NEW OO gauge Crowdfunded Class 92 initiative

[PaulCheffus]

The major players don't ask for the goods to be paid for up front, can you imagine the outcry if they did. Other small manufacturers did not ask for "crowd funding", SLW produced their excellent Class 24 and then asked for payment if one wished to buy. I still think punters are daft paying for something that does not exist.(btw what is the cost of this model £150, £170 ?) and we are still waiting for the Hattons King OK it's pre -order

 

I don't think holidays are quite the same thing as the not so daft people take full travel insurance in case something goes wrong and/or the company ends up bust.

 

Mike

Hi

 

Major players have a large amount of capital behind them.

 

Now was I daft parting with my money for the Revolution TEA? If I hadn't then I wouldn't have such exquisite models now.

 

Your choice of course but I will continue to support these types of ventures if they are aiming to produce something I want.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Edited October 28, 2016 by PaulCheffus

[njee20]

The company they pledged support to (not invested in...) has breeched the kickstarter terms and conditions, simple as that.

Maybe. So what, doesn't get you a refund or a product. Not being flippant, they didn't run off with the money, they tried for years, had a working prototype, expected to deliver finished products in May, but just couldn't get it across the line. They can't magic money, nor a finished product, whatever the Ts & Cs. Company dissolves, it's a virtual certainty you're never getting anything back.

 

An established business is, of course, far less likely to fail anyway, and KS updated their terms and conditions a few years ago to attempt to offer more protection to backers.

 

Anywho, we've totally digressed from the topic at hand, although it's keeping it on the front page of the forum whilst Dave suns himself!

 

Getting back, mildly, OT. I don't really have too many qualms about backing a company I believe in and trust. Crowdfunding certainly has a place, and as mentioned above the Revolution TEAs are testament to that.

Edited October 28, 2016 by njee20

[MGR Hooper!]

I still think punters are daft paying for something that does not exist.

 

Mike

 

I would hardly think "punters" would be the best word to describe someone, after all we know what Dave can and cannot do! So I cannot call this a gamble.

 

On the other hand what's life without taking any gambles? I'm sure DJ has what it takes to produce a great model. Yes there's been times where I've been less than impressed by what he said/done, but he's also proven his abilities before!

Edited November 1, 2016 by MGR Hooper!

[Nile_Griffith]

Going out on a limb here, but isn't crowd funding really just an extension of an old idea? How many victorian industrialists and contemporary manufacturing businesses, got their start by coming up with a business notion and then managed to talk, usually family and friends, into stumping enough cash for them to give that idea a go? 

 

I'm sure a few nay sayers on here would be the first to commend the Victorian sense of enterprise that made Britain great.......... Blah Blah Blah Blah! The reality is that in that situation those people were lucky enough to have them selves in part of a crowd that had some cash!!!!

 

But what of us that don't find ourselves surrounded by the well heeled and well keeled, cash rich people willing to take a punt on our business idea? Enter stage left.... crowd funding....... Same old idea, just a new set of clothes.

[frobisher]

I don't think holidays are quite the same thing as the not so daft people take full travel insurance in case something goes wrong and/or the company ends up bust.

And again, the properly run (and I'm counting this as one of them) crowdfunding exercises only take your money if the project has the funds to proceed (or refunds if it doesn't). In theory, somewhat better than a holiday in which you're having to pay for an extra thing that you only need if things go pearshaped...

[frobisher]

I would hardly think "punters" would be the best word to describe someone, and what's life without taking any gambles? I'm sure DJ has what it takes to produce a great model. Yes there's been times where I've been less than impressed by what he said/done, but he's also proven his abilities before!

You got the Funny for the irony spot But assume an Agree as well...

[Tricky-CRS]

The major players don't ask for the goods to be paid for up front, can you imagine the outcry if they did.  Other small manufacturers did not ask for "crowd funding", SLW produced their excellent Class 24 and then asked for payment if one wished to buy.  I still think punters are daft paying for something that does not exist.(btw what is the cost of this model £150, £170 ?) and we are still waiting for the Hattons King OK it's pre -order

 

I don't think holidays are quite the same thing as the not so daft people take full travel insurance in case something goes wrong and/or the company ends up bust.

