RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted December 31, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2019 I think most of us will have or already have seen the short video clip taken inside a fire truck while it got trapped by an advancing fire wall, I can only bow my head in appreciation of those men/women, actually bloody HEROS who are risking everything to save others. Amazing and frightening in equal measure. 1 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted December 31, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2019 44 minutes ago, boxbrownie said: I think most of us will have or already have seen the short video clip taken inside a fire truck while it got trapped by an advancing fire wall, I can only bow my head in appreciation of those men/women, actually bloody HEROS who are risking everything to save others. Amazing and frightening in equal measure. Most are unpaid volunteers and as you know, some of the fires have been going on for months. Many must be struggling with their life commitments. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrovich Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 I am assuming the armed forces are involved as well? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted December 31, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2019 2 hours ago, kevinlms said: Most are unpaid volunteers and as you know, some of the fires have been going on for months. Many must be struggling with their life commitments. Indeed, hopefully they will be amply compensated for their dedication, a word that seems inadequate really. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeysarefun Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, petrovich said: I am assuming the armed forces are involved as well? Our armed forces aren't trained for fighting bushfires but they provide logistical support - moving equipment and supplies around, evacuating the trapped, stuff like that. The Australian way has historically been the government funding fire services for towns and ciities - ie the traditional fire service - but the vastness of the bush and the remoteness of many smaller towns made funding a fire service to cover the whole place impractical so rural communities developed a network of volunteers of locals who would be trained to some level and raise money through raffles etc to buy equipment, almost a kind of dads army setup - up until the '90's many brigades including my local one were still using WW11 era converted trucks as tankers. When a fire broke out locals would down tools and tear over to the local bushfire brigade headquarters then head off on the back of the brigades tanker and on the back of utes and so on with damp cloths over their faces to hit the fire with wet sacks like in the movies. If it was a bigger fire then brigades from other areas would pitch in to help. In recent years following a few disastrous bushfire seasons the state governments have chipped in to provide modern equipment so now the rural fire services are as well equipped with tankers etc as any in the world and the fire services in each state are more professionally and centrally run but the individual brigades still rely on public donations to fund expenses, personal equipment and so on. And the firefighters are still unpaid. This self funded volunteer force has enabled the government to avoid having to provide adequate resources for fighting bushfires and has by and large worked quite well when fires were usually under control after a few days, either through the actions of the firefighters or because it would usually rain at some point. . This time though, years of drought and elevated temperatures have created these insane fires that only the non existent rain will put out. Suddenly the laziness of the governments (both parties over the years) relying on volunteers has become apparent as the volunteers commitment stretches into months. Financial problems especially are becomingan issue - the volunteers are often taking unpaid leave or have left their own businesses to fight fires, usually far from their homes and they even have to pay for the petrol they use to go to and from firegrounds.. A couple of weeks ago when this was first brought up our PM responded by saying that the volunteers wanted to be there.. Amid the barrage of critisicm that the government is not doing enough there is now a plan to compensate volunteers up to $300 a day up to a certain number of weeks. ( To put that into perspective, federal politicians can claim $273 for accommodation expenses for each night they spend in Canberra for an unlimited number of weeks,and up to $437 a night when staying in other places.....) Edited December 31, 2019 by monkeysarefun 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Sorry New Zealand for the second hand smoke. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted December 31, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2019 16 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said: Our armed forces aren't trained for fighting bushfires but they provide logistical support - moving equipment and supplies around, evacuating the trapped, stuff like that. The Australian way has historically been the government funding fire services for towns and ciities - ie the traditional fire service - but the vastness of the bush and the remoteness of many smaller towns made funding a fire service to cover the whole place impractical so rural communities developed a network of volunteers of locals who would be trained to some level and raise money through raffles etc to buy equipment, almost a kind of dads army setup - up until the '90's many brigades including my local one were still using WW11 era converted trucks as tankers. When a fire broke out locals would down tools and tear over to the local bushfire brigade headquarters then head off on the back of the brigades tanker and on the back of utes and so on with damp cloths over their faces to hit the fire with wet sacks like in the movies. If it was a bigger fire then brigades from other areas would pitch in to help. In recent years following a few disastrous bushfire seasons the state governments have chipped in to provide modern equipment so now the rural fire services are as well equipped with tankers etc as any in the world and the fire services in each state are more professionally and centrally run but the individual brigades still rely on public donations to fund expenses, personal equipment and so on. And the firefighters are still unpaid. This self funded volunteer force has enabled the government to avoid having to provide adequate resources for fighting bushfires and has by