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Hornby Princess Coronation Class (Duchess)


Dick Turpin
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There was a short article in Steam Railway magazine a while ago on the scrapping of 46256. It may be apocryphal but it was suggested that the staff at the scrapyard (Cashmores at Tipton?) asked whether 46256 had been dispatched to them by mistake such was its sparkling condition. 

So bloody sad !!

 

Mike

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What is sad was City Of Lancaster was in a scrapyard in Wigan well into 1965. When someone turned up to buy it (Peter Beet I think) they had just scrapped the tender and had starting cutting the rest of the locomotive. He had been after it for a while, but was hampered by BRs reluctance to allow locomotives sold for scrap to be resold. By the time he got permission it was too late.

 

 

 

Jason

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It's me again!

At the end of October 1954,a storm blew in which flooded Carlisle.It was a Saturday and my mother was visiting my Grandad but decided to come into Longniddry to pay our newspaper bill before getting the bus onwards.While we were waiting for the bus a southbound express came through rolling very slowly under caution signals.The locomotive was an unidentified Duchess!.

Many years later I got hold of Trains Illustrated for December 1954.In it was a photograph of 46221 at Polmont on the diverted up Royal Scot taken by WJV Anderson.Ive never seen that photograph again but he photographed the up Queen of Scots there that same day.All Carlisle traffic was sent south to Newcastle behind Duchesses and a Royal Scot so you can have a Duchess alongside a Queen of Scots!

 

There's an article on "The "Royal Scot" at Newcastle" http://www.magazineexchange.co.uk/trains-illustrated-magazine-december-1954-issue.html?&cat=3777. I for one would be interested to know more - does anyone have a copy?

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The last two LMS Ivatt Pacifics, Thompson's Class A2's and Peppercorn's A1 were favorites with publishers for illustrating book covers around 1950 when publishing was taking off once again. We young boys soaked them up of course. It is probably hard to imagine today what it was like then when Britain's railways were still in the public eye and new motive power made for eye-catching images. Works grey worked particularly well at that period because of the poor paper. 

 

Within a couple of years, the all conquering BR Britannia was the new image of BR. 

Edited by coachmann
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So bloody sad !!

 

Mike

 

O/T

Of all the arguments for a new build of extant classes (i.e. occasional calls for another V2, Grelsey A1, Star etc), I would say there is a strong case for an Ivatt Duchess. OK the Coronation class is reasonably well represented in preservation, but to what extent are the Ivatt locos the same class? Are they not considered distinct by some? To build a new Ivatt Duchess would be a further 'missing link' in steam development, and possibly for the LMS, or Tornado proportions as the ultimate development of a long line, albeit a numerically small development. In terms of steam as a whole, they represent the ultimate development of a line that is traced back, the GWR King (and by extension the Star), if we consider the Princess class to be Stanier’s development of the King.

It would also complete the set of Duchesses from Streamlined (Hamilton), 'Proper' (Sutherland), Destreamlined (Birmingham, and protoype Double Chimney), to Ivatt, and be possibly the only class where every varient is preserved (Aside from BR 5MT(?) and BR8P obviously, A4, King), although we'd still lack a single Chimney loco in that form, although the historical potential is there...! Plus it would then be possible to have a BR Maroon Duchess again, an opportunity lost when 6229 was reclad.

 

BoT

The Hornby Ivatt Duchess really looks lovely

Edited by G-BOAF
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O/T

Of all the arguments for a new build of extant classes (i.e. occasional calls for another V2, Grelsey A1, Star etc), I would say there is a strong case for an Ivatt Duchess. OK the Coronation class is reasonably well represented in preservation, but to what extent are the Ivatt locos the same class? Are they not considered distinct by some? To build a new Ivatt Duchess would be a further 'missing link' in steam development, and possibly for the LMS, or Tornado proportions as the ultimate development of a long line, albeit a numerically small development. In terms of steam as a whole, they represent the ultimate development of a line that is traced back, the GWR King (and by extension the Star), if we consider the Princess class to be Stanier’s development of the King.

It would also complete the set of Duchesses from Streamlined (Hamilton), 'Proper' (Sutherland), Destreamlined (Birmingham, and protoype Double Chimney), to Ivatt, and be possibly the only class where every varient is preserved (Aside from BR 5MT(?) and BR8P obviously, A4, King), although we'd lack a single Chimney loco in that form, although the historical potential is there...! Plus it would then be possible to have a BR Maroon Duchess again, an opportunity lost when 6229 was reclad.