 

Mike

 

If you pay with your credit card you may have cove, so it is similar to a holiday. The big difference here is that holiday companies have gone bust with people paid up sometime £1000s some stuck on holiday kicked out of hotels, That is the only reason you now have holiday insurance, on offer here is a product worth less than £200 which you could protect by paying through your credit card. If enough of these projects fail, I am sure some bright spark rip off merchant insurance company will be along to offer you a policy. On Kickstarter I have backed over 80 projects to date only 2 have not delivered, which is a shame but it is a risk.

[mikeharvey22]

On Kickstarter the number of pledges and their value is transparent. I have a feeling that helps people feel confident in who they are backing, just as backing projects from a previously successful project team encourages trust in their second, third and fourth projects. I have only one I have backed where the project team has fallen short on their promise, although there are a couple where it was touch and go with the team having to learn fast what it means to be spending someone else's money.

 

Back in the 1970s - 1990s in France it was popular for proposers to request early instalments to subscribe to an over-hyped product, many of which never saw the light of day. The subscribers had no recourse to recover the funds which in practice were not ring-fenced, and had been diverted to other more commercial ends. When I was selling replacement brass coach sides for French N back at the end of the 2000s I had people who wanted to pay upfront with their pre-order. I was not happy to do that so bank-rolled each set of sides myself. In the event everyone (except 1 person) who pre-ordered paid on the nail amounting to several hundred buyers, some 1000s of units, over a 3 year programme. These sides were a hobby for me, only intended to break-even financially and I only made things I wanted. Although a classic crowd-funded model would probably have worked I would have been uncomfortable with having custody of the funds, in case for any reason I had been unable to deliver.

[Kelly]

If you pay with your credit card you may have cove, so it is similar to a holiday. The big difference here is that holiday companies have gone bust with people paid up sometime £1000s some stuck on holiday kicked out of hotels, That is the only reason you now have holiday insurance, on offer here is a product worth less than £200 which you could protect by paying through your credit card. If enough of these projects fail, I am sure some bright spark rip off merchant insurance company will be along to offer you a policy. On Kickstarter I have backed over 80 projects to date only 2 have not delivered, which is a shame but it is a risk.

That protection is null and void when paid via a payment processor like PayPal.

 

And presently you'd need to have paid £100 on a credit card directly for any liability to exist with credit card company.

[Steven B]

I thought credit cards gave you protection on any purchases over £100 as long as you pay some of it on the credit card. I.e. you could pay the first installment or even just a couple of quid with a credit card and pay the rest in cash and you'd still be protected.

 

Happy modelling

 

Steven B

[miles73128]

No. Not when you used a 3rd party payment vehicle, like PayPal, World Pay etc.

 

I thought credit cards gave you protection on any purchases over £100 as long as you pay some of it on the credit card. I.e. you could pay the first installment or even just a couple of quid with a credit card and pay the rest in cash and you'd still be protected.

 

Happy modelling

 

Steven B

[srihaggis]

We've covered this already. Read the beginning of the thread again.

[mikeharvey22]

We've covered this already. Read the beginning of the thread again.

I thought the previous discussion (way back) was about paying directly with a credit card, not via a payment processor like Paypal or WorldPay. After making the point of saying people were protected if they paid by credit card I was surprised that DJM switched to Paypal, where different charge back arrangements apply.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/113931-new-oo-gauge-crowdfunded-class-92-initiative/?p=2416462

Edited October 30, 2016 by mikeharvey22

[miles73128]

Clearly other people havent......

We've covered this already. Read the beginning of the thread again.

[eagle50043]

Hi Dave,

 

I have recently paid the £30 deposit for the class 92.........ive just tried trying to find an order confirmation on email and cant find it anywhere,

and as I cant log-in to any account like I would for, say, Kernow, I cant double check....

 

I know you busy, but any chance you could confirm I have my order for 92030 R/F Distribution ?

 

regards,

Steven Allen

[Hilux5972]

Hi Dave,

 

I have recently paid the £30 deposit for the class 92.........ive just tried trying to find an order confirmation on email and cant find it anywhere,

and as I cant log-in to any account like I would for, say, Kernow, I cant double check....