and large worked quite well when fires were usually under control after a few days, either through the actions of the firefighters or because it would usually rain at some point. . This time though, years of drought and elevated temperatures have created these insane fires that only the non existent rain will put out. Suddenly the laziness of the governments (both parties over the years) relying on volunteers has become apparent as the volunteers commitment stretches into months. Financial problems especially are becomingan issue - the volunteers are often taking unpaid leave or have left their own businesses to fight fires, usually far from their homes and they even have to pay for the petrol they use to go to and from firegrounds.. A couple of weeks ago when this was first brought up our PM responded by saying that the volunteers wanted to be there.. Amid the barrage of critisicm that the government is not doing enough there is now a plan to compensate volunteers up to $300 a day up to a certain number of weeks. ( To put that into perspective, federal politicians can claim $273 for accommodation expenses for each night they spend in Canberra for an unlimited number of weeks,and up to $437 a night when staying in other places.....) I think that your reasoning is sound as far as it goes but I think you have left out one of the biggest problems - the chronic under-management of the fuel load. Irrespective of the reasons, hazard reduction (by burning, clearing or whatever) is only taking place at a fraction of the rate necessary to safeguard fire-prone areas. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 5 hours ago, petrovich said: I am assuming the armed forces are involved as well? They aren't trained for fire fighting but army engineers can and do make firebreaks. Helicopter pilots are trained for dumping water (currently mostly navy helicopters as they are closer), search and rescue, etc. Various reconnaissance platforms can use IR for fire mapping. They provide communications where phone networks are out, heavy transport into difficult areas, medical teams, etc. As Mallacoota is still cut off they are going to be resupplied and some people evacuated by sea. HMAS Choules (ex-RFA Largs Bay) is on the way to do this. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrovich Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 47 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said: Our armed forces aren't trained for fighting bushfires but they provide logistical support - moving equipment and supplies around, evacuating the trapped, stuff like that. The Australian way has historically been the government funding fire services for towns and ciities - ie the traditional fire service - but the vastness of the bush and the remoteness of many smaller towns made funding a fire service to cover the whole place impractical so rural communities developed a network of volunteers of locals who would be trained to some level and raise money through raffles etc to buy equipment, almost a kind of dads army setup - up until the '90's many brigades including my local one were still using WW11 era converted trucks as tankers. When a fire broke out locals would down tools and tear over to the local bushfire brigade headquarters then head off on the back of the brigades tanker and on the back of utes and so on with damp cloths over their faces to hit the fire with wet sacks like in the movies. If it was a bigger fire then brigades from other areas would pitch in to help. In recent years following a few disastrous bushfire seasons the state governments have chipped in to provide modern equipment so now the rural fire services are as well equipped with tankers etc as any in the world and the fire services in each state are more professionally and centrally run but the individual brigades still rely on public donations to fund expenses, personal equipment and so on. And the firefighters are still unpaid. This self funded volunteer force has enabled the government to avoid having to provide adequate resources for fighting bushfires and has by and large worked quite well when fires were usually under control after a few days, either through the actions of the firefighters or because it would usually rain at some point. . This time though, years of drought and elevated temperatures have created these insane fires that only the non existent rain will put out. Suddenly the laziness of the governments (both parties over the years) relying on volunteers has become apparent as the volunteers commitment stretches into months. Financial problems especially are becomingan issue - the volunteers are often taking unpaid leave or have left their own businesses to fight fires, usually far from their homes and they even have to pay for the petrol they use to go to and from firegrounds.. A couple of weeks ago when this was first brought up our PM responded by saying that the volunteers wanted to be there.. Amid the barrage of critisicm that the government is not doing enough there is now a plan to compensate volunteers up to $300 a day up to a certain number of weeks. ( To put that into perspective, federal politicians can claim $273 for accommodation expenses for each night they spend in Canberra for an unlimited number of weeks,and up to $437 a night when staying in other places.....) Thanks for the clarity, I hope 2020 treats you all in a better fashion, and keep your spirits up. Regards Peter 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted January 1, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 hours ago, St Enodoc said: I think that your reasoning is sound as far as it goes but I think you have left out one of the biggest problems - the chronic under-management of the fuel load. Irrespective of the reasons, hazard reduction (by burning, clearing or whatever) is only taking place at a fraction of the rate necessary to safeguard fire-prone areas. There is a bit of that, but not least is the Federal governments almost complete denial of Climate Change, with the oft-quoted line of 'Australia only is responsible for 1.3% of global carbon emissions, so it's pointless us doing anything and wrecking our economy'. However, the cost of doing nothing at all, also has a very high cost. