Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[Waverley47708]

is the presence of the mk1 in The consist evidence ScR mk3’s we’re used on non-pushpull services ?

I spent a bit of time at Waverley and Fife 1985 to 87 watching trains. I only ever saw ScotRail livery Mk3s as part of push pull rakes. Nevertheless have seen a single one in a photo within a train on the Highland Mainline pulled by a non 477 Class 47. Have also seen one or possibly two at the end of a train passing through Warrington Bank Quay or Preston on a YouTube video. I would suggest the norm was for them to be used exclusively within push pull services and the two examples are rare exceptions.

[giz]

is the presence of the mk1 in The consist evidence ScR mk3’s we’re used on non-pushpull services ?

 

(I’ve got to admit I think I’ve been up to Aberdeen behind a 47/4 (47/6) which had a mix of mk2/3 stock without a dbso when I was a kid, sadly if I did I didn’t take a picture).

There is a photo in 'Diesels on the Regions Scottish Region' by Tom Noble (OPC) of an Aberdeen to Glasgow train in push mode containing a Mk1 RMB.

 

It's dated 30th March 1981 and comprises:

 

DBSO (leading) + FO (full length yellow stripe) + 3 x TSO + RMB + 47707

 

All blue/grey of course at this date.

Edited July 15, 2018 by giz

[Tiddles47]

There is a photo in 'Diesels on the Regions' by Tom Noble of an Aberdeen to Glasgow train in push mode containing a Mk1 RMB.

 

It's dated 30th March 1981 and comprises:

 

DBSO (leading) + FO (full length yellow stripe) + 3 x TSO + RMB + 47707

 

All blue/grey of course at this date.

Whilst not a MK3 p/p set this however shows an early  MK2's  in push pull formation with a MK1 buffet car.

[Bob Reid]

They are late build Air Con 2d/e or f's on the set Tiddles (as to what particular one's I need Graham (Flood to come to the rescue)...  Though in the first year of operation we did have residual ex-E&G early Mk2's for a spell on the Edinburgh / Dundee's with one of the spare DBSO's and then much later with some that returned from the Eastern.  As far as the Mk3's were concerned in the blue & grey era at least, there were only sufficient to operate the E&G diagrams and were rarely available for anything else though the diagrammed Maintenance Set got used on occasion.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Bob Reid

[Tiddles47]

They are late build Air Con 2d/e or f's on the set Tiddles (as to what particular one's I need Graham (Flood to come to the rescue)...  Though in the first year of operation we did have residual ex-E&G early Mk2's for a spell on the Edinburgh / Dundee's with one of the spare DBSO's and then much later with some that returned from the Eastern.  As far as the Mk3's were concerned in the blue & grey era at least, there were only sufficient to operate the E&G diagrams and were rarely available for anything else though the diagrammed Maintenance Set got used on occasion.

Yeah apologies i meant to say MK2 d/e in the early 80's 

[metadyneman]

Purely out of curiosity I purchased two Intercity liveried SO's recently to evaluate them and see whether I liked them or not. Both coaches arrived with at least 3 of the 4 steps having fallen off but once I'd managed to locate them, a tiny drop of glue was applied once they had been returned to their correct place. I won't go on about livery accuracy as that is still being done to death in the discussions but I am completely dissatisfied with the NEM coupling mechanism when running the coaches. The sprung "cam" extends out fully under tension with the net result of having the couplings protruding at an odd angle from the end of the coach. The distance between the coaches is therefore extended to an appallingly unacceptable gap. I tried using Kadees to see if that made any difference and whilst it was a little better, the gap was still unacceptably wide. It was after this that I experienced more serious problems with the whole coupling mechanism. When removing the Kadees there was an audible "ping" and the sound of something loose rattling inside the coach. Upon further investigation, I discovered that the coupling mechanism spring had detached itself from the chassis and the whole coupling assembly was unattached to anything in particular and very loose. The ratting inside was a tiny screw which held the seats to the chassis. It was clear when I re attached the spring and reinserted the screw that it was woefully too small to hold the assembly together and immediately "pinged" out again when I re attached the chassis to the body.  Suffice to say, until I have worked out a much more substantial coupling mechanism, these coaches are going in the "for a bored rainy day" box and Sorry to say I won't be buying any more of these. I would be interested to hear if anyone else has experienced the same problems. I'm not sending them back because I now have a challenge on my hands to work out a more robust coupling than the flimsy ones so fitted.

