Little Muddle

[BlackRat]

CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE LOCO KIND

 

Premise

 

Early one morning when the mist had receded, a strange sound was heard across the land.

There, lumbering towards each other where two iron beasts snorting steam and groaning whilst travelling along an iron road.

Frighten faces pushed against the dirty glass from their temporary places of confinement looking for signs of freedom.

 

Is this the start on an alien invasion?

 

Frightening ehh........

 

Well not really 

 

Just the 8.01 from Exeter arriving at Encombe Town whilst the auto train trundles in from Little Muddle at the same time.

Not sure why but she seems a little late as the auto train is generally waiting at the bay platform for the link.

 

992 - smoke1.jpg

 

Anyway it makes for an useful picture.

Something seems to be missing from the bottom right hand corner?

 

Or have you cropped off Don Breckons signature?

[GeoffAlan]

Excellent modelling! I envy your talent, and will continue to play with my 'train-set', knowing others can do much better than I can manage.

[The Stationmaster]

I just want to say, without implying any criticism of Stationmaster Mike or Pannier Tank, that I feel really churlish and petty complaining about signalling or pointwork inaccuracies, never mind livery anomalies, on what is one of. the best rendered layouts in terms of buildings, scenery, and lighting that I have ever seen.  Take no notice of us, KNP, or at any rate don't be too bothered by us, we don't get out much...

 

But that is exactly my point - we have a  layout which presents a marvellous, and very believable, visual impression which is very slightly let down by minor distractions such as these.  If you want to get the overall impression 100% right it takes only a couple of very simple things to do that and to me it's a shame to let that chance go by.

[The Johnster]

I am with you in principle there, Mike, but signalling is a daunting prospect to those who are not familiar with it.  Attempts to research it often get you bogged down in block regualations when what is more relevant to modellers is how things worked within station limits, and particularly what a signal 'reads to' and what it protects.  'A couple of very simple things' includes a steep and large learning curve of basic signalling practice, something I am myself not 100% about despite having worked on the WR at a time when semaphore signalling was in common everyday use.  

 

KNP has his signals in the right places and of the right sort as far as I can see, but they are not operational and are 'posed'.  Personally, if I were doing this, I would have them all in the 'on' position, at danger, and live with the trains passing them by imagining that they were 'off', but, as some signals are posed here in the 'off' position, anomalies are bound to occur such as a signal cleared from the main to the branch with a train coming out of the bay and another running in on the opposite road, both across the route it is cleared for.

 

He intends to eventually have them operating, but needs to learn how to do this first before even installing the motors and switches/levers, and that may take some time if he has no operational railway background in semaphore signalling practice on the WR.  Give the lad a bit of time; he'll get there I'm sure, and at that point the layout'll be pretty much unbeatable, and quantum better than anything I could manage!

Edited August 28, 2017 by The Johnster

[KNP]

On 28/08/2017 at 16:41, The Johnster said:

I am with you in principle there, Mike, but signalling is a daunting prospect to those who are not familiar with it.  Attempts to research it often get you bogged down in block regualations when what is more relevant to modellers is how things worked within station limits, and particularly what a signal 'reads to' and what it protects.  'A couple of very simple things' includes a steep and large learning curve of basic signalling practice, something I am myself not 100% about despite having worked on the WR at a time when semaphore signalling was in common everyday use.  

 

KNP has his signals in the right places and of the right sort as far as I can see, but they are not operational and are 'posed'.  Personally, if I were doing this, I would have them all in the 'on' position, at danger, and live with the trains passing them by imagining that they were 'off', but, as some signals are posed here in the 'off' position, anomalies are bound to occur such as a signal cleared from the main to the branch with a train coming out of the bay and another running in on the opposite road, both across the route it is cleared for.

 

He intends to eventually have them operating, but needs to learn how to do this first before even installing the motors and switches/levers, and that may take some time if he has no operational railway background in semaphore signalling practice on the WR.  Give the lad a bit of time; he'll get there I'm sure, and at that point the layout'll be pretty much unbeatable, and quantum better than anything I could manage!

 

Thanks for the words and I think to save any further confusion I will remodel the bracket signal into the 'on' position.

Little bit of fettling here, and a little bit there, shouldn't be to difficult and here is a picture of the naughty signal early days just after finishing it.

 

 

 

Seemed a good idea at the time to have a drooping one???

 

I do agree that the subject is daunting with little if any lateral freedom to do your own thing so I'm pleased that I appear to have got the concept right in a basic sort of way.

Edited March 9 by KNP

[Pannier Tank]

Seemed a good idea at the time to have a drooping one???

