SECR P Class 0-6-0T in OO Gauge from Hattons

[Wickham Green]

Yes, and the BR livery H class pulling a Pull/Push set on the Hornby stand.

You sure ? ................ seemed to be pushing when I saw it - and very gingerly at that !

[GreenGiraffe22]

Gosh people buying 6 or 7 and I'm sitting here wondering if I *really* need two aha. I have the Southern black ones on pre order. 1555 was actually based at Brighton towards the end of Southern days according to semgonline, which is perfect for my Brighton - Eastbourne ish layout, 1558 is a general 'right era/region' purchase.

[Graham_Muz]

Here is a picture or two of the DCC Sound fitted P Class running that the kind Daves at Hattons lent us to play with on the Hornby Magazine Twelve Trees Junction Layout at Warley at the weekend. Obviously being a picture you cant here the sound but I assure you it was there, and proves it can be done, and she well and quite a distance on the layout over the weekend.

 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Graham_Muz

[Garethp8873]

Gosh people buying 6 or 7 and I'm sitting here wondering if I *really* need two aha. I have the Southern black ones on pre order. 1555 was actually based at Brighton towards the end of Southern days according to semgonline, which is perfect for my Brighton - Eastbourne ish layout, 1558 is a general 'right era/region' purchase.

 

Whilst this off subject but has slight relevance, I may not have ordered 6 or 7 P Classes, but because I couldn't decide on which ModelRail/Rapido LNER Trams to order, I went ahead and all ordered all five LNER versions...!!

 

Do I need all five LNER liveries...? Maybe not but I couldn't decide...

Edited November 27, 2017 by Garethp8873

[GreenGiraffe22]

Whilst this off subject but has slight relevance, I may not have ordered 6 or 7 P Classes, but because I couldn't decide on which ModelRail/Rapido LNER Trams to order, I went ahead and all ordered all five LNER versions...!!

 

Do I need all five LNER liveries...? Maybe not but I couldn't decide...

Honestly, if I had the funds, I'd probably collect anything and everything, but I don't so it's *mostly* to a strict era/region, I do use the war as an excuse to have for example a Merchant Navy heading along the South East coast haha, I don't know of any took troops down to Dover but mine does! Anyway, slipping off topic now.

 

At least the Southern Black ones are less likely to sell out if I decide I just want one for now, one of the best things about modelling the war is that Southern Black liveried models nearly always end up heavily reduced

[No Decorum]

I have to admire the courage of the people who have ordered half a dozen or so. Hatton’s Dave has done a brilliant job of considering people’s concerns about various features of models and dealing with them. The models also look superb but we haven’t seen a production model running yet. Just in case, I’ve ordered two which are likely to be the most popular and, if they run well, I shall follow with two more and some Barlcays.

[tender]

The models also look superb but we haven’t seen a production model running yet.

See post 378, I guess quite a few people saw this running at Warley, me included.

[Captain Kernow]

I have to admire the courage of the people who have ordered half a dozen or so.

Never mind their courage, admire their bank balance!!

[PaulRhB]

Never mind their courage, admire their bank balance!!

Yeah you could almost buy two of those HSB tanks for six of those hat, coat says the man with three

 

I have to admit it looks very good and the mech seems very good too so really looking forward to 2018.

[GreenGiraffe22]

I don't know how prototypical it would be but having two top and tailing or double heading Bachmann 's steam crane would make for interesting running, would one manage a crane on its own in real life?

[Wickham Green]

I don't know how prototypical it would be but having two top and tailing or double heading Bachmann 's steam crane would make for interesting running, would one manage a crane on its own in real life?

Don't forget the crane would have been self propelled ........ I think I know which would win a tug of war !

[Edwardian]

I have to admire the courage of the people who have ordered half a dozen or so. Hatton’s Dave has done a brilliant job of considering people’s concerns about various features of models and dealing with them. The models also look superb but we haven’t seen a production model running yet. Just in case, I’ve ordered two which are likely to be the most popular and, if they run well, I shall follow with two more and some Barlcays.