Apologies if this has been mentioned before but I'm not poughing through 60 plus pages about liveries to find out

[JeremyC]

............. I am completely dissatisfied with the NEM coupling mechanism when running the coaches. The sprung "cam" extends out fully under tension with the net result of having the couplings protruding at an odd angle from the end of the coach. The distance between the coaches is therefore extended to an appallingly unacceptable gap. I tried using Kadees to see if that made any difference and whilst it was a little better, the gap was still unacceptably wide. ..........

Apologies if this has been mentioned before but I'm not poughing through 60 plus pages about liveries to find out

While they should allow the supplied couplings to be used satisfactorily it must be noted that close coupling mechanisms require a solid bar to operate correctly, in my experience re-centring after curves can be problematic when fitted with any coupler that 'bends'. 

[ThaneofFife]

the appallingly large gaps between coaches mentioned above should be a thing of the past with todays new models. 

 

Bachmann manage really good close couplings that have the gangway rubbing plates virtually touching which really adds to the look of a rake of gangwayed stock.

[tractor_37260]

While they should allow the supplied couplings to be used satisfactorily it must be noted that close coupling mechanisms require a solid bar to operate correctly, in my experience re-centring after curves can be problematic when fitted with any coupler that 'bends'. 

 

Agree, depending on the radius of the curves in use, Roco 40271 couplings work quite well with these coaches, or the slightly longer Hornby version (40270). The centering mechanism has to be free moving, coating the moving parts with graphite powder helps.

[bigherb]

While they should allow the supplied couplings to be used satisfactorily it must be noted that close coupling mechanisms require a solid bar to operate correctly, in my experience re-centring after curves can be problematic when fitted with any coupler that 'bends'. 

Yep, Hornby supply a solid bar with their coaches, Bachman charges you more and don't and the same thing happens.

[JDW]

I haven't seen one close up in the flesh but in every picture I've seen the couplings look way longer than they need to be, there must be a six foot gap between the buffers when coupled - which makes me ask what the point of fitting a close coupling mechanism is in the first place?  They might as well have just fitted tension locks to the bogies.  With a close coupling mechanism the bar of the coupler doesn/t need to be much beyond the face of the buffers.  Fitting cam mechanisms and then adding huge long tension lock arms is hardly marketable as "close coupling", especially when the majority of users are unlikely to change them for Kadees/bar couplings/etc.

[Roy Langridge]

There is a short peice in Rail Express this month on the ScotRail Mk3a coaches being on their way. There is a statement "Oxford is currently set to persist with its own colours rather than colour match to Bachmann's Class 47/7 and upcoming Mk.2f DBSO".

 

Well, that is a load of sales from me that are now confirmed as being lost from me. Why did Oxford makes such a short-sighted and, quite frankly, ludicrous decision? The mind boggles...

Roy

[66738]

There is a short peice in Rail Express this month on the ScotRail Mk3a coaches being on their way. There is a statement "Oxford is currently set to persist with its own colours rather than colour match to Bachmann's Class 47/7 and upcoming Mk.2f DBSO".

 

Well, that is a load of sales from me that are now confirmed as being lost from me. Why did Oxford makes such a short-sighted and, quite frankly, ludicrous decision? The mind boggles...

Roy

So frustrating isn't it? They had an open goal in front of them and it seems they have some how spectacularly missed from 6 yards.

Aghhhh! (Banging head against brick wall)

66738

Edited July 20, 2018 by 66738

[Bob Reid]

There is a short peice in Rail Express this month on the ScotRail Mk3a coaches being on their way. There is a statement "Oxford is currently set to persist with its own colours rather than colour match to Bachmann's Class 47/7 and upcoming Mk.2f DBSO".

 

Well, that is a load of sales from me that are now confirmed as being lost from me. Why did Oxford makes such a short-sighted and, quite frankly, ludicrous decision? The mind boggles...

Roy

 

 

I do wonder if the painted shells are already complete and have been so for some time (i.e. at the time of the Mk3a's first release)...? Re-work obviously has a cost and this may well be a too big an effect on the profitability balanced against the potential for lost sales.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Bob Reid

[GordonC]

I do wonder if the painted shells are already complete and have been so for some time (i.e. at the time of the Mk3a's first release)...? Re-work obviously has a cost and this may well be a too big an effect on the profitability balanced against the potential for lost sales.

