Hornby Class 87 - Confirmed Newly Tooled Version for 2017 !

[298]

3) Are you suggesting that the orange cantrail should or shouldn't be there. I saw two pictures of a Class 87 from the period, one was clear enough to see no orange stripe and the Hornby artwork shows no orange stripe at all.

Most of my referencing was done using this picture https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7018/6493614289_99ac397fab_b.jpg

Dud photo- without too much digging, it is obviously the preserved 87002 at Carlisle and will therefore have to follow current regs regarding safety markings.

 

Some AC's did get a safety warning stripe just below the centre roof section long before it became mandatory, colours varied from white through to Orange and what might have even been Railfreight Red and the lines were often a lot thicker than the current standard.

 

Not that I'm complaining about doing their job for them, but Hornby need to show a prototype photo of the intended models with the date it was taken, instead of assuming every loco was delivered with white battery chargers. For them to even consider a named blue loco would mean modelling a loco that has been in traffic for a couple of years and therefore not the same as the first "as built" photos of 87001 at Crewe in 1973 that they seem so hung up over.

[298]

Will the unique 87101 surface as a limited edition?

It depends if they think the tooling changed would be worthwhile...

[Clearwater]

Given the names the class were given were a mix of ex-princess coronation, Britannia and P2 amongst others, you'd think someone in Hornby marketing would have their eye on some bundled "collector" packs - e.g. The two city of Birminghams or Britannias or Cock O the North.

 

A wcml through the ages with a coronation, 87 and pendolino would be interesting too

 

David

[ThaneofFife]

The thought process behind deciding which livery and number to go for would be interesting to know.........

 

87005 City of London and 87006 City of Glasgow would make a great BR Blue twin pack - the major hubs linked by the route of the Electric Scots but I'll concede that 005 has been done before under the Lima brand......

[wombatofludham]

I'm with the acrobatic MGR here, I really don't see why the choice of "King Arthur" is getting a nest of wasps up people's gussetts.  For me the key things are (1) Shape (2) well nourished bogies (3) running ability (4) ease of fitting DCC sound.  Name and number are irrelevant, partly because I'm needing three of the things and I really don't want three King Arthurs as that would be silly, but more importantly I simply can't see people buying the new spec super whizz-bang 87 and keeping their Limby "King Arthur" which uses a base model which was new when I was at secondary school, and I'm 54 now.  Do we really think the rabid kettleistas kept their ancient Triang born LNER B12s when Hornby released their new version?  As has been said, the two 87 models are poles apart and to be honest if you are going to be spending money on a new spec 87 you won't want to run it alongside the old version as it'll be like trying to decide whether to put a bet on a sleek Arabian stallion or the milkman's old nag to win the Grand National.  No contest.

 

The one good thing about the Swallow livery is the numbers are near the cab bottom so if you do make a Horlicks of the T-Cut removing the Tampo printing you've only got a little patch up job which can be hidden by weathering.  So long as you choose a name longer than "King Arthur" you should be fine just sticking the new nameplate over the old one as well.

 

I like the idea of twin packs of Corries or Britannias and 87s, I'm sure Hornby will be thinking along the same lines. 

[298]

Given the names the class were given were a mix of ex-princess coronation, Britannia and P2 amongst others, you'd think someone in Hornby marketing would have their eye on some bundled "collector" packs - e.g. The two city of Birminghams or Britannias or Cock O the North.

A wcml through the ages with a coronation, 87 and pendolino would be interesting too

David

I have two Lord of the Isles...

[Mike at C&M]

3) Are you suggesting that the orange cantrail should or shouldn't be there. I saw two pictures of a Class 87 from the period, one was clear enough to see no orange stripe and the Hornby artwork shows no orange stripe at all.

Two for the price of one.

 

On the left, 87.005 "City of London" with orange cantrail stripe and a Brecknell-Willis pantograph. To the right, 87.023 "Highland Chieftain", with orange cantrail stripe and the cross-arm pantograph. Unfortunately, I don't have the date to hand for this picture.

 

 

I have no decent pictures of Class 87s taken before naming, but all those I have where they are in BR Blue after naming show the orange cantrail stripe.

