OO gauge Crowdfunded APT-P (Warley announcement)

[njee20]

That’s still just SWIFT payments, which are not the normal way of paying money, virtually unheard of for domestic currency payments and are still not how PayPal works. PayPal don’t use direct debits either, and their transactions are nearly always instant even if not taken from a balance they’re holding. Some of their payments are Continuous Payment Authorities - mainly subscription payments.

 

No need to get more technical, as you say it’s totally OT, so we can leave it there. I work for a lending company, so pretty au fait with how money is transferred.

 

Dragging us back on topic... Dave - you said above about the n gauge 3D models, have you had any feedback about the ‘simpler’ model from the factory? Feel free to answer in the n gauge thread, this is just far more active!

[adb968008]

That’s still just SWIFT payments, which are not the normal way of paying money, virtually unheard of for domestic currency payments and are still not how PayPal works. PayPal don’t use direct debits either, and their transactions are nearly always instant even if not taken from a balance they’re holding. Some of their payments are Continuous Payment Authorities - mainly subscription payments.

No need to get more technical, as you say it’s totally OT, so we can leave it there. I work for a lending company, so pretty au fait with how money is transferred.

Dragging us back on topic... Dave - you said above about the n gauge 3D models, have you had any feedback about the ‘simpler’ model from the factory? Feel free to answer in the n gauge thread, this is just far more active!

Direct quote from PayPal...

 

The direct debit is set up and only used if you want to send payment through your PayPal account from your bank account. Also yes, the amount showing the monthly fee is only based on the recent transaction that you have made. This isn't a recurring payment.

 

https://www.paypal.com/gb/smarthelp/article/how-do-i-add-my-bank-account-to-my-paypal-account-faq686

 

It uses the Direct Debit process,even for one time bank transactions.

 

Agreed, time to move on.

Edited July 18, 2018 by adb968008

[damo2929]

Dave 

 

whats happening with the paypal refund -> clicksafe as I haven't seen any thing emailed or paypal confirming anything.

 

Also will you be sending updated invoices to update the change to my order where I have increase the unit count?

[BR(S)]

Dave 

 

whats happening with the paypal refund -> clicksafe as I haven't seen any thing emailed or paypal confirming anything

Dave's said on the Class 92 thread this morning that he hopes the new system will be in place this weekend and PayPal refunds will start on Monday.

[eddie an engine]

May I ask if anyone here has received a refund, or alternatively made a payment through the new channel or had any kind of communication from DJModels (apart from their requests for further orders in other threads)

 

I speak as a perhaps overly cautious 'want to be' customer but as one who has not received any contact from the seller and who's agent (see below) appears to be in limbo as well.

 

Other indications do not portend glad tidings. At the time of writing DJModels accounts still are not received by companies house.

 

Perhaps someone could put an encouraging positive spin on this? Perhaps he is simply busy?

 

Hi John

I don't know what's happening i wish i could answer your question i've had no update from dave.

I have forwarded this email to Dave Jones for you.

 

Regards

Mick  

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 12:13 PM, John Edwards <xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Dear Michael,

I am increasingly concerned about this transaction and dispite waiting for some time I am not any more comfortable.

 

Your reply suggests that Durham Trains have nothing to do with this model, at least contractually. I have not received any contact from DJ Models whatsoever.

I note that postings have been made on public forums stating that refunds are being made to those who have paid already via paypal, but that those payments are being delayed by Paypal for unspecified reasons. Checking with companies house no accounts have yet been received, yet they have received enough information to discontinue strike-off action. The document received is meaningless in terms of the companies financial situation and the lack of any accounts being submitted do not suggest the actions of a company with nothing to hide.

 

I regret that this does not reflect well on Durham Trains as the facilitators of this scheme and unless I receive a constructive response from Durham trains or DJ models please consider my order null and void.

 

Yours Sincearly

John Edwards.

 

Sent:

 Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 4:18 PM

From:

 "michael worrall" <xxxxxxxxxxx>

To:

 "John Edwards" <xxxxxxxxxxx>

Subject:

 Re: Order Confirmation No: 2406

Hi John

Thanks for your email. The reason for the pay-pal being frozen is that they were accusing dave as there was so much money going in then out ie to pay for scanning. So Dave Jones has spoke with lloyds explaining what's happened and are happy to open an account were future payments are paid into but takes time to link it with Daves site which i know he is rebuilding in order to take future payments. As regards the first payment Dave will send out the invoices as soon as possible and rest assured there is not a problem with the future of the APT-P if there was i would hope Dave Jones would let me know.

 

Regards

Mick

 

On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 3:24 PM, John Edwards <xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Dear Sirs,

I placed an order yesterday for two APT units and received a prompt confirmation from you.