 

I know you busy, but any chance you could confirm I have my order for 92030 R/F Distribution ?

 

regards,

Steven Allen

He is over seas until the 4th I believe so you may have a few more days wait for that confirmation.

[amwells]

You should also have had a receipt email from PayPal?

[pheaton]

Section 75 for the people who are unsure....

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-acti

 

Is PayPal the only way you can pay djmodels?

Edited November 1, 2016 by pheaton

[adb968008]

I think some people are missing the spirit of a crowdfunder.. [edit @1540] kick starter... [/edit]

It's quite simple.. someone with lots of enthusiasm, with knowledge asks for a show of hands if they, like him are "me too" for one of those. If enough people say "I'm in" and are prepared to stump up... it'll happen.

If not, it won't.
It should not be about stocks, shares, making a profit for the buyer or how to screw over the guy making it if it doesn't.

If you think buying in advance is too much risk, then sit back, a retailer might do a limited edition and other manufacturer might come along and do one, but they probably won't be the versions proposed by the initiator and could well cost more, take longer and of unknown quality. You additionally have the benefit of contributing to the end product by being part of the discussion, that's the benefit of taking a risk.

Fwiw I have a Hornby class 71, but I know the DJ version when it comes along will have more of a story to it and the archive of its inception is in these threads for everyone to read in the future, I have 2 DJ71's on order and a 74. Fun isn't just handing over your cc and getting the 10 minutes running in "out of the box".

Edited November 1, 2016 by adb968008

[Nile_Griffith]

Things I love about this hobby. People with Imagination, innovation, respect and integrity.

 

Things I hate about this hobby. People with little foresight and the general view that the world owes them something.

 

Think this thread is binging both types out in full.

 

Sorry of this offends.

 

Just my own personal point of view and not representative  of the views held by the management....... blah blah blah....... terms and conditions apply, blah blah blah.......... usual disclaimers attached......... sale price ends in 30 days............... please consult the bill payer before downloading....

[njee20]

I think some people are missing the spirit of a kick starter

Sorry to be horribly pedantic, but Kickstarter are a platform (read: company) to help companies/individuals/entities with crowdfunding. What Dave is doing is crowdfunding, and is nothing to do with Kickstarter.

[MGR Hooper!]

Sorry to be horribly pedantic, but Kickstarter are a platform (read: company) to help companies/individuals/entities with crowdfunding. What Dave is doing is crowdfunding, and is nothing to do with Kickstarter.

Well we know what he meant or what he was trying to convey.

[njee20]

Well we know what he meant or what he was trying to convey.

That's the horribly pedantic part

 

There are distinctions though, which risk taking us further off topic, again.

 

So... class 92s!

[DJM Dave]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm back now from my jaunts to the east....then to the west (or further to the east) if you look at the globe.

 

Anyway, i'm delighted to say chassis testing on both gauges of class 92 is complete and i'm hoping to further surprise people interested in both gauges just before Warley weekend.  

 

Cad/Cam's on both models is progressing and there is lots of detail that i feel confident will place it among the top models available RTR in both gauges.

It's worth remembering that although i do a lot of the design work here in the UK, and as a UK company doing this full time, not part time, i have access to all the engineers that have aided me to win 16 award winning model of the year awards, either as a stand alone owner or as an employee of my last company.

 

With this experience, you can guarantee that all my knowledge and ability is going into both models to set new standards in RTR OO and N gauge locomotives.

 

Anyway, back to the 92. The detail going into this model is exemplary, and will rank with some of the North American models in terms of etches, detail, replacement / alternate parts, running, features and livery application.

 

I have been asked a lot of questions on the projects while i've been away and will spend some of tomorrow collating and answering these questions, putting it as a Q & A on my website and on here tomorrow in both N and OO gauge sections.

 

Cheers

Dave

[DJM Dave]

Hi everyone,

 

I'll be announcing some important details on Saturday morning and unveiling some nice drawings of this project.

 

Please pop by for a look on here.

 

Cheers

Dave