 

BoT

The Hornby Ivatt Duchess really looks lovely

I'd happily contribute to any realistic scheme to build a new (4)6256. Only problem I can forsee (give or take raising £4-£5 million and find the skills and workshop capacity to build it!) is that the Duchess being a large loco it might need to be trimmed slightly to keep it gauge friendly for the modern railway. 46233 has found its route availability increasingly restricted this year including on routes where it has run in the very recent past. 

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I'd happily contribute to any realistic scheme to build a new (4)6256. Only problem I can forsee (give or take raising £4-£5 million and find the skills and workshop capacity to build it!) is that the Duchess being a large loco it might need to be trimmed slightly to keep it gauge friendly for the modern railway. 46233 has found its route availability increasingly restricted this year including on routes where it has run in the very recent past. 

Restricted RA is becoming more of a problem for the big locos as the height has been reduced down to IIRC 13' 1" which many large locos exceed.

 

A Duchess in original form was just about 13' 3" tall and across the beam a near on 9' 0"  both of which puts it OOG, see the saga with the King which has just had it's height lopped to get main line certification but now fouls the width restrictions with the same across cylinder measurement. Long locos can have throwover problems as well.

 

Keith

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There's an article on "The "Royal Scot" at Newcastle" http://www.magazineexchange.co.uk/trains-illustrated-magazine-december-1954-issue.html?&cat=3777. I for one would be interested to know more - does anyone have a copy?

Well, it so happens .....

 

What do you want to know? It may be a while before I reply - I have a busy day ahead of me.

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I'll attempt to give a wee bit more info on my previous post for Brushman 47544.It was a Saturday and the Royal Scot,Thames Clyde Express and other trains left Glasgow with their usual locos and worked to Edinburgh thence via Berwick to Newcastle .In all cases Eastern motive power took over- the Royal Scot got a V2 as I recall and the Polmadie locos returned home the same way they came-- on freight trains!

The V2 worked to Leeds as I recall

It stuck in my mind because to get to Longniddry our bus had to negotiate flood water from an overflowing stream - it had been a very wet morning .

The photo of the Queen of Scots is in Power of the A2s by Oxford publishing.

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Here's the article from the December 1954 "Trains Illustrated". I've cut off the picture at the top of it because it might infringe copyright to show it, but I've left the caption.

 

post-1771-0-21286600-1508795778_thumb.jpg

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Thanks to pH for sharing the article.lsold my copy years ago when I was perpetually short of money!So it's nice to see it again

Many thanks

If you are ever at the Severn Valley Railway the Erlestoke Manor fund sales coach at Bewdley has complete years of Trains Illustrated etc from the 50’s and 60’s for sale at very reasonable prices.
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So it would appear the BR Red R3555 Sir William A. Stanier F.R.S locos have arrived at Hornby HQ and will shortly be dispatched, as got an email earlier to say my pre-order was being prepared.  :locomotive: 

 

Cheers

 

Peter

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So it would appear the BR Red R3555 Sir William A. Stanier F.R.S locos have arrived at Hornby HQ and will shortly be dispatched, as got an email earlier to say my pre-order was being prepared.  :locomotive: 

 

Cheers

 

Peter

It’s my birthday on Friday and my wife has agreed to pay for my preorder as this years present. Fingers crossed it might be here by then!. Pretty impressive by Hornby - from announcement to delivery in less than 12 months.

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Guest Midland Mole

So it would appear the BR Red R3555 Sir William A. Stanier F.R.S locos have arrived at Hornby HQ and will shortly be dispatched, as got an email earlier to say my pre-order was being prepared.  :locomotive:

 

Drooling intensifies.... :yahoo:

Alex

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Really looking forward to this release, can't decide whether to put a yellow stripe on it?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! :jester:  :jester:  :jester:  :jester:

 

Mike

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Really looking forward to this release, can't decide whether to put a yellow stripe on it?

 

 

That was my thinking as well. 

 

 

 

Jason

 

What about using a decal set from Fox (or others?). Assuming you don't seal the decal, there is always the option to remove in future... Something to consider given that this loco will sell out. (It is possible that if Hornby re-run 46256 in Maroon, they might do a yellow stripe version to differentiate if from the first release, though I'd guess that a second batch of the Ivatt duchess will likely be 46257 in Green).

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Hey Ilsley, if you are reading this thread(and I suspect you may be) and given your reasons for producing this model, when do you think the revamped Princess will be available, soon I hope.........because I don't want to be in the next world before you do!!

Hattons........... I am waiting for Bill :senile:

 

mike

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