I have not yet had any request for payment from yourselves or from 'DJModels'. 

 

This morning i was distressed to read that there is now a compulsory strike off order in force against DJModels Ltd. With this recent development in addition to their paypal account being frozen for money laundering investigation (as stated by the owner of DJM on a public website), I am very concerned about the future of this project.

 

Whilst have not yet paid any monies, and only stand to loose a model which I desire, there is a large sum due to be paid, with, I assume an invoice due for part of this imminently. Therefore I am writing to you in your capacity of agent for DJM (although your order acknowledgement suggests my contract is with yourselves, regardless of whom is paid) to ask for re-assurance that you consider DJModels a safe and reliable company to do business with, and also to ask what steps you as agent/promotor have taken to ensure that monies paid are to be used for the purposes stated.

 

Yours Sincearly

 

John Edwards.

 

Sent:

 Friday, June 29, 2018 at 10:44 AM

From:

 "Durham Trains of Stanley" <sxxxxxxxxxx>

To:xxxxxxxxxxx

Subject:

 Order Confirmation No: 2406

Order Confirmation from Durham Trains of Stanley

John Edwards

Thanks for shopping with us today!

The following are the details of your order.

------------------------------------------------------

Order Number: 2406

Date Ordered: Friday 29 June, 2018

Detailed Invoice:

http://durhamtrainsofstanley.co.uk/my_store/index.php?main_page=account_history_info&order_id=2406

Products

------------------------------------------------------

2 x APT-P DJM-APT-OO-0002 (5 car set) (DJM-APT-OO-0002) = £0.00

------------------------------------------------------

Sub-Total: £0.00

Store Pickup (Walk In): £0.00

Total: £0.00

Delivery Address

------------------------------------------------------

John Edwards

XXXXXXX

XXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXXX

United Kingdom

Billing Address

------------------------------------------------------

John Edwards

XXXXXX

XXXXXX

XXXXXXXXX

United Kingdom

Payment Method

------------------------------------------------------

Gift Certificate/Coupon

-----

This email address was given to us by you or by one of our customers. If you

feel that you have received this email in error, please send an email to

mick@durhamtrainsofstanley.co

.uk

-----

Copyright © 2018 Durham Trains of Stanley. Powered by Zen Cart

This email is sent in accordance with the US CAN-SPAM Law in effect

01/01/2004. Removal requests can be sent to this address and will be honored

and respected.

[RedgateModels]

Dave's said on the Class 92 thread this morning that he hopes the new system will be in place this weekend and PayPal refunds will start on Monday.

 

Did you not see the post immediately above yours eddie?

Edited July 20, 2018 by RedgateModels

[DJM Dave]

Did you not see the post immediately above yours eddie?

I'm hoping that the web site revamp and the e-commerce section will come on line this weekend with the Paypal refunds either over the weekend or very early next week.

 

This has been all been explained to those that have ordered, ordered and not been invoiced, and to those that have not ordered.

Nothing has been held back from the crowdfunders, even at the scanning party where it was face to face.

 

Sometimes things take time, and are out of what i would see as 'sensible control' my end.

The light is at the end of the tunnel however.

[eddie an engine]

Yes, and again words found in many postings such as 'luck' are used. Hardly an affirmative statement.

When, in response to a legal requirement which has failed to be met the following promise was posted some weeks ago, using the word 'should'

 

 

The accounts should be formalised and back in shape with C.H. over this weekend. 
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135385-djmodels-companies-house-strike-off-notification-content/?p=3216606

I hope you will excuse my curiosity on the substance of that statement.

It is a fact that the accounts remain overdue some weeks later, instead a document with little meaning was filed, thereby demonstrating was still trading and so prevented off the strike-off action. Forgive me if I find that also curious.

 

I want this to succeed, however there are many curious elements to the DJModels way of doing business which remain unexplained by the company officers.

Edited July 20, 2018 by eddie an engine

[RedgateModels]

The light is at the end of the tunnel however.

 

Unless it's someone that ventured out from under their bridge with a torch

Edited July 20, 2018 by RedgateModels

[eddie an engine]

This has been all been explained to those that have ordered, ordered and not been invoiced, and to those that have not ordered.

Nothing has been held back from the crowdfunders, even at the scanning party where it was face to face.

 

 

As one of those referenced by the above; No you have not explained, to me at least, nor apparently to Durham Trains of Stanley who apparently forwarded my email to you, and presumably my order as well.

[DJM Dave]

As one of those referenced by the above; No you have not explained, to me at least, nor apparently to Durham Trains of Stanley who apparently forwarded my email to you, and presumably my order as well.