 

I don't think the modern buffers and riveted smoke box wrapper issues in the context of the 1909/10-1911 periods quoted have been addressed by the commissioner. Doesn't bother me, because I will make the necessary corrections to my pair when they arrive, but the answering of questions can be selective than you suggest in my experience!

[No Decorum]

I don't think the modern buffers and riveted smoke box wrapper issues in the context of the 1909/10-1911 periods quoted have been addressed by the commissioner. Doesn't bother me, because I will make the necessary corrections to my pair when they arrive, but the answering of questions can be selective than you suggest in my experience!

I’m afraid I haven’t expressed myself clearly yet again. What I had in mind were features such as coreless motors and difficulty of disassembly, which have been much criticised in other models. Whilst these have been allowed for in the specification, these particular models have been announced when development was well under way, when it might be difficult to make changes to accommodate the observations from the experts here. I’m still very much looking forward to them.

[Pre Grouping fan]

I don't think the modern buffers and riveted smoke box wrapper issues in the context of the 1909/10-1911 periods quoted have been addressed by the commissioner. Doesn't bother me, because I will make the necessary corrections to my pair when they arrive, but the answering of questions can be selective than you suggest in my experience!

They are accurate to the preserved examples even though they are listed as being of the period. Im sure proper pre grouping variations will be available in due course

[Wickham Green]

They are accurate to the preserved examples even though they are listed as being of the period. Im sure proper pre grouping variations will be available in due course

Indeed, look back at page 1 of this thread and you'll see that versions 01 & 02 are clearly marked 'as preserved' so Southern Railway buffers ( 'modern' if you insist !!?! ) are correct !

[John M Upton]

Haul a 45 ton steam crane with a 0P rating?  They could barely haul a couple of wagons uphill!!!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... would one manage a crane on its own in real life?

 

Yes, and with a coach as riding van for the crew, and tool van or two, on level track. Not very fast at all though, because you would exhaust the steam supply quickly.

 

If we estimate such a total ensemble with the engine at 200 ton, it will theoretically stall on a 1 in 100. That ls where the trouble might be for a modest loco. Trying to get such a thing moving on the typically poor track of a loco depot siding, which is poorly profiled, might well defeat it; insufficient grunt to move it out of 'the hole' it is in...

 

So there's the possibility of 'No'.

[GreenGiraffe22]

Yes, and with a coach as riding van for the crew, and tool van or two, on level track. Not very fast at all though, because you would exhaust the steam supply quickly.

 

If we estimate such a total ensemble with the engine at 200 ton, it will theoretically stall on a 1 in 100. That ls where the trouble might be for a modest loco. Trying to get such a thing moving on the typically poor track of a loco depot siding, which is poorly profiled, might well defeat it; insufficient grunt to move it out of 'the hole' it is in...

 

So there's the possibility of 'No'.

Interesting answer, thank you

[Edwardian]

They are accurate to the preserved examples even though they are listed as being of the period. Im sure proper pre grouping variations will be available in due course

 

Indeed, look back at page 1 of this thread and you'll see that versions 01 & 02 are clearly marked 'as preserved' so Southern Railway buffers ( 'modern' if you insist !!?! ) are correct !

 

For the straightness of the record, Hattons have presented the 2 Wainwright lined models as both "as preserved", which I believe is correct, and as "1909-11" or "1910-11", as the case may be, which is not correct. Wickham Green, I direct you to post #3 on page 1, partly reproduced below.

 

I am not moaning about this, I'm too used to manufacturers producing "as preserved" versions in pre-Grouping liveries in preference to pre-Grouping "in-service" models, it's just what they do, and besides, this ain't the place to indulge in speaking Truth to Power, 'cos you're pretty damn powerless, I've found.  Mind you, you have to laugh at the way some people react to factual information. There is a noted Rapper who is funding a space rocket to prove the earth is, indeed, flat.  I would have thought that was obvious, but still ... 

 

So, let's be clear, I am being entirely positive about these models, to the point of having both lined green versions on pre-order. 

