C&L Finescale

[Siberian Snooper]

I think Iain Rice suggested Semtex.

That should go with a bang!

[Stephen Freeman]

Would it be possible to carve the key from a chair moulding, fit the chair and then insert a key made from scrap?

Whilst it is certainly easier to remove them from plywood, if they are well stuck down it can still be difficult. If you don't want to salvage the chair then it's of course possible. You just have to cut the new chair in half and glue both parts.

[hayfield]

Presumably you would then have to replace with a cosmetic chair (cut in half and bonded from either side? Or is there a nifty way to add a new chair?

 

I am thinking of a situation where gauge narrowing has occurred and you need to reposition the chairs.

 

It will be using the new chairs cut in half, which in its self is not an issue when used on plastic chairs as they are welded to each other. You will need to slightly trim slightly the plastic under the rail on one chair (as the plastic tends to expand a tad when cut) to get a snug fit.

 

I would say though the number of times I have a gauging issue is very minimal, if at all. Normally its either because I put a chairs on the wrong way round or fitted the wrong chair. And in 00 gauge a bit of gauge narrowing can be accomodated within the standard.

 

I had one issue when building a P4 turnout using a set of Alan Gibson 3 point gauges of gauge narrowing, once I realised (with the assistance of others) what caused the problem it was easily solved and I now look out for potential issues.

 

As the common crossing is made as a soldered sub assembly, this is where the fettling occurs, the K crossings likewise are made as subassemblies in situ 

[davefrk]

C&L chairs on ply sleepers if done properly will stand the test of time. This picture was taken in 2008 of the end of platform point work on Wharfeside shows plastic chairs on ply sleepers. Some Exactoscale ones have replaced C&L ones which weren't so correct but the formation was then painted and is in regular use for playing testing of trains. More cut down chairs were added to the K crossing but the pointwork is basically there.

 

And as it was earlier this year.

 

All painted and ballasted but still working well and no loose chairs as far as can be seen.

Sub assemblies were soldered onto 0.4mm n/s strip which were glued down onto the sleepers and cosmetic chairs placed on either side but most of the rails are held by the plastic chairs.

 

Dave Franks.

Edited June 19, 2018 by davefrk

[Guy Rixon]

Whilst it is certainly easier to remove them from plywood, if they are well stuck down it can still be difficult. If you don't want to salvage the chair then it's of course possible. You just have to cut the new chair in half and glue both parts.

 

My suggest was not to cut the new chair in half, but to open it out so that it can be fitted onto the rail and become a functional chair when a key is added. No idea if this is practical or not, hence the query.

[Lecorbusier]

Actually my initial question was somewhat different as I was not thinking of replacing chairs per se unless unavoidable. Being still somewhat a beginner at this track building malarkey, just the ability to slide a blade between a chair and the ply sleeper is a godsend. It allows me to re-gauge the track and simply re-use the existing chairs with a dab more butanone. Can be useful on gauge widening where its not quite enough going around curves. Also where the angle of the rail in the chair might have caused a little gauge narrowing due to carelessness on the original laying. I had to do this on part of my crossover configuration. As of yet none of my chairs have come loose when not intended.

[PenrithBeacon]

I have very little experience in this area, but I recently had to do some maintenance on a layout I bought which entailed widening the gauge a little. The trackwork is plastic chairs on ply sleeper

The hassle of removing the chairs without damaging them didn't seem to be worth the candle as the chairs are so cheap. I sliced the chairs vertically downwards using the rail as a guide and then sliced the chair halves off the sleepers. All this was done using a No9 blade. The rail was re-gauged and split chairs added to support, although over such a short length I'm not sure what is supporting whom!

I have observed much the same being done at the W&DMRC with plastic chairs and plastic sleepers. It's more difficult to break the bond between chair and sleepers but with a bit of patience it can be done.

[Torper]

The hassle of removing the chairs without damaging them didn't seem to be worth the candle as the chairs are so cheap. I sliced the chairs vertically downwards using the rail as a guide and then sliced the chair halves off the sleepers. All this was done using a No9 blade. The rail was re-gauged and split chairs added to support, although over such a short length I'm not sure what is supporting whom!

 

Hmmm - 5.5p a chair which works out at £11.44 per metre of track.  Not really all that cheap.

 

Certainly I've found that plastic chairs butanoned onto ply sleepers hold firm, but do have the advantage, as others have said, of being fairly easy to move with the application of a fine blade between the bottom of the chair and the sleeper.  I've found that most chairs don't break when that happens and those that do can usually be re-used.

 

DT

[PenrithBeacon]

Hmmm - 5.5p a chair which works out at £11.44 per metre of track. Not really all that cheap.

 

...

If you have to count your 5p pieces then you're in the wrong hobby! Have you noticed the price of beer and petrol recently?

[Horsetan]

 

Hmmm - 5.5p a chair which works out at £11.44 per metre of track.  Not really all that cheap.....

If you have to count your 5p pieces then you're in the wrong hobby! Have you noticed the price of beer and petrol recently?

 

Give him a break. He is in Scotland, after all. They are careful with their money up there! 

 

[Torper]

Give him a break. He is in Scotland, after all. They are careful with their money up there! 

 

Substitute "Israel" for "Scotland" and I suspect you'd have found yourself in extremely hot water for a remark like that!

 

DT

[LBRJ]

Substitute "Israel" for "Scotland" and I suspect you'd have found yourself in extremely hot water for a remark like that!

 

DT

 

Substitute "Yorkshire" and we would have just laughed along with the supposition of extreme fiscal prudence

[RBAGE]

Back on topic (sorry) but how is the C and L turn around time these days?