Having just this minute put the phone down on a conversation to Michale Worrall at DToS, he confirms he knew all about this, and was also present in June when this was all being explained to crowdfunders at the scanning party.

[DJM Dave]

This suggestion is something that all parties involved, know to be an untruth, Mr Jones.

For everyone's information i have just resent / forwarded the confirmation of order, and explanation letter i sent to this gentleman within 24 hours of receiving his order from DToS, and i'm sure DToS will be along to put their case soon.

[MICHAELWORRALL]

Can i just add, that although i may not have told everyone, the exact situation regarding DJM and his Paypal problems (there would be a lot to phone or mail anyway, and the web site here is much better for that), that i do and did know of the situation prior to the scanning at Crewe.

 

It may have been an assumption on my behalf that everyone knew, but nothing was held back on purpose, and the fact that we are not taking money at present because of this should not present anyone with a problem if they are not out of pocket.

 

Regards

Mick

[Colin_McLeod]

Dave I suggest you either light a big fire under your accountant to get those accounts sent to Companies House PDQ or pop them in the post yourself in time for tomorrow's collection otherwise credibility will be tarnished. Your credibility and CH should both take precedence over everything else until the accounts are correctly lodged.

 

When I get my refund and new invoice AND when CH have your accounts for the year ended 31st July 2017 I will be happy to make the new payment.

[DJM Dave]

Hi Colin,

 

lots of changes here recently..... web site, e-commerce, advertising and so forth.

 

New accountant got taken on today, and will have the accounts sorted for either tomorrow, or Sunday i believe.

 

like i said, lots of changes.... some you'll all readily see, some you wont, but will make the front of house handling and the behind the scenes stuff much easier for me.

I did contemplate a step away from RMWeb as well, but i'm not sure it would be beneficial, besides i love you guys! (yes, really!)

 

Heck i realised a couple of days ago, i havn't been on a pure train watching day out for over a year. lots of new liveries, loco's (yet to see an 88), and EMU's. That will have to change also.

 

It's a strange place i find myself in right now, but one that has evolved completely this last couple of months.

Hopefully that will shine through in the coming weeks, months and years.

 

One thing i guarantee though, it wont diminish my love for this wonderful hobby of ours.

cheers

Dave

[dogbox321]

Hi Colin,

 

lots of changes here recently..... web site, e-commerce, advertising and so forth.

 

New accountant got taken on today, and will have the accounts sorted for either tomorrow, or Sunday i believe.

 

like i said, lots of changes.... some you'll all readily see, some you wont, but will make the front of house handling and the behind the scenes stuff much easier for me.

I did contemplate a step away from RMWeb as well, but i'm not sure it would be beneficial, besides i love you guys! (yes, really!)

 

Heck i realised a couple of days ago, i havn't been on a pure train watching day out for over a year. lots of new liveries, loco's (yet to see an 88), and EMU's. That will have to change also.

 

It's a strange place i find myself in right now, but one that has evolved completely this last couple of months.

Hopefully that will shine through in the coming weeks, months and years.

 

One thing i guarantee though, it wont diminish my love for this wonderful hobby of ours.

cheers

Dave

 

Dave, as I have stated before - nobody is wonderful at everything, and perfect all the time.  Running a business is a huge thing - and perhaps you need assistance to support you in areas where you are not so strong. How many MBA graduates could go and design an APT?  What I am saying is, be honest with yourself and get help to assist your weaknesses.

 

Regards your take on RMweb - then I think its a delicate balance.  Many of your supporters are on here, so its an excellent way to communicate, and drum up support for your projects.  It also gives people up to the minute "News", and can assist you by pulling together a great pool of knowledge to aid you in producing the best models possible.  But, on the negative - then I can see that checking the topics could take considerable time, and with the issues you have had recently, some comments can be counter productive.  Only you can decide what marketing channels you use, and whether the pros outweigh the cons.  Personally, I would say its useful, but like anything - in moderation.

 

Don't beat yourself up, but learn.  As I always say - anyone can make a mistake once, but if you make the same one twice....

 

Likewise - Actions speak louder than words, so please sort all your recent issues out, "once and for all", so you can use your talents to get on with designing and producing an APT that truly is a very special model.  Make the APT the "Flagship" of what DJM stands for - and that will be what people will be talking about. 

 

Best Regards,

 

C.

[7APT7]

But some PayPal refunds are instant, others are held for a period before being released (often 7 days) and it’s not simply a delay in posting the transaction.

 

SWIFT payments are for international transactions, and aren’t how PayPal transfer payments.

