitive. I was just voicing my opinion. Like we all are.  By all means  write to Hornby and put forward the idea!! You never know they might say yes!!

[Matt]

well when they hit the shops sales will tell.   if they fall flat on their face hopefully they will sack the buffoon who advised them.

 

oh to hear the logic that was applied to the final sign off on this colour when all around people were saying tis just wrong.    how harmful this will be to their sales is hard to comprehend.  just hard to understand why you would risk a models success when you had ample opportunity before sign off to get it right.    they got it right in the 1980s with old techniques...........

 

Hornby could jump in and go ahead with their own ScotRail mk3s if they so wished, as was rumoured a few years back but the plan was canned.   On the revised tooling mk3 with better couplings and the nice tinted glazing and chunkier bogies with more accurate underframe proportions I think it could be a real winner especially if they can figure out the silver window frames.......

 

to the guy on here that keeps going on about the Hornby model being an HST "trailer" not a mk3 - yes we get what it is but I would rather have a HST trailer coach in the right livery with the wrong roof vent detail than a coach with the wrong livery and the right details.

 

Hornby could jump in and do a ScotRail version but will they get the lower bodyside colour right? I seem to recall their Intercity Mk3s (and HST) were too "yellow" on lower bodyside...

[HillsideDepot]

 but I would rather have a HST trailer coach in the right livery with the wrong roof vent detail than a coach with the wrong livery and the right details.

 

What a strange comment. Still, each to their own.

[shunny]

I have mentioned this before but Malcolm from Oxford bought one of the Bachmann Ltd Scotrail class 47's at Glasgow show in February so they could look at colour matching. He did say they hadn't decided if they were going to produce them to match the Bachmann models but at least we know they have the loco to compare.

His did state they expected most people would be running them with Bachmann loco's and the new dbso but we will just have to wait to see an actual model to find out.

[gazwire]

I've just lined up my oxford 9 coach rake of intercity livery mk3 coaches. My initial impressions are:

 

+

-close up the model is good due to the details.

-well made and have a nice feel and weight.

 

 

-

-viewing from afar they are less convincing because of the lack of silver rim windows and the roof

ridging.

- alongside my Bachmann 47 intercity 'titan' the colours are ckearly wrong which doesn't bide well when it's matched up to the new 87 and 90.

 

 

Overall, for me, they are good coaches but the sad thing is the mistakes have been made on the important things; the livery, the silver window rims and to an extent the roof ridging (although it may well be diametrically correct for the model) which doesn't come across. Those mistakes have been made on the aspects of the coach which define it- the things which make the intercity mark 3s look like the real thing. When I line up my rakes of Bachmann mark 1 and 2s, they look correct close up and from afar. Oxford weren't that far off I don't think from making a good model;frustratingly though it seems they decided not to do any quality control on the finished product/run it past some experts.

 

Anyhow, I'm going to put them away and set out my Bachmann mark 1 intercity rake to make me feel a bit better. I just hope and pray they can sort the blue/grey inter city ones out as the mark 3s are my favourite ever coaches.

[njee20]

What a strange comment. Still, each to their own.

Why is it strange? I’m inclined to agree, I don’t actually know the differences between the mk3a and an HST trailer, buffers aside, so I’d rather the livery was right.

[phil-b259]

well when they hit the shops sales will tell.   if they fall flat on their face hopefully they will sack the buffoon who advised them.

 

 

Except that Oxford could (like other manufacturers before them) turn round and go " they don't sell so we won't make any more"

 

While in lots of sectors of the economy, customers not buying a product usually means companies recognise there is a problem, there is a tendency sometimes in the model world for manufactures to ignore this feedback and assume that people simply don't want a model of X.

Edited August 10, 2018 by phil-b259

[Legend]

Why is it strange? I’m inclined to agree, I don’t actually know the differences between the mk3a and an HST trailer, buffers aside, so I’d rather the livery was right.

I tend to agree . I haven’t really much of a clue about differences between loco and HST mk3s and shock horror have been running buffer fitted mk3s in my HST for years . For ages it was a lash up of Joueff and Lima coaches . Interestingly I repainted my Joueff ones executive grey way back in 1989 and I think they are a closer match colour wise than the Oxford ones. So if it looks like it’s a mk3 and it’s the correct length I’m not too bothered. But the livery clearly is important as you can easily spot the difference in shades . I gave up waiting for the Oxford ones to appear ages ago and bought a Harburn set off EBay . Perfectly happy with them but I would add to the rake if the colours match . If they don’t, forget it, and l’ll buy more Lima second hand off eBay

Edited August 10, 2018 by Legend

[66738]

I've just lined up my oxford 9 coach rake of intercity livery mk3 coaches. My initial impressions are:

 

+

-close up the model is good due to the details.

-well made and have a nice feel and weight.

 

 

-

-viewing from afar they are less convincing because of the lack of silver rim windows and the roof

ridging.

- alongside my Bachmann 47 intercity 'titan' the colours are ckearly wrong which doesn't bide well when it's matched up to the new 87 and 90.

 

 

Overall, for me, they are good coaches but the sad thing is the mistakes have been made on the important things; the livery, the silver window rims and to an extent the roof ridging (although it may well be diametrically correct for the model) which doesn't come across. Those mistakes have been made on the aspects of the coach which define it- the things which make the intercity mark 3s look like the real thing. When I line up my rakes of Bachmann mark 1 and 2s, they look correct close up and from afar. Oxford weren't that far off I don't think from making a good model;frustratingly though it seems they decided not to do any quality control on the finished product/run it past some experts.

 

Anyhow, I'm going to put them away and set out my Bachmann mark 1 intercity rake to make me feel a bit better. I just hope and pray they can sort the blue/grey inter city ones out as the mark 3s are my favourite ever coaches.

From what I saw at Glasgow, the Blue and Grey MK 3's look very nice indeed.

66738

Edited August 11, 2018 by 66738