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted January 1, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, DavidB-AU said: They aren't trained for fire fighting but army engineers can and do make firebreaks. Helicopter pilots are trained for dumping water (currently mostly navy helicopters as they are closer), search and rescue, etc. Various reconnaissance platforms can use IR for fire mapping. They provide communications where phone networks are out, heavy transport into difficult areas, medical teams, etc. As Mallacoota is still cut off they are going to be resupplied and some people evacuated by sea. HMAS Choules (ex-RFA Largs Bay) is on the way to do this. More on Victoria's fires. https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/hundreds-huddle-in-school-as-emergency-bushfires-ravage-east-gippsland-20200101-p53o20.html ps. You should have no problem viewing these links, as most media outlets are allowing free access to bushfire information. So no firewalls (bad term, I know). Edited January 1, 2020 by kevinlms Updated info. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeysarefun Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 58 minutes ago, kevinlms said: There is a bit of that, but not least is the Federal governments almost complete denial of Climate Change, with the oft-quoted line of 'Australia only is responsible for 1.3% of global carbon emissions, so it's pointless us doing anything and wrecking our economy'. However, the cost of doing nothing at all, also has a very high cost. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted January 1, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2020 Someone had to do it! https://www.captiongenerator.com/1615842/The-Prime-Minister-returns-from-his-holidays 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 21C123 Posted January 1, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2020 hi all Yes the smoke has made it to New Zealand, the moon tonight from Wellington, and during today the sunlight was an orangey tint, though apparently more noticeable in the South Island. Roger 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted January 1, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2020 https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/starvation-event-shows-wildlife-may-need-human-help-to-survive-20200101-p53o3t.html 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 1, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2020 12 hours ago, monkeysarefun said: A couple of weeks ago when this was first brought up our PM responded by saying that the volunteers wanted to be there.. Amid the barrage of critisicm that the government is not doing enough there is now a plan to compensate volunteers up to $300 a day up to a certain number of weeks. ( To put that into perspective, federal politicians can claim $273 for accommodation expenses for each night they spend in Canberra for an unlimited number of weeks,and up to $437 a night when staying in other places.....) Well no wonder the Politicians aren’t volunteering, it would cost the government more 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikks Posted January 1, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 hours ago, kevinlms said: Someone had to do it! https://www.captiongenerator.com/1615842/The-Prime-Minister-returns-from-his-holidays Brilliant!! Mike 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeysarefun Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted January 2, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2020 On 01/01/2020 at 22:20, boxbrownie said: Well no wonder the Politicians aren’t volunteering, it would cost the government more No, this is why they are staying away! https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/go-back-to-kirribilli-morrison-heckled-by-angry-residents-in-cobargo-20200102-p53ogb.html They shouldn't really be yelling & swearing at the PM, but many get frustrated at a 'business as usual and nothing to do differently' attitude. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeysarefun Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 58 minutes ago, kevinlms said: No, this is why they are staying away! https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/go-back-to-kirribilli-morrison-heckled-by-angry-residents-in-cobargo-20200102-p53ogb.html They shouldn't really be yelling & swearing at the PM, but many get frustrated at a 'business as usual and nothing to do differently' attitude. That seems a bit unfair since he's got it all under control.. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-s-climate-policies-will-protect-environment-and-seek-to-reduce-hazard-of-fires-says-prime-minister-20200102-p53odi.html 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 hour ago, kevinlms said: No, this is why they are staying away! https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/go-back-to-kirribilli-morrison-heckled-by-angry-residents-in-cobargo-20200102-p53ogb.html They shouldn't really be yelling & swearing at the PM, but many get frustrated at a 'business as usual and nothing to do differently' attitude. Love it, properly showing their anger in the only way possible presently...........might have been more credible without the "goat on a rope" accessory 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 16 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said: That seems a bit unfair since he's got it all under control.. Mmm, somehow I doubt they will ask those who really knew what they were doing https://saltbushclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/fighting-fires.pdf 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 On 01/01/2020 at 01:33, kevinlms said: ps. You should have no problem viewing these links, as most media outlets are allowing free access to bushfire information. So no firewalls (bad term, I know). I think you mean 'paywall'... My deepest thoughts and sympathies for the current Australian plight - we are used to our (UK) politicians absconding on jollies at inopportune moments, but when your country is burning a holiday elsewhere is not a very good way to endear yourself to your countrymen and women... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 On 31/12/2019 at 23:15, DavidB-AU said: Sorry New Zealand for the second hand smoke. Not to make light of a serious subject. But that's fake as everyone knows New Zealand doesn't exist on any maps. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/all-the-maps-that-are-missing-new-zealand.html Jason 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted January 3, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2020 6 hours ago, talisman56 said: I think you mean 'paywall'... My deepest thoughts and sympathies for the current Australian plight - we are used to our (UK) politicians absconding on jollies at inopportune moments, but when your country is burning a holiday elsewhere is not a very good way to endear yourself to your countrymen and women... Um, yes of course Paywall duh! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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