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Hornby Class 87 - Confirmed Newly Tooled Version for 2017 !

ThaneofFife

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E3109

E3109

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3ft 9 1/2 in, so 1156mm

 

1156 divided by 76.2 = 15.17mm in 4mm scale.

 

Some sources quote 3ft 9 1/4 in, either way it's within the parameters of tyre turning.

 

15mm dia it is then ;-)

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wombatofludham

wombatofludham

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Or even worse.....

 

attachicon.gif87_012_02.jpg

 

There's an idea.  "Dear RBS, would you like to sponsor my acquisition of a Hornby Class 87?  In return for a hefty bung (and let's face it, you lot are very familiar with that concept...) I promise to rename one after your august - sorry, I just wet myself laughing at what I just typed, I had to pop out for some new underwear - erm - slightly iffy criminal gang - sorry, bank, and hereby promise to put a picture of it up on Facebook and RM Web.  Just think of the positive publicity!  Which, I'm sure you would agree, is something you badly need.  A couple of hundred sovs should do it but if you feel you would like to add several noughts onto the end of that, as you seemingly do with your bonuses, feel free.  For that I might even take it to Pendeford Yard to feature in the top rated YouTube hit, "Pendeford Yard Today".  A lot cheaper than 30 seconds on Sky 1 or donations to various political parties!

 

​Go on, it makes more business sense than any of your post bail-out plans have made.

 

​Yours,

Mark"

 

I'm not proud, I'll take anyone's slush money.

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298

298

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First RTR maybe, but some of us got there over 30 years ago :) .

Here are a few examples:

 

attachicon.giffreightlinersmall.jpg

 

attachicon.gifM6bridgesmall.jpg

 

[Edit]: I should also add the pans shown were being used as well...

One anniversary that I was waiting for but managed to completely pass me by was yesterday (a local football team managed to win the FA cup a day later), I was home from school early after having to visit the Orthodontist to have a brace fitted and so got to see some earlier Childrens TV, and there was a model railway layout on the BBC's "Corners". I was a GWR enthusiast at the time and wasn't really interested in modelling the contemporary local scene, but something must have piqued my interest as seven years later at University, I joined a local club who had taken on High Gill's successor.

 

AFAIK the layout changed hands a number of times and certainly existed for a good few years in the Essex/ Southend area, so may still exist....

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ThaneofFife

ThaneofFife

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As somebody pointed out earlier names werent applied until 1978 so on the br blue version i would say the battery box will be the same colour as the rest of the underframe. Im sure the large box on the roof was also shown in white in the magazine but i dare say Hornby will colour the whole roof area in grey just like their last Limby models which is fine......

 

Looking forward to seeing further updates on the 87 progress in particular the AEC cross arm type pantograph.

 

One other thought for the early version is not to fit overly bright white LEDs for the lights as the lights during this period were not particularly bright with only the original central headlight being the brighter.

 

Spotting on the platforms at Marston Green in the late 70s you could tell a class 87 was coming from up to a mile away each way with the distinctive 3 light layout.

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Gordon H

Gordon H

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One anniversary that I was waiting for but managed to completely pass me by was yesterday (a local football team managed to win the FA cup a day later), I was home from school early after having to visit the Orthodontist to have a brace fitted and so got to see some earlier Childrens TV, and there was a model railway layout on the BBC's "Corners". I was a GWR enthusiast at the time and wasn't really interested in modelling the contemporary local scene, but something must have piqued my interest as seven years later at University, I joined a local club who had taken on High Gill's successor.

 

AFAIK the layout changed hands a number of times and certainly existed for a good few years in the Essex/ Southend area, so may still exist....

 

For another historical broadcasting link, construction of 'High Gill' commenced on the day that 'Essex Radio' started.

I still have a copy of the 'Corners' programme recorded at the time (1987), and have the section of particular interest as a separate file - for my own viewing, of course.

The presenter is now flogging over-50's life insurance on TV.

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MGR Hooper!

MGR Hooper!

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Just out of interest, did an article about the Class 87's development feature in the Jan 2017 issue of the Hornby Magazine? If so are copies still available to buy?

 

There is more on the Class 87 in the January issue of Hornby Magazine, and we'll be covering the development in more detail in a future edition of The Engine Shed.

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/stop-press-exclusive-warley-announcement/

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brushman47544

brushman47544

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Like this bit (I think it's the battery charger)...?

 

http://www.theaylesburynews.com/images/87001%20new%201973.JPG

 

I think they're taking this "as built/when new" concept a bit too literally and will end up getting caught out by such details.

 

Hornby does have that (annoying) habit. They do it on the Brit and 4MT as well.