[Redford73]

To add to earlier comments on this thread I would prefer an un-named version as I cannot recall any release without a name on either the 87s (or for that matter the 86s). 

 

It seems Hornby and Lima missed out on a huge period in these electrics use when they were not named and it would be easier to add a nameplate supplied separately than to remove one fitted and 'repair' the bodyside. 

 

Am looking forward to the release in any event and will definitely buy one to add to the Hornby (Lima re-release) of 'Britannia' which I currently have.

[ThaneofFife]

interestingly from the above photo one 87 has the stripe continue along the cab drip rail whereas the other 87 with the original pan has the stripe stop at the cabs inner end.

[ThaneofFife]

actually that might be a trick of the light in that shot as I have never seen the stripe run along just the drip rails.MLI issue 199 there is an image dated May 1978 with no stripe on 87014.

87026 two months after its naming in July 1978 with no stripe.

if the order was naming first then if 035 is being modelled as per its naming date then I suppose it would be correct to have no stripe but I would like it if Hornby published a photo of this actual loco from the period on which its based.

[ThaneofFife]

yes that's very unusual......not a look I like.   its not a clean look.

 

personal pref is if the model matched Bachmanns 85026 that has the stripe between cabs but its not a big deal and wont put me off buying.  I think the 87s gained the stripe between late 78 and early 80.

 

If I was a betting man I would say that those modelling the Virgin red/black era will be catered for next to but it would be good to get my hands on an executive livery 87 with the half grey cab fronts.

[newbryford]

With all the paint/name and other detail differences mentioned above, who would want to be a manufacturer?

 

As no doubt which ever version they bring out it will be "wrong" for someone else that wants X number with Y livery in Z year.

 

Whatever happened to "modelling"?

 

Cheers,

Mick

[ThaneofFife]

Not again...the dreaded M word surfaces in another thread. That didnt take long.....

[newbryford]

Not again...the dreaded M word surfaces in another thread. That didnt take long.....

 

Manufacturer?

[Legend]

With all the paint/name and other detail differences mentioned above, who would want to be a manufacturer?

 

As no doubt which ever version they bring out it will be "wrong" for someone else that wants X number with Y livery in Z year.

 

Whatever happened to "modelling"?

 

Cheers,

Mick

£169 locomotives, that's what

[toboldlygo]

£169 locomotives, that's what

Don't go giving me ideas

[Roy Langridge]

I did some flickr searching and found a picture of 87005 with gutter only painted orange - very unusual indeed!

 

Not my picture and hope the link works...

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127815237@N05/29144873290/in/photolist-Lpr6rm-pCcv4B-pww55G-M6v1J7-br1y55-7RD5gk-ri9wCa-8NrdUx-GqxfKX-7gULz9-HMKGdo-foD2vR-dDWUDk-9vYGiv-cWHQXj-foTj39-mg3cYa-h4FFEx-cPxYGJ-DhCBGb-hUojHF-m6MQ2f-bLEzzn-oyxURH-9SXSii-9Xi7bZ-7HZKGB-bbmVkR-cTUk2u-pszZEN-i5wQk2-9yREsP-ctTjCb-61wanY-eXY1Ap-gbUrpE-jWyuUV-9vZKpH-e75aaf-b24jee-pS2cKC-ed77La-pf8NcJ-9FgkCV-oY8gNK-a3ognZ-aLtgCB-boW2VK-ezuXWy-de9d4y

I think you will find that in the late 1970s that was quite a common look.

 

Roy

[James Makin]

I think a decently-sprung, scale, robust and workable Brecknell Willis pantograph is almost the single most important thing about this release and not a word about that!

 

If Hornby get that part wrong then we may as well stick to remotoring and detailing the old Lima versions, it's easy enough adding a few loco details, repainting or renumbering your new Hornby 'King Arthur', but scratchbuilding a replacement sprung pantograph - now that frightens me!!

[MGR Hooper!]

I think a decently-sprung, scale, robust and workable Brecknell Willis pantograph is almost the single most important thing about this release and not a word about that!

 

If Hornby get that part wrong then we may as well stick to remotoring and detailing the old Lima versions, it's easy enough adding a few loco details, repainting or renumbering your new Hornby 'King Arthur', but scratchbuilding a replacement sprung pantograph - now that frightens me!!