 

How about having the "Main Signal" in the "Off" Position and the "Branch Signal" in the "On"  Position ?

[Stubby47]

Just photoshop the arms in on each photo...

 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Stubby47

[KNP]

Just photoshop the arms in on each photo...

 

muddle_signals.jpg

 

What an excellent idea, would save a bit of building time or say.....

 

an even simpler idea make sure it is just out of shot when I take a picture of that area..........!!!

 

It will be changed in the not to distant future. 

[Alister_G]

Just photoshop the arms in on each photo...

 

muddle_signals.jpg

 

Ooh!

 

Lower quadrant signals with the arms raised! :nono:

 

You should be shot at dawn!

 

 

Al.

[KNP]

How about having the "Main Signal" in the "Off" Position and the "Branch Signal" in the "On"  Position ?

 

That's fine but please remember all the control rods (rigid piano wire), crank, levers, counter weights etc. would need to be moved as well and they are fixed at present.

So I'll think I will just stick with the branch signal.......

Edited August 28, 2017 by KNP

[KNP]

Ooh!

 

Lower quadrant signals with the arms raised! :nono:

 

You should be shot at dawn!

 

 

Al.

 

Perhaps they are surrendering?

[The Johnster]

Thanks for the words and I think to save any further confusion I will remodel the bracket signal into the 'on' position.

Little bit of fettling here, and a little bit there, shouldn't be to difficult and here is a picture of the naughty signal early days just after finishing it.

 

809.JPG

 

Seemed a good idea at the time to have a drooping one???

 

I do agree that the subject is daunting with little if any lateral freedom to do your own thing so I'm pleased that I appear to have got the concept right in a basic sort of way.

 

it's never a good idea to have a drooping one, or is that another subject...

 

What an excellent idea, would save a bit of building time or say.....

 

an even simpler idea make sure it is just out of shot when I take a picture of that area..........!!!

 

It will be changed in the not to distant future. 

You can't change it in the not too distant future, it's a starter not a distant...

 

Ok, I'll stop now and take the nice medication, nurse.

[KNP]

4612 at rest waiting to leave the yard ready to take a coal train towards the Bristol area.

 

 

 

All coupled and given the clear so now leaving Little Muddle goods yard for Encombe Town and then onwards with hopefully clear track ahead.

 

 

 

After much kind help and a very useful spreadsheet from Colin (BWs Trains) this loco will be re-number 8752 which is more in keeping with the era this layout depicts.

The top feed will remain and then eventually replaced with a new RTR when one is produced that suits this timescale.

 

 

Edited March 9 by KNP

[The Stationmaster]

I am with you in principle there, Mike, but signalling is a daunting prospect to those who are not familiar with it.  Attempts to research it often get you bogged down in block regualations when what is more relevant to modellers is how things worked within station limits, and particularly what a signal 'reads to' and what it protects.  'A couple of very simple things' includes a steep and large learning curve of basic signalling practice, something I am myself not 100% about despite having worked on the WR at a time when semaphore signalling was in common everyday use.  

 

KNP has his signals in the right places and of the right sort as far as I can see, but they are not operational and are 'posed'.  Personally, if I were doing this, I would have them all in the 'on' position, at danger, and live with the trains passing them by imagining that they were 'off', but, as some signals are posed here in the 'off' position, anomalies are bound to occur such as a signal cleared from the main to the branch with a train coming out of the bay and another running in on the opposite road, both across the route it is cleared for.

 

He intends to eventually have them operating, but needs to learn how to do this first before even installing the motors and switches/levers, and that may take some time if he has no operational railway background in semaphore signalling practice on the WR.  Give the lad a bit of time; he'll get there I'm sure, and at that point the layout'll be pretty much unbeatable, and quantum better than anything I could manage!

 

But there is a pretty useful thread on here which should help (I hope) once you read it through

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48504-gwr-signals-and-where-they-go/page-3

[KNP]

But there is a pretty useful thread on here which should help (I hope) once you read it through

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48504-gwr-signals-and-where-they-go/page-3

 

Will do.

Thanks

[KNP]

For those of you with a sensitive disposition please look away now or forever cause lasting harm to your vision of this wonderful hobby

 

The following picture is for all the followers of the GWR, and any other region come to that, showing to all of us we have got it all wrong regarding train compositions.

 

This morning we were looking after my sons two children, our 5 year granddaughter asked if she could play trains on Grandads' train set........well we'll skip that one for now!!!!

Stop laughing at the back there - I can see you....