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ThaneofFife

ThaneofFife

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im sure the answer is no but did any 87s carry over their cross arm pans AFTER receiving repaints into the early inter city/executive colours or was it at that exact same time they got the brecknell willis pans fitted?

 

just wondering if there was ever an 87 wearing the later mid-life liveries but still retaining the cross arm pans................if I am wrong then I would love to see some pics. 

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GordonC

GordonC

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im sure the answer is no but did any 87s carry over their cross arm pans AFTER receiving repaints into the early inter city/executive colours or was it at that exact same time they got the brecknell willis pans fitted?

 

just wondering if there was ever an 87 wearing the later mid-life liveries but still retaining the cross arm pans................if I am wrong then I would love to see some pics. 

 

I'm struggling to think of the early repaints but I thought 87006, 87012 and 87018 were among the early ones in 1984 onwards. 87006 looks like it had the single arm pantograph in its battleship grey livery. 87012 looks similar and bingo .....

 

87018

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tibshelf/10992049206/in/photolist-hKk8gL-cp1FWS-RpniN3-9wxVpN-m2Cb7a-8pSErj-bVF58j-aDeRqZ-bv5iZm-mvJnrd-a6EueR-eaer1v-BbyE6D-qqP5Uv-aUzsmH-bZAHLb-85KKRL-85P2Bi-a6xifC-gtJSSD-rz4fY2-q9zw1v-br3A8A-c9fW3L-9zzhyi-9vChLs-qGtdBU-pT4gHz-FHBV8r-rLbT5s-RoD9gT-hrjmWw-DXn45p-dM29KF-9zzjB2-7xwy5F-8KM9z3-8GSwLk-5dHNaE-9sAT87-96ziHG-oMyusm-q292P9-dga6M5-gtJ9RB-jWPTop-pY9NnH-8wBMDn-a5LXhs-qWiSJp

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GordonC

GordonC

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by June it looked like it was swapped though

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/68729621@N03/12434994813/in/photolist-jWQAJi-8MpmYo-e2FLzU-fyXEwd-E67nEo-hKk8gL

 

I think that might've been the only one though ... and only briefly

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MGR Hooper!

MGR Hooper!

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by June it looked like it was swapped though

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/68729621@N03/12434994813/in/photolist-jWQAJi-8MpmYo-e2FLzU-fyXEwd-E67nEo-hKk8gL

 

I think that might've been the only one though ... and only briefly

 

Hornby can actually do both, make one model with say the BW panto and have the crossarm panto as a spare in the box or sold via the website for those who really want said model with a crossarm pantograph  :jester:

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ThaneofFife

ThaneofFife

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Ha. So it was a rare sight indeed then. Good cop with the camera of 87018.

 

Hopefully the pans will be readily available as spares. Owners of other older models would surely love a decent cross arm pan for their class 86's from Heljan and Hornby or even the old 87s.

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Legend

Legend

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Very nice, but I hope someone persuades them to ditch the white battery box on the blue one. It might be as delivered but certainly wouldn't have lasted that way for long.

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ThaneofFife

ThaneofFife

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Ive looked over the 3D renders too today and I thank Hornby for the regular updates.
The corridor windows look slightly too small and boxy rather than rectangular. They look too high. Would it be ok to attach a screenshot of the render for 87035 to show others for their thoughts?
It could be that Hornby have the exact dimensions and positioning but its maybe not come out too well on the render....

I am also looking closely at the bogies....something in that area is niggling me but cant quite pinpoint it yet.....it might look better sat on a piece of track (perhaps the flanges are making the wheels appear much larger) but they do look oversized to my eye in the same way the wheels looked on the old Limby 87.  The wheels on the Lima model I would suggest were smaller as just looked "right" sat on the track........anyway one poster earlier suggested scale diameter for the 87s wheels should be 15mm.  Can Hornby advise on the diameter?

 

As the BR blue version is based on its 1978 condition not sure if the orange cantrail stripe between both cabs would have featured??? 

 

On a few positive notes;

 

1.  the buffer shanks appear to be bare metal or at least painted to look like bare metal rather than left black which is a good to see as these parts were regularly moved and kept clean and shiny and I always felt we might have seen this small but nonetheless very authentic detail a lot sooner from other manufacturers with their D&E's.

2.  the pan appears to sit nice and low on the roof when clipped out of use.

3.  the cab interiors look like they are painted in grey. 

4.  the blue and yellow colours on 87035 look bang on.

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scottrains29

scottrains29

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I still think its stupid to release 87010 in exactly the same number and livery combination as the earlier Limby model

 

I completely agree!