I've tried to contact Phil today (several times) for a card payment on an order with no success.

Bob

[Lecorbusier]

Macawber's law applies irrespective of how well off anyone is .... barring the super rich.

[YesTor]

Back on topic (sorry) but how is the C and L turn around time these days?

I've tried to contact Phil today (several times) for a card payment on an order with no success.

Bob

 

Assuming that the C&L website is accurate and up-to-date and quote from the homepage... 

 

"Office will be closed from 14th June until 27th June 2018 as I only have three days to prepare for the Perth show after the GCR event."

Edited June 19, 2018 by YesTor

[Horsetan]

Substitute "Israel" for "Scotland" and I suspect you'd have found yourself in extremely hot water for a remark like that!

I live in Little Tel Aviv down here. Shabbat is great!

[RBAGE]

Assuming that the C&L website is accurate and up-to-date and quote from the homepage... 

 

"Office will be closed from 14th June until 27th June 2018 as I only have three days to prepare for the Perth show after the GCR event."

I know I'll be criticised for saying so but it's a strange way to run a business.

 

If I have to rely on the shows that Phil attends in the North East of England, I'm stuffed.

 

No doubt when he returns from Bonny Scotland, there will be a further 2 weeks of orders to catch back.

[gismorail]

Did anyone a have a chat with Phil at the GCR event and what sort of stock levels were present ...I ask this as I will have to make a choice soon as what type of track work will be purchased for my proposed 0 gauge layout. I too have tried phoning over several weeks but without success which does not fill me with a great deal of confidence . 

[muddys-blues]

Did anyone a have a chat with Phil at the GCR event and what sort of stock levels were present ...I ask this as I will have to make a choice soon as what type of track work will be purchased for my proposed 0 gauge layout. I too have tried phoning over several weeks but without success which does not fill me with a great deal of confidence . 

 

Hello Martin, I am still awaiting answer on my query I made on the 12th June .... 

 

Best regards

Craig.

[RBAGE]

We experienced the same issues 12 months ago and were advised by those in the know that it would take time to sort the business out after the state of things following the transfer.

 

Are things any better after 12 months?

 

Having spoken to Phil on a number of times, he doesn't seem to be a person who would take his customers for granted but that's the way it feels. It seems that mail order customers will wait while Phil concentrates on exhibitions. Yes, it is his business but with no alternative source of track components there is little incentive to improve the customer service.

[Melly]

This whole thread saddens me.  E-commerce revolutionaised our hobby in the 2000's . . . . it allowed niche products to be made available to a wide customer base quickly, efficiently and when needed within individual modelling projects and time-lines.  Focussing on shows (seasonal and limited to weekends (I shift work with one weekend off every 7 weeks as will many others)) is a "nice to do" but shouldn't be the primary point of sale.  Reading this thread I get the feeling that it's been a massive step back in meeting customer demand (and customer confidence) at C&L and if that demand (and confidence) cannot be met (as it was before) the customer will seek alternate products.  The Exactoscale 'fast-track' bases will be a sad loss to the Hobby if they do not endure and I genuinely fear for the long term profitability and viability of C&L.

 

Best wishes to Phil with the challenges ahead and credit to Hayfield for mounting, at times, an un-defendable defence !! 

 

Regards to all

 

M

Edited June 19, 2018 by Melly

[sharris]

Maybe if Exactoscale can provide a supply of components independently of C&L the competition will spur both on to provide a more reliable service. Oddly enough, last time I bought components at C&L (at ExpoEM) Phil was pushing me in the direction of the Exactoscale components.

[polybear]

The advantage of shows seems to me to be that they:

1.  Offer a "shop-window" to potential customers for products on offer.

2.  Enable the seller to sell a lot of stock in a short period of time, whilst at the same time enabling the purchaser to avoid delivery costs.

3.  The seller makes sales without having to pack things for postage.

 

- In particular this last point must be a real bonus, as anyone who's sold on Ebay etc. can testify just how time-consuming packing things up can be.

[martin_wynne]

The advantage of shows seems to me to be that they:

1.  Offer a "shop-window" to potential customers for products on offer.

2.  Enable the seller to sell a lot of stock in a short period of time, whilst at the same time enabling the purchaser to avoid delivery costs.

3.  The seller makes sales without having to pack things for postage.

 

- In particular this last point must be a real bonus, as anyone who's sold on Ebay etc. can testify just how time-consuming packing things up can be.

 

4. No-one can attempt to buy or pay for stuff you haven't got.

 

From my own experience this was the single most time-consuming aspect of mail order.

 

Nowadays that can be fixed -- the web site shows "out of stock" and won't let anyone order. But that requires someone who is comfortable with the technology.

 

Martin.

Edited June 20, 2018 by martin_wynne

[Lecorbusier]

4. No-one can attempt to buy or pay for stuff you haven't got.

 

From my own experience this was the single most time-consuming aspect of mail order.

 

Nowadays that can be fixed -- the web site shows "out of stock" and won't let anyone order. But that requires someone who is comfortable with the technology.

 

Martin.

Presumably the phone is also a good option from this standpoint. Then placing an order is similar to a 'shop' .... you talk to the vendor, find out the 'what', 'why' & 'wherefore' and then make your purchase.

 

One of the problems with the internet is that there is no relationship between buyer and seller .... so long as all goes well then no worry, but as soon as things are no longer straightforward everything depends on the sophistication of the system (and customer services). The Alan Gibson Workshop appears to have system which works?