Personally I'd prefer a poseable pantograph, however if Hornby don't end up with one DJM said he'll be doing what you required for his Class 92. I think the mention of spares was also made.

 

What I dislike is that the cross-arm is sprung and the Brecknell-Willis isn't.

[MGR Hooper!]

The box-artwork images are now added to the Hornby website. Lovely big hi-res images to drool over.

 

 

 

I understand that many people don't want that white (battery box**) thing on the BR Blue variant. I'd suggest contact Paul Isles and sharing your concerns. Don't be rude or blunt, a polite chat will usually get things accomplished. I think if many people share their concerns it'll probably end up black instead of white.

 

Looks to be a stunner, I hope Hornby have made the necessary changes that they and the public noted and I hope it'll be a faithful representation of the Class 87. I look forward to seeing other liveries like Virgin Trains, BR Grey large logo, Cotswold Trains, Caledonian Sleeper, GBRf, Network South-East and DRS in the years to come.

[jonathan452]

The box-artwork images are now added to the Hornby website. Lovely big hi-res images to drool over.

 

R3580 BR Blue Class 87 Robert Burns.jpg

 

R3582 Intercity Class 87 King Arthur.jpg

 

I understand that many people don't want that white (battery box**) thing on the BR Blue variant. I'd suggest contact Paul Isles and sharing your concerns. Don't be rude or blunt, a polite chat will usually get things accomplished. I think if many people share their concerns it'll probably end up black instead of white.

 

Looks to be a stunner, I hope Hornby have made the necessary changes that they and the public noted and I hope it'll be a faithful representation of the Class 87. I look forward to seeing other liveries like Virgin Trains, BR Grey large logo, Cotswold Trains, Caledonian Sleeper, GBRf, Network South-East and DRS in the years to come.

Can you please remind me of the contact details for Paul Isles.

 

Many thanks.

 

The white battery box being akin to the 'Custard Dip' on the Diesel Pullman unit by the 'other manufacturer'.

 

Strictly speaking accurate but only for a very specific limited time frame.

Edited May 22, 2017 by jonathan452

[toboldlygo]

Can you please remind me of the contact details for Paul Isles.

 

Many thanks.

 

The white battery box being akin to the 'Custard Dip' on the Diesel Pullman unit by the 'other manufacturer'.

 

Strictly speaking accurate but only for a very specific limited time frame.

 

He's a member of the forum look up Islesy in the members list

[MGR Hooper!]

Can you please remind me of the contact details for Paul Isles.

 

Many thanks.

 

The white battery box being akin to the 'Custard Dip' on the Diesel Pullman unit by the 'other manufacturer'.

 

Strictly speaking accurate but only for a very specific limited time frame.

toboldlygo has given you Paul Isles' forum name, apart from that contact Hornby via their own Hornby Forums and Hornby's facebook page. The more mentions the better chance you'll have of getting that white changed to black.

[newbryford]

Can you please remind me of the contact details for Paul Isles.

 

Many thanks.

 

The white battery box being akin to the 'Custard Dip' on the Diesel Pullman unit by the 'other manufacturer'.

 

Strictly speaking accurate but only for a very specific limited time frame.

 

But what happens if I want a white battery box..........................?

 

Oh - it's the M word again..........

 

Cheers,

Mick

[VXDH92]

The 87s look absolutely mega! Those wheels look so fine, and a far better representation than the original 3d print mock up's wheels.

 

The pans look excellent, but like others, I am sorely disappointed by the lack of a spring in the Brecknell Willis. I realise this is probably because of the complexity of the mechanics of a single-arm pan (you need a hollow lower arm with an extremely fine chain running through, attached to the upper arm, and also to a spring on the base), but it is a glaring omission on a £170 loco!

 

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that the DJ Models class 92 pan will be any better - I have left a couple of messages on the forum for the OO version, but DJ Dave still hasn't responded.

 

I only want 87s from the Virgin era onwards, but it looks so good in IC Swallow that I am reallllyyyy tempted to get one of those too!

 

Hornby - please give it quick enough gearing to give it scale speed when hauling a full train. I sometimes find all wheel drive Hornby mechanisms a tad on the slow side. Thanks!