 

I am a little surprised that Hornby haven't altered the number after being made aware of this some time ago. I think Hornby have only ever released two Limby class 87's so to release the exact same number, name and livery combination again does seem rather odd. The Limby version runs well, is DCC ready, has NEM couplings and after a little detailing and weathereing looks the part too. Like many people I cannot justify buying a more updated version of the exact same loco.

 

I get the feeling Hornby don't bother to check their back catalogue before picking a loco to model, escpecially when it comes to electrics. Last year Hornby were going to produce R3474 Virgin 90015 'The International Brigades'. The thing is, they had already released this model a few years back as R2109B. The 'new' model would have been exactly the same but with the limby motor bogie. As the old model is still readily available on the second hand market, it made no sense to release it. Unsurprisingly, the model was cancelled apparently due to poor pre-orders.

 

I hope Hornby can change the number before it gets to production, otherwise i'll be giving this one a miss and hold out for a Virgin example.

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MGR Hooper!

MGR Hooper!

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Ive looked over the 3D renders too today and I thank Hornby for the regular updates.

The corridor windows look slightly too small and boxy rather than rectangular. They look too high. Would it be ok to attach a screenshot of the render for 87035 to show others for their thoughts?

It could be that Hornby have the exact dimensions and positioning but its maybe not come out too well on the render....

 

I am also looking closely at the bogies....something in that area is niggling me but cant quite pinpoint it yet.....it might look better sat on a piece of track (perhaps the flanges are making the wheels appear much larger) but they do look oversized to my eye in the same way the wheels looked on the old Limby 87.  The wheels on the Lima model I would suggest were smaller as just looked "right" sat on the track........anyway one poster earlier suggested scale diameter for the 87s wheels should be 15mm.  Can Hornby advise on the diameter?

 

As the BR blue version is based on its 1978 condition not sure if the orange cantrail stripe between both cabs would have featured??? 

 

1) After looking at quite a few pictures, the corridor windows seem to line up quite well to me. But please do post pictures regarding what you pointed out. It looks right to me

 

2) Again from numerous pictures I just looked at the wheels looked just about right. There's two factors affecting this, number one is what you pointed out i.e. it's not sat on a track and therefore the OO gauge flange gives it a bigger appearance and secondly that bare metal look will also brighten up that area making it look bigger. A touch of black/grimy paint will look better. Maybe one of those photoshop gurus can help us there.

 

3) Are you suggesting that the orange cantrail should or shouldn't be there. I saw two pictures of a Class 87 from the period, one was clear enough to see no orange stripe and the Hornby artwork shows no orange stripe at all.

 

Most of my referencing was done using this picture https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7018/6493614289_99ac397fab_b.jpg

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MGR Hooper!

MGR Hooper!

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Much debated topic about 87010 "King Arthur", I am in the minority group who don't think their choice of number is a bad choice. Yes I am perfectly aware of what was released before, but IMHO the older ex-Lima Class 87 did scrub up well, but had loads of areas to be improved. This re-tool is miles ahead and the older model was simple RailRoad standard. I see it as being aimed for 2 totally different markets and hence why the choice of numbers didn't bother me. As a fairly RailRoad spec model being sold in the main range at the time the customer base was basically children (of different age groups) and modelers who were content with the model and then those who were happy to detail and repaint/renumber. The newer model will almost exclusively be for collectors and the more enthusiastic modeler who loves super detail stuff. I'm sure those who really want one will be happy to renumber it. If it doesn't sell well won't that benefit us by ending up in the bargain bins? It all boils down to the fact that to me both the Class 87s were of totally different specs.

 

One poster even tried to draw a comparison to a previous announcement regarding a Hornby Virgin Trains Class 90 "The International Brigades", I render that comparison worthless because the Hornby Class 90 has seen very little change. Most of the changes were internal (DCC ready and motor) and the only external difference was a coupling. Obviously in that case if there was a product re-released that was identical then sales are low. The Class 87 is two different specs. Could also be the fact that Hornby are happy with the pre-order sales and therefore not made a change? Bachmann will also not lose sales if they did their "yet to be designed" Class 90 in the same Virgin Trains "The International Brigades" livery. It's straight forward, the models are of two different specs. There'll be many who'll jump to put their existing ones on eBay and buy the newer and superior one.

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ThaneofFife

ThaneofFife

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We get that the models are of much better spec but thats not a valid enough reason to leave the other 35 numbers if you count 87101 off the drawing board.

Now i would agree with you if we was say talking about an old Model vs new of 89001 or even 87006 in its one off LL livery but not a generic livery.

 

On the other hand you may be right if Hornby have had enough pre orders then why would they change it. Me though i find the choice of number very odd.

 

Hornby are also headlining the numbers being "Tampo" printed. Whats the deal with this method as I dont get whats so good about it......

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