 

So I set everything up and yes chaps I had trains running over every part of the layout in the order that looked correct to me........points clicking, trains shunting, wagons moving, carriages departing all looking very prototypical to me

Well - apparently not in the eyes a 5 year old as I had left some 'bits' (her words) behind and they were getting lonely.......

 

From the elevated heights of the chair she was standing on, so she could see everything, she got me to organise a train to her liking.

 

Luckily she seemed to grasp that Grandad was not to happy in organising a triple header of loco's so she choose the 'nice one with little wheels at the front and back' - now there's a good description of a Prairie 4550 - even loco seemed to smile at that description!

(The other problem with a triple header was that Grandad had forgotten how to set one up as this little railway doesn't often see any multi loco trains!!!!!)

 

So ladies and Gentlemen here is a train organised by a 5yr old

 

 

The funny part is that the Prairie actually managed to pull that lot backwards and forwards a few times before she thankfully decided to go downstairs for some sweets.....phew!!!!

 

Now for those of you who wish to run this train on your layout this is her reasoning for the set up.

 

Starting from the right.

 

Toad Gardens Van - that is where the driver sits with a large steering wheel.

Prairie                     - loco that moves everything (well she got bit right) because it has a chimney?

Carriage                  - where she and her friends sit to read their comics!

Van                         - their coats and shoes are kept in here....

Carriage                 - where Mummy and Daddy sit??

Van                        - easy you should get this one.....for Mummy and Daddies coats and shoes...of course!

Coal wagons          - to provide coal for the barbeque (I did question that one but she said they had a lot of burgers to cook......OK I got that one?)

Autocoach             -  you guessed it...... where Nanny and Grandad sit (I asked we appear not to have anywhere for our coats and shoes - answer keep them on.....OK silly question I suppose)

 

So throw all your movement plans, train set ups, timetables and knowledge away, just get a 5 year to organise it.........

 

PS......she'll be back on Thursday and wonts to play again with Grandad's train set..................hoping for a power cut that morning so we can go to the park instead!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

[mullie]

Our now 17 year old had her own train set featuring Thomas, Annie, Clarabel, various old wagons from Daddy's trainset including a 9f, car carrier, and some open wagons that could carry various things. We built Superquick kits together and it kept her entertained for a few years. Judging by your experience I'll keep it together for any future grandchildren hopefully some years off!

 

To the children, Dad's trains were those things Dad did in the garage that seemed to involve lots of bits of plastic, wood and metal. Now they are older they can appreciate the work that has gone into it even if they are not really interested.

 

Well done on your survival!

 

Martyn

[The Johnster]

Your 5 year old granddaughter clearly approaches things with the sort of absolutely unbreakable logic that defies argument; everything she has said about her train makes complete and immutable sense, and everybody has somewhere to sit, read comics, and stow their hats and coats, and furthermore there is plenty of coal for cooking burgers on the barbecue.  This young lady will go far.

 

Splendid girl, I like her and I've never even met her!

[peterstgermain]

For those of you with a sensitive disposition please look away now or forever cause lasting harm to your vision of this wonderful hobby

 

The following picture is for all the followers of the GWR, and any other region come to that, showing to all of us we have got it all wrong regarding train compositions.

 

This morning we were looking after my sons two children, our 5 year granddaughter asked if she could play trains on Grandads' train set........well we'll skip that one for now!!!!

Stop laughing at the back there - I can see you....

 

So I set everything up and yes chaps I had trains running over every part of the layout in the order that looked correct to me........points clicking, trains shunting, wagons moving, carriages departing all looking very prototypical to me

Well - apparently not in the eyes a 5 year old as I had left some 'bits' (her words) behind and they were getting lonely.......

 

From the elevated heights of the chair she was standing on, so she could see everything, she got me to organise a train to her liking.

 

Luckily she seemed to grasp that Grandad was not to happy in organising a triple header of loco's so she choose the 'nice one with little wheels at the front and back' - now there's a good description of a Prairie 4550 - even loco seemed to smile at that description!

(The other problem with a triple header was that Grandad had forgotten how to set one up as this little railway doesn't often see any multi loco trains!!!!!)

 

So ladies and Gentlemen here is a train organised by a 5yr old

 

S2.jpg

 

The funny part is that the Prairie actually managed to pull that lot backwards and forwards a few times before she thankfully decided to go downstairs for some sweets.....phew!!!!

 

Now for those of you who wish to run this train on your layout this is her reasoning for the set up.

 

Starting from the right.

 

Toad Gardens Van - that is where the driver sits with a large steering wheel.

Prairie                     - loco that moves everything (well she got bit right) because it has a chimney?