 

Hi njee20

 

From memory, and a conversation I had with PayPal at the time when I was new to PayPal, if you had less than 50 transactions within PayPal, then PayPal withheld back the money from being transferred instantly, same with new eBayer's and PayPal combined, with LESS >50 feedback on buying/selling on eBay, then the money again would be withheld for a short time, 7 days like you said, even though the payment is often made instantly to the person you are buying from, even though you don't see that on your account you may see 'Payment Pending' even though the payment as already been paid.

 

I cant say I have to wait now and all payments are instantly transferred.

 

Regards

Jamie

[Colin_McLeod]

Dave I am glad to hear that you have your new accountant sorted and as Dogbox321 says, don't be afraid to buy in help where you need it. You want DJM Models to be both fun and a successful business and as it has grown so large it can no longer be run as a "one man band". Paid help will give you more time; will fill in any gaps in your own skills; and although it will be a cost it will, with the right people make your business more successful.

 

Best wishes

 

Colin

[DavidH]

New accountant got taken on today, and will have the accounts sorted for either tomorrow, or Sunday i believe.

 

 

So when on 30 June (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135385-djmodels-companies-house-strike-off-notification-content/&do=findComment&comment=3216747) you said, " I've just spoken to the accountant (yes on a Saturday) and the info required by HMRC will be filed today, possibly by mid afternoon", this previous accountant let you down? Not a very good accountant it seems.

[Covkid]

So when on 30 June (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135385-djmodels-companies-house-strike-off-notification-content/&do=findComment&comment=3216747) you said, " I've just spoken to the accountant (yes on a Saturday) and the info required by HMRC will be filed today, possibly by mid afternoon", this previous accountant let you down? Not a very good accountant it seems.

 

Perhaps that is why Dave was able to get that accountant on a Saturday.  I bet few work weekends !!

 

Here's hoping you turn the corner Dave and get some organisation into DJM. Might feel awkward to you but perhaps slimming options down to maybe two or three.

 

If I were to offer an RTR APT-P It would be a 5 car and a 7 car fairly bog standard but quality product.  I would have a number of plain extra cars produced but not retailed but would offer a premium / custom service of extra cars, internal lighting and different numbers and custom refinishing for those who were prepared to pay for it.  

[Colin_McLeod]

Covkid I would leave things as they are. Dave gave a number of options and the crowdfunders have made their choices based on them. Changing the menu after the first course has been paid for and eaten would not endear anybody.

[dogbox321]

Perhaps that is why Dave was able to get that accountant on a Saturday.  I bet few work weekends !!

 

Here's hoping you turn the corner Dave and get some organisation into DJM. Might feel awkward to you but perhaps slimming options down to maybe two or three.

 

If I were to offer an RTR APT-P It would be a 5 car and a 7 car fairly bog standard but quality product.  I would have a number of plain extra cars produced but not retailed but would offer a premium / custom service of extra cars, internal lighting and different numbers and custom refinishing for those who were prepared to pay for it.  

 

As per Colin - think its a little late in the day to change things.  5 and 7 Car options have been offered. 

 

As per another thread regarding Rapido, the market is heading towards the high end regards Detail and Spec.  Hattons Class 66 etc., is continued evidence of this.  Without a good specification, I don't honestly believe people would have gone for this model.  Likewise premium/custom cars would have added lots of cost regarding the refinishing and changes to do some coaches with and without lights.  

 

I think its just time for Dave to get on and design the APT, and just keep us updated with major developments......

 

Regards,

 

C.

[LongRail]

I meet Dave at the scanning party and hope we can all get behind this project and not keep on trying to pick holes in a project that’s is going to deliver a quality APT something I am sure a lot of people have wanted for a long time. Without people like Dave and others like Cavalex models we would be offered the choice of different models that are coming out.

Edited July 21, 2018 by LongRail

[njee20]

if you had less than 50 transactions within PayPal, then PayPal withheld back the money from being transferred instantly, same with new eBayer's and PayPal combined, with LESS >50 feedback on buying/selling on eBay, then the money again would be withheld for a short time, 7 days like you said, even though the payment is often made instantly to the person you are buying from, even though you don't see that on your account you may see 'Payment Pending' even though the payment as already been paid.

Have had over £100k through my account, which is verified, as was the person giving the refund, this was a non eBay transaction. It’ll be interesting to see when Dave does all the refunds - hopefully they’ll all be instant, for his sake and for everyone else’s! Reinforces his decision to use a different payment provider too.

[delticfan]

Sorry for going over old ground but I’ve been enjoying the sun for the last few weeks. What are we meant to do with the first instalment of money which we paid, read a few mails sounds a bit complicated.