 

I don't think, though, that we are likely to see accurate pre-Grouping fully lined versions in due course.  Hattons had the choice to do this as it has the correct tooling for the early condition locos, but common sense suggests to me that they have reckoned that they won't sell four versions in fully lined Wainwright green in sufficient quantities, and, so, they've hedged by using the more modern version tooling with the ostensibly pre-Grouping livery.  Manufacturers cannot cater for every version we may want, and so this seems to be a sensible commercial compromise from Hattons' point of view.

 

The answer is simple, of course; simply trim the smokebox rivets off and fit the correct pattern of buffers, which are obtainable as spares from SE Finecast.

 

However, once I've done that, I will moan if the correct livery/tooling combinations for 1909-1911 condition is released subsequently, but I am not expecting that!

 

Very much looking forward to receiving a pair of these in due course.  Again, well done Hattons!

 

Liveries:

 

H4-P-01 178 in SE&CR lined green 1910-1911 & as preserved

 

H4-P-02 753 in SE&CR lined green 1909-1911 & as preserved

Edited November 29, 2017 by Edwardian

[Wickham Green]

For the straightness of the record, Hattons have presented the 2 Wainwright lined models as both "as preserved", which I believe is correct, and as "1909-11" or "1910-11", as the case may be, which is not correct. Wickham Green, I direct you to post #3 on page 1, partly reproduced below.

 

Liveries:

 

H4-P-01 178 in SE&CR lined green 1910-1911 & as preserved

 

 

H4-P-02 753 in SE&CR lined green 1909-1911 & as preserved

Exactly : the words "lined green 1910-1911" and "lined green 1909-1911" come between the words "Liveries" and "as preserved" ......... so these models clearly represent AS PRESERVED locomotives carrying LIVERIES from those particular dates ( and presumably carried in preservation at some later date ) ................. so what's the problem ?

[Pre Grouping fan]

Well to be totally accurate to the era, they should have the bottle style buffers

[Edwardian]

Exactly : the words "lined green 1910-1911" and "lined green 1909-1911" come between the words "Liveries" and "as preserved" ......... so these models clearly represent AS PRESERVED locomotives carrying LIVERIES from those particular dates ( and presumably carried in preservation at some later date ) ................. so what's the problem ?

 

There is no problem, as I thought I had made clear.  The models can only represent the as preserved condition, though the description "178 in SE&CR lined green 1910-1911 & as preserved" evidently suggests something different to you than it does to me.  

 

It does not follow that there is a problem, however; the answer is simply to apply minor correctives to make a more accurate pre-Grouping representation of the class.  As this can be done without compromising the cosmetic finish of the lined green areas, I would have thought any self-respecting modeller would simply pick up his or her scalpel and just crack on, which is what I intend to do.

 

Nothing to see here, move along ...

[Edwardian]

Well to be totally accurate to the era, they should have the bottle style buffers

 

Which, as SE Finecast supply spare castings, is presumably not a problem.  I did ask Hattons Dave if Hattons would consider supplying alternative buffers, but, as the smokebox wrapper would need minor surgery too, on reflection, I hardly think it matters.

 

I am genuinely interested in how people use attractive releases such as these.  Are they run on layouts?  If so, are they run as a preserved period loco, as a pre-Grouping loco, or simply for the joy of it, with no more complicated justification that Rule No.1? 

 

Half the fun of any release is contemplating what one might do with, or, indeed, to it.

 

I look forward to acquiring a brace.

[Skinnylinny]

I am genuinely interested in how people use attractive releases such as these.  Are they run on layouts?  If so, are they run as a preserved period loco, as a pre-Grouping loco, or simply for the joy of it, with no more complicated justification that Rule No.1? 

I'm still trying to talk myself out of buying one of these. My main period for my layout is 1900-1910. I can *just* about squeeze a small-tank no. 178 in at the end of that period if I assume that it would have escaped down a jointly-operated branchline. Only trouble will be finding suitable rolling stock, unless I assume it would have been seen with two or three wagons and a brake (and I don't know where I can find an SECR brake van kit that isn't a dancehall - too modern to go with the pretty green livery!)

[Tim Dubya]

Well being a BR(S) south western modeller, I have no problems fitting in such a beautiful loco from the Chatham

 

Oh and a P was the first steam loco I had a ride behind when it was at Cranmore on the East Somerset.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Tim Dubya