Carriage                  - where she and her friends sit to read their comics!

Van                         - their coats and shoes are kept in here....

Carriage                 - where Mummy and Daddy sit??

Van                        - easy you should get this one.....for Mummy and Daddies coats and shoes...of course!

Coal wagons          - to provide coal for the barbeque (I did question that one but she said they had a lot of burgers to cook......OK I got that one?)

Autocoach             -  you guessed it...... where Nanny and Grandad sit (I asked we appear not to have anywhere for our coats and shoes - answer keep them on.....OK silly question I suppose)

 

So throw all your movement plans, train set ups, timetables and knowledge away, just get a 5 year to organise it.........

 

PS......she'll be back on Thursday and wonts to play again with Grandad's train set..................hoping for a power cut that morning so we can go to the park instead!!!!!!!!

Out of the mouths of....

[vulcanbomber]

We are still recovering from a 3 week period of baby sitting. For 2 weeks we looked after a 3 & 6 year old and last week it was a 6 month old. Never mind they are great fun in small doses and they go back to school next week.

[KNP]

Auto train slowly pulling into Encombe Town with the afternoon service.

 

 

This picture is with the simpler smoke that looked (to my eye) a lot better than some of the other versions I did.

 

So I thought I would show the process I go through to get a picture I'm happy with.

 

Normal Post Focus picture taken and run through the media program to get the individual pictures, in this case 45 of them.

When put together this was the result

 

 

Obviously back scenes, doors, storage cupboards clearly seen plus the colour was a bit to bright for my liking.

 

So picture was cropped and colour/contrast/brightness 'tweaked'

 

 

Then to get rid of the unwanted areas in the background I cloned sections of the sky and building to remove them, then I added the first attempt at the smoke.

 

 

plus a few more.....

 

 

 

 

Some, at the time of preparation looked OK on the photo editing screen until I viewed them on the monitor as stand alone pictures and no......not happy so back to the drawing board.

The last one looked like the poor old loco was about to explode........it was an effort to get the feel that the smoke was billowing towards you?

 

Luckily I save as separate stages as I proceed so easy to go back a step and start again.

 

The effort I go through to get you guys a decent picture!!!!!

 

Edited March 9 by KNP

[Andrew P]

Auto train slowly pulling into Encombe Town with the afternoon service.

 

993 - smoke.jpg

 

This picture is with the simpler smoke that looked (to my eye) a lot better than some of the other versions I did.

 

So I thought I would show the process I go through to get a picture I'm happy with.

 

Normal Post Focus picture taken and run through the media program to get the individual pictures, in this case 45 of them.

When put together this was the result

 

993.jpg

 

Obviously back scenes, doors, storage cupboards clearly seen plus the colour was a bit to bright for my liking.

 

So picture was cropped and colour/contrast/brightness 'tweaked'

 

993b.jpg

 

Then to get rid of the unwanted areas in the background I cloned sections of the sky and building to remove them, then I added the first attempt at the smoke.

 

993 - smoke 1.jpg

 

plus a few more.....

 

993 - smoke 2.jpg

 

993 - smoke 3.jpg

 

993 - smoke 4.jpg

 

Some, at the time of preparation looked OK on the photo editing screen until I viewed them on the monitor as stand alone pictures and no......not happy so back to the drawing board.

The last one looked like the poor old loco was about to explode........it was an effort to get the feel that the smoke was billowing towards you?

 

Luckily I save as separate stages as I proceed so easy to go back a step and start again.

 

The effort I go through to get you guys a decent picture!!!!!

An excellent final result Kevin, and as you say, with minimal Smoke it looks so much better, please keep em coming.

[Limpley Stoker]

I agree, it's a lot of work but much appreciated - and think of all the people you are inspiring!

[KNP]

I agree, it's a lot of work but much appreciated - and think of all the people you are inspiring!

 

Thanks, it was said with tongue in cheek as I would be doing this anyway even if no one other than me saw it............

Just happy that they seem to be well received by an appreciative audience.

 

No train set playing today as we all walked down to the park and she forgot all about Grandad's trains by the time we got back.......

 

Bracket signal has been altered so both are 'on', just leaving it to thoroughly dry overnight before I fix a couple of new control rods to the altered levers and signal arm.

Will post pictures of what I did when it is finished.

[St Enodoc]

An excellent final result Kevin, and as you say, with minimal Smoke it looks so much better, please keep em coming.

I agree Andy but I have to say that fake smoke on model photos just doesn't work for me, so personally I would prefer to see 'minimal smoke' become ' no smoke'.