 

I for one wouldn't have minded a slightly higher price if it meant getting the right colours

[Bob Reid]

Could you imagine the uproar though Gordon!

[njee20]

Seems there's plenty of uproar already...!

[37081LochLong]

There is a short peice in Rail Express this month on the ScotRail Mk3a coaches being on their way. There is a statement "Oxford is currently set to persist with its own colours rather than colour match to Bachmann's Class 47/7 and upcoming Mk.2f DBSO".

 

Well, that is a load of sales from me that are now confirmed as being lost from me. Why did Oxford makes such a short-sighted and, quite frankly, ludicrous decision? The mind boggles...

 

Roy

The full correct statement reads "Judging from the images, Oxford is currently set to persist with its own colours rather than colour match to Bachmann's Class 47/7 and upcoming Mk.2f DBSO"

 

Since the image they show is the one shown on here, they are just saying they are surmising like us. They haven't confirmed that they are persisting with their own colours, just that they also think that it looks that way judging from the one picture

Edited July 20, 2018 by 37081LochLong

[BigAndy]

Just goes to show that they a/ don't bother reading forums such as this, and b/ don't care what their customer base is saying.

 

Either way they've lost sales because of it. Even one sale lost in business is unacceptable when it can easily be remedied - those that don't mind the livery mismatch would buy the product anyway, but where's the sense in getting it so wrong that the modellers who very much mind, will not now buy it..........................only mad admirals would scupper their own flagship..........

 

cheers

 

Andy

[Legend]

Could you imagine the uproar though Gordon!

I’m in uproar. Just get it right in the first place. It doesn’t cost any more

[Roy Langridge]

The full correct statement reads "Judging from the images, Oxford is currently set to persist with its own colours rather than colour match to Bachmann's Class 47/7 and upcoming Mk.2f DBSO"

 

Since the image they show is the one shown on here, they are just saying they are surmising like us. They haven't confirmed that they are persisting with their own colours, just that they also think that it looks that way judging from the one picture

I haven’t got the article in front of me, but if I have misquoted it, I apologise. That certainly wasn’t how I read it, but perhaps I was too frustrated!

 

Roy

[Bob Reid]

I doubt very much OR got it wrong deliberately in the first place Legend.  The Rail Express article is clearly not the scoop it first appeared, only repeating what can be read on here and we are no further forward as to what OR will produce at the end of the day.  Having found themselves in this position any business would balance the cost of any change to the agreed spec. / or re-work against the likelihood and quantity of lost sales - bear in mind they'll already know just how many have been sold with the incorrect colours.  It's easy to sit here and criticise their decisions when we are buying them in penny numbers and not fronting the cash for getting 000's onto the shelves.  

 

Am I disappointed? I certainly am, but worse things happen at sea (providing they get the blue & grey versions right) and I've yet to see the ScotRail liveried one's in the flesh.

[37081LochLong]

I haven’t got the article in front of me, but if I have misquoted it, I apologise. That certainly wasn’t how I read it, but perhaps I was too frustrated!

Roy

I read it the way I think you did initially, but I re-read the mag a little later and realised that they were just guessing too

[BigAndy]

Agreed Bob, they've just been very, VERY badly advised on the livery, but instead of asking someone who knows what they're talking about, they've stuck with what they were told in the first place. You'ld think really, that when dozens of modellers have all informed them that they've got it wrong, they would check and double check themselves that the one 'advisor' who keeps on getting their 'advice' totally out of phase, wasn't or was, talking out of his exhaust port.

 

cheers

 

Andy

[gazwire]

Agreed Bob, they've just been very, VERY badly advised on the livery, but instead of asking someone who knows what they're talking about, they've stuck with what they were told in the first place. You'ld think really, that when dozens of modellers have all informed them that they've got it wrong, they would check and double check themselves that the one 'advisor' who keeps on getting their 'advice' totally out of phase, wasn't or was, talking out of his exhaust port.

 

cheers

 

Andy

 

Out of curiosity- for what reason would someone wrongly advise on the colour scheme? Or, has Oxford Rail unwittingly employed some blagger who sounds like they know what they're talking about